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EFR boost control with Turbosmart IWG?

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  • Def
    started a topic EFR boost control with Turbosmart IWG?

    EFR boost control with Turbosmart IWG?

    I know I've sold at least a few Turbosmart IWG75 dual port's for guys using EFRs. How is the boost control across the whole rev range? The BW canisters leave a little bit to be desired with holding boost up high - canister diameter is on the smallish side for packaging, and the WG flapper is large, so any exhaust back pressure tends to cause a lot of boost drop at higher RPM.


    I currently have an old school GReddy EWG on my MR2, and while I'm not a big EWG fan, the super flat boost response across the whole rev range is pretty nice compared to the usual IWG boost drop at higher RPM.

    Does the IWG75 dual port tend to solve this boost drop? How much above the spring pressure can you go and still get good control?

  • Def
    replied
    Meh, Iím not a fan of a dumped EWG. Makes it obnoxious to get into boost on the street. maybe that means Iím getting old, but I donít like it on my MR2 one bit.

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  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    Meh. Worked just fine on my prior SR for several thousand track miles. Easy boost (10psi) on a big honking T3/T04E and a Garret GT28R. No failure......yet. 340WHP and 300 WHP. Simple setups.

    I also do not have to deal with Texas heat so no need to water cooling (which my prior TiAL EWG did not have ports for anywho). As far as complexity?? Manifold and wastegate were built together, so fitment is fine. Routed to dump underneath front subframe, so smell is next to nil.

    But all that could go up in smoke if I simply want my AC back hahahah!

    For some bizarre reason, I LOVE the sound of a proper EWG on a VET, so looking forward to seeing how it sounds on my setup. Sounded absolutely mental at the back straight of my home track from the outside. Cannot explain why I like it so much however lol
    Last edited by RalliartRsX; 09-24-2018, 04:47 PM.

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  • Def
    replied
    I personally wouldn't run an EWG without water cooling and recircing it back into the downpipe. That adds a huge layer of complexity and expense, so the IWG's downsides seem very minor, and relatively easily overcome in comparison.

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  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    Keep us posted.

    I am 50/50 on ditching the EWG and sticking with my IWG75. The coming weeks we will see and hopefully I can add another data point.

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  • Def
    replied
    If I had a twin port IWG, I would probably see how it performed on the 3 port boost solenoid, but be fully prepared to go with a 4 port if it didn't do exactly what I wanted.


    And I'll just say that a B1 frame EFR isn't anywhere near $2k... at least if you get the DefSport hookup. The twin port WG is like $180 + a $60-70 4 port solenoid. It's a decent chunk of change for just boost control. But I could see doing it if other options weren't getting me what I wanted.

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  • candamo
    replied
    Yes you are correct that the diagram would apply on the same way, however with a 3 port the pressures you put on the upper and lower part of the diaphragm are the same. With the 4 port you are able to put different amounts of pressure on WG ports making a more capable boost control.

    So you spend 2000$ on a turbo and cant spend an extra 65$ on a solenoid, doesn't make much sense to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    The twin port IWG75 EFR internal gate is setup EXACTLY the way you would setup an EWG, so that setup diagram directly applies to this very topic.

    Also, you echoed my statements from above in regards to a 4 port allowing the flexibility to run a softer spring and holding the pressure up top.

    All I am saying is, if you have a 3 port it works just fine when properly setup. That and a MAC 3 port valve is like $35 lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • candamo
    replied
    Yeah you definately can run a 3 port like that. However thats an external wastegate and sometimes you dont even need both ports in order to have rock solid boost line.
    First the 4 port can help with boost taper up top since it has some extra oomph . And second, it can give you a lot of flexibility regarding the boost target you can achieve with a soft spring. Like a 0.5bar and running more than 2 bar without much taper up top.

