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  • Time Attack/Track build advise

    Interesting conversation had with some of my friends. I would like a real discussion; ie trolls need not apply please. If you were looking to build a dedicated track/Time Attack car, what route and why would you go that way?

    350z
    The aftermarket support for the z is obviously huge and has the advantage of 20+ yrs of chassis improvement? N/A keeps it affordable.

    S14 KA-T
    S14 with the KA-T allows for bigger displacement and also cheap if you find yourself in need of replacing the motor.

    S14 SR
    SR20 is just proven and a perfect connection with the s14? Drift tax on parts and body?

    I'm flirting with the idea of running Nissan challenge group 4 and move my way through the groups as I upgrade. Thank you so much in advance for your help.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  • #2
    Z33 chassis doesn't really have many advantages over a "max effort" S-chassis in handling. It's also expensive to remove squishy bushings from a Z33's suspension, so dollar per dollar, the S chassis is superior.


    KA-T can work, but I think at higher power levels and/or extended track usage, it just isn't as reliable as an SR. The factory engineering does help the SR survive - my 2 cents. Build cost depends on power, but anything behind a mild KA-T setup with a stock block doesn't seem reliable when really really leaning on it on the whole.



    S14 SR - good option, and honestly pretty reliable if you don't want to make crazy power. Build cost depends on power.
    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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    • #3
      Interested in buying an S14 SR? I've been toying with the idea of selling mine recently. I love the thing, but just feel like life is pulling me away from racing lately.

      Heck, I even have a cheap Tahoe and trailer I'd sell at the same time lol.
      97 Kouki SR 240

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      • #4
        As much as I like the Z33 and would like to run one in the future, it is also a pig. I race against them in my S14 with the same motor and they can't hang because I'm easily, at the very least, 300lbs lighter than them in race trim. Something to consider.

        With that said, I'm a huge fan of the engine for proper racing (any good NA engine for that matter). It's rock solid reliable and will give you fewer teething issues than any FI setup, especially a KA-T. I'd definitely go Z33 over an S-chassis with a KA anything. It also helps that Z33's are almost becoming cheaper than S-chassis.

        Z33's should have better suspension geometry and should put power down better, but in the right hands a Mac Strut is more than capable and you can get an S14 rear to put the power down well with all the information out there. Z33 can fit some monster rubber without chopping up the wheel wells though.

        1. Z33/S14 SR
        2. S14 KA-T
        Core4 Motorsports
        CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
        S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

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        • #5
          Money wise, you can buy a relatively cheap Z and fix all of the weak links and be faster day 1 than an S14 simply because of the S-chassis drift tax. the Z chassis are still depreciating and are down to $1000-1500 at auction whereas the S chassis are pretty much unavailable at auction and a gutted shell is $3000 here.. people are stupid.

          it also depends on how much you want to modify the car. Take a look at the 370Zs currently running in World Challenge TC class. they have basic bolt-ons for the most part and are considerably faster than most 240s I've seen that are on the same overall budget.
          The biggest thing I see is 20 yrs of chassis /suspension development, a wider stance, and ability to put more tire on the ground. I've been on track with a few good drivers in Zs with basic mods and they were cornering faster on street tires than I was on Hoosiers.
          Originally posted by SoSideways
          I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
          '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
          '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
            Money wise, you can buy a relatively cheap Z and fix all of the weak links and be faster day 1 than an S14 simply because of the S-chassis drift tax. the Z chassis are still depreciating and are down to $1000-1500 at auction whereas the S chassis are pretty much unavailable at auction and a gutted shell is $3000 here.. people are stupid.

            it also depends on how much you want to modify the car. Take a look at the 370Zs currently running in World Challenge TC class. they have basic bolt-ons for the most part and are considerably faster than most 240s I've seen that are on the same overall budget.
            The biggest thing I see is 20 yrs of chassis /suspension development, a wider stance, and ability to put more tire on the ground. I've been on track with a few good drivers in Zs with basic mods and they were cornering faster on street tires than I was on Hoosiers.
            Those Z34s in WC are no where near stock. A stock 370Z on track is absolutely horrible above 8/10ths. ABS programming is horribly scary with a bunch of safety issues, and they fuel starve badly on right handers which costs $$$$$$$ to fix. A stock 370Z on R-comps can only do about 8 laps before starving after a FULL fill-up.

            Z33s that are decent for tracking are still pretty pricey. VQ35HR cars are still going for ridiculous premiums, and the early DE cars have lots of transmission issues, so that really limits your choices for a robust track car.
            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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            • #7
              The fuel starve problem can be fixed with a hydramat and a low volume low flow pump.

              ALL the cars in world challenge at this point have aftermarket ECUs (usually Bosch or MoTec), and only recently were the Nissans allowed hood vents and recalibrated ABS units because of the issues Tony Rivera had several years ago.. It took multiple years of Nissan lobbying PWC staff to be allowed to correct the issues within the ruleset. But in a time attack car, the rules are different.. ABS can be relatively easily reprogrammed or removed completely (now you're just like a base model S14!)..
              Originally posted by SoSideways
              I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
              '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
              '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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              • #8
                Yep. Hood vents went in this year at COTA if my memory serves me correctly.

                Ex PWC or Continental cars can be had for deals as well if you wanted a sorted track onlyu Z chassis. A properly setup S chassis drift car converted to track spec, not so sure about. But I have seen some proper builds (take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a fabricator much less a ruleset (SCCA/NASA/etc) fabricator, just something I have thought about).

                S chassis tax is stupid at this point.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
                  The fuel starve problem can be fixed with a hydramat and a low volume low flow pump.

