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  #21  
Old 02-18-2010, 08:33 AM
SoSideways SoSideways is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfellow View Post
I think Epstein is talking more about the Pro's with 450hp+ cars and 255+ size rear tires from Formula D.
If you must know, I was referring to Stewart Leask's conversation with Russell on ziptied, and they both got their Formula D licenses last year, so technically speaking, they are "pros" now.

They were talking about having more forward bite coming out of corners, Stew with his LS1 S13 and Russell with his 300 or 400 hp decent sized turbo on his SR.

They mentioned seeing massive toe in on some of the other pro guys' cars' rear wheels, IIRC they mentioned Hubinette's Viper had it, and I think they mentioned that Rhys Millen had it on his Solstice or something too, and some other cars on the pro circuit.

I'm not talking about Joe Schmoe with his old beat up POS S13 w/ Home Depot Racing parts.
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  #22  
Old 02-18-2010, 08:42 AM
jmauld jmauld is offline
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Massive toe-in helps with stability, right? Really doesn't have anything to do with grip, from what I understand.
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  #23  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:11 AM
SoSideways SoSideways is offline
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From what I understand, toe in for rear wheels will promote stability in a corner, whereas toe out will make the car tail happy and squirrelly.

Having that stability will allow the guys to put the power down as they can roll onto the throttle more steadily instead of having to keep lifting.

I might have not conveyed what I was trying to say in a very eloquent manner... just finished my cup of joe, but I'm still tired as hell and thus my thought process might be a tad off lol
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  #24  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:11 AM
logr logr is offline
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From what I have been taught (by serious vette guys) extra toe helps forward bite tremendously (not sure of the why). I was wondering about lowering the toe pivot on the spindle for that very purpose. It seems that having the toe pivot lower than the original spot while keeping the others original would keep toe more neutral (where you set it) and yet camber would gain lots due to being higher in the range (shorter arms).
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2010, 10:04 AM
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CodyAce CodyAce is offline
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I've always run slight toe in on the rear of my car (zero up front) and that really seemed to help the car's predictability out of corners. As mentioned above, the Vette guys suggested this 'trip to me'. Seems to have worked well.

BUt I"m still somewhat confused by those graphs, as in what would be more preferable? Would the 8.25 Length really be best, as it provides good middle of the road/up and down graphing, or would the 8.00 with the elongated (flatter) curve be better?
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  #26  
Old 02-18-2010, 10:42 AM
SoSideways SoSideways is offline
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Depends on if you want some toe in/out change.

Looks like 8.5" traction rod length would give you like virtually no change in toe, even with 1" up or down travel.

If you want toe out under compression, then looks like shortening the traction rod would be the ticket.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2010, 01:47 PM
Gigapunk Gigapunk is offline
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I need some back to basics on desirable toe changes. I remember hearing somewhere that you NEVER want toe out in the rear. Is this accurate?
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  #28  
Old 02-18-2010, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigapunk View Post
I need some back to basics on desirable toe changes. I remember hearing somewhere that you NEVER want toe out in the rear. Is this accurate?
This is what I'm more curious in. THe graphs are certainly understandable, but really understanding the pro/con of toe in regard to my setup is what I'd love to know more about. I wasn't sure how to appropriately type it out hehe. Again I was told that a tad bit of toe in would help reduce oversteer, something which I find desirable in a quick spooling turbo car.

Edit: 8.25 length, and 12.25 RUCA length seems most appealing to me then for best setup, and elast amount of oversteer.

Last edited by CodyAce; 02-18-2010 at 02:29 PM..
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2010, 02:39 PM
jmauld jmauld is offline
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So, how would a longer rear control arm effect this? If one wanted to make all of the arms longer by an inch and run higher offset wheels (effectively moving the entire hub out by an inch). I'm guessing that traction rod would kill that idea, due to it being at a bad angle?
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  #30  
Old 02-18-2010, 02:41 PM
SoSideways SoSideways is offline
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Um...

Your traction rod will just also have to be lengthened, and once you do, it will be at a lower angle, and maybe it'll shorten slower.

I am going to guess that the curves would look much different than what Epstein posted.
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