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  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    Originally posted by candamo View Post
    A 3 port solenoid has only one output, so you can only control the lower port of the IWG. You NEED a 4 port solenoid to control a 2 port IWG correctly.
    Also, a 4port is also super reactive to changes, so start with very low % DC, like 1-2% and start going up real slowly.
    See above.

    A 3 port can be used to control a twin gate no problem. Don't forget, a 3 port is simply switch between COM, always open and always closed ports. All you are doing on a 2 port gate is switch from pressure keeping the gate close, to immediately switching to pressure to open the gate.

    Does a 4 port work?? Sure. I am just not spending 100+ on one until I work through a 3 port myself however. I have seen 3 port MAC valve on 2 port gates (tiAL).

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  • Def
    replied
    Lots of people hook up a 3 port solenoid to a WG with two ports.

    Like this:



    Also seen this, where you always put full pressure to the "close" side of the actuator. Not sure how well this works with a decently stiff spring tho???

    Leave a comment:


  • candamo
    replied
    A 3 port solenoid has only one output, so you can only control the lower port of the IWG. You NEED a 4 port solenoid to control a 2 port IWG correctly.
    Also, a 4port is also super reactive to changes, so start with very low % DC, like 1-2% and start going up real slowly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    I'm not sure how a twin port IWG with a 3 port solenoid would work though. You'd be effectively putting full pressure on the "resist" or "close" side, and then every PWM cycle of the solenoid would then variably fill both the resist AND the open side at the same time. At least that's my understanding. You wouldn't have a "bleed" port on the 3 port solenoid, it would just shuttle the solenoid valve from one side of the WG to the other, exposing it to the boost source. Not sure how that'd work in theory.


    I think the 4 port is a more controllable system in this respect, by venting the unused port (which increases the control authority range).

    That said, it does seem lots of people plumb up a 3 port solenoid to the top and bottom ports of an EWG, so I suppose the system can work. It seems like it'd be a bit touchy to small changes in duty cycle in my engineering brain tho'...


    As for the 3S-GTE head flow, I've got mild gen 3 OEM cams and a bigger intake manifold plenum, so it's probably roughly equal to a stock SR20DET for flow. I think the reason some 3S owners report needing crazy boost to put up mid 300's or something like that is they tend to use OLD ass turbo technology, and really suspect rebuilds of really old turbo tech as well. They commonly site a GT3071R as an "unbeatable" turbo, which is a bit funny given it was surpassed by Garrett over 10 years ago, nevermind the EFR lineup.


    I've been mulling this over in my head, and I was leaning towards going with an IWG75 from the getgo and tuning it in. But maybe I'll just run the medium BW canister and see what it gets me with like 6-7 turns of preload. If I can remember right from my SR install, that'd probably do about 10-12 psi base boost with some drop off up high. I need to search some of my posts from my first EFR install with the medium canister and see if that jives with what I actually saw.

    Leave a comment:


  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    Yeah. I am not sold on the whole 4 port deal so yeah..........3 port on the twin port IWG75 works fine for what I have seen

    I think you would be fine with the twin port IWG75 on a EFR (or 3 port MAC) solenoid for your intended range.

    Not sure how well the GTE head flows so not sure how much air 20psi truly is in terms of how much fuel you need. Your 540s may be fine.

    Just send it and report back with broken pistons and sheering timing belts

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    Eh... 4 port. I'll probably just wait and see how the medium canister works with 5-6 turns of preload then. I know it'll be a tad lazy on boost build, but maybe it'll work ok for what I'm looking for. Don't want to make a bajillion changes to the car at once and then chase my tail trying to dial it all in. The WG actuator is easy enough to get to once the turbo is installed... I hope. It's between the engine and turbo, with the firewall right in front of it... soooo.... won't have a ton of access!

    I'd really like a low boost setting of ~10-12 psi, and then be able to run probably 18-20 psi on full tilt. Not sure the ~540cc injectors in there can support that much pressure on a 6758, even at the ~50 psi base pressure I'm currently running.

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