                  ALL the cars in world challenge at this point have aftermarket ECUs (usually Bosch or MoTec), and only recently were the Nissans allowed hood vents and recalibrated ABS units because of the issues Tony Rivera had several years ago.. It took multiple years of Nissan lobbying PWC staff to be allowed to correct the issues within the ruleset. But in a time attack car, the rules are different.. ABS can be relatively easily reprogrammed or removed completely (now you're just like a base model S14!)..
                  At that point - why bother? You still have lazy DBW throttle lag, and a kinda hard/expensive to mod engine for small power gains.

                  It's not like you can pick up a Z34 for $5k or anything, they're still well into the teens for one that isn't a POS. Then you're talking about dumping a few grand into it to be able to actually track it in stock form for a full session. An S13 or S14 with mild maintenance and a few cheap go-fast parts can do that at the same speed.

                  Originally posted by RalliartRsX View Post
                  Yep. Hood vents went in this year at COTA if my memory serves me correctly.

                  Ex PWC or Continental cars can be had for deals as well if you wanted a sorted track onlyu Z chassis. A properly setup S chassis drift car converted to track spec, not so sure about. But I have seen some proper builds (take this with a grain of salt, as I am not a fabricator much less a ruleset (SCCA/NASA/etc) fabricator, just something I have thought about).

                  S chassis tax is stupid at this point.
                  Yes, the S-chassis market is getting a little goofy, but I think all the drifters have churned through the cheap chassis, and they're old enough that the supply of people still daily driving them then selling them cheap is drying up.

                  If you want to get your mind really boggled, look up S2000 values. Mine gained about 30-40% of its value in a year, and they're still going up. I see salvage title ones that look nasty selling for mid teens around here. It's made me forget ever picking one up again. At least I got a year in one, it was a pretty fun go.
                  '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                  DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                  http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                  • #10
                    S2K values are stupid. If I was to do a RWD affordable vehicle that was not American iron??

                    Blown Engine BRZ, K24 junkyard accord engine, cheap K20 head, turbo and go blow up the S2000 gearbox, then move on a 350Z gearbox. Be in it about 12-15K and you would have a vehicle capable of running down plenty "time attack" vehicles reliably.

                    But anyways. My vote is the S chassis. Find a shell for cheap. Drop in a SR, Garrett turbo, stock mani with EWG (or grab a used DOC, FR, or insert your favorite alphabet soup name manifold/downpipe), throw a few $K in suspension and some used PWC/Continental tire take-offs and go hunt some C5 vettes....Very simple setup and capable chassis with minor work and lots of information out to get them to work with lots of tire stuffed into the fender wells.

                    However in all honesty, with race wars around the corner, people are charging 4k for a 20 year old drop in engine/gearbox/wiring with some gaskets on it that they beat in their drift car.......no thanks. A S chassis with a SR are getting into used stock S2K territory (atleast in my area). Its past BRZ territory and creeping on used, think 2010+) Mustang 5.0GT with track pack (brembo brakes/wheels) price......for a 20-25 year old chassis with just as old an engine. Several K more than a drop in SR20 price and you can build a VET, so yeah.......

                    If you can find a package deal, sure, its worth it. But apart from that I wouldn't restrict your options to just S chassis.

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                    • #11
                      All proper/popular modern era analog cars that we grew up with are no longer really depreciating and most excellent examples are appreciating. Thus is life.

                      I'm a huge fan of buying something already done, especially if you have mini-me's running around your house.

                      Here's an already prepared 350Z (HR) for an asking price of $22k (price listed in HPRDE Marketplace on FB):

                      http://www.dww-motorsports.com/singl...nd-T3-Race-Car


                      This came up also in my quick search; here's an already prepped S14 VQ already done for $22k as well:

                      https://www.racingjunk.com/Nissan/18...=5&from=search



                      Don't want to take this off topic too much, but on VQ37VHR's, how realistic is Z1's claim of 400hp from their bolt-on package (click here)? Because if so, I'd say that's fairly significant for an NA engine without touching cams. May have to put one in my S14 in the future to compete with S54 swapped cars.
                      Core4 Motorsports
                      CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                      S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

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                      • #12
                        How much power are S54 swapped cars making now ? Last I remember reading in the M3 forums was 350ish with bolt ons and tune.

                        Originally posted by gills View Post
                        All proper/popular modern era analog cars that we grew up with are no longer really depreciating and most excellent examples are appreciating. Thus is life.

                        I'm a huge fan of buying something already done, especially if you have mini-me's running around your house.

                        Here's an already prepared 350Z (HR) for an asking price of $22k (price listed in HPRDE Marketplace on FB):

                        http://www.dww-motorsports.com/singl...nd-T3-Race-Car


                        This came up also in my quick search; here's an already prepped S14 VQ already done for $22k as well:

                        https://www.racingjunk.com/Nissan/18...=5&from=search



                        Don't want to take this off topic too much, but on VQ37VHR's, how realistic is Z1's claim of 400hp from their bolt-on package (click here)? Because if so, I'd say that's fairly significant for an NA engine without touching cams. May have to put one in my S14 in the future to compete with S54 swapped cars.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Scores240 View Post
                          How much power are S54 swapped cars making now ? Last I remember reading in the M3 forums was 350ish with bolt ons and tune.
                          Yes, that's a capable range with the right induction, exhaust and of course tune, but it's aggressive. At least for endurance racing.
                          Core4 Motorsports
                          CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                          S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

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                          • #14
                            22k Canadian for that S14 is a steal! Cage alone is probably 5Gs if it's a proper cage.

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                            • #15
                              A VQ37VHR making 400 BHP is possible, but I don't think it's very likely with a few bolt-ons and a tune. That's like +60 rwhp over stock, which I don't buy (and it's also more like 350 rwhp, not 340 rwhp).


                              I suppose anything is possible, but it's probably going to need exhaust cams and a lot of tweaking...
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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