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Solo Nats, Good Luck Panda

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  • #16
    Congrats guys, big win for the 240 community!
    I'm from Canada, they say i'm slow............eh.

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    • #17
      I'd like to know what broke, & why.

      Gongrats on the 1-2 finish!

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      • #18
        Great job! Congrats!
        NASA Time Trials TT3


        BTW I work for Garrett

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Jason M View Post
          I'd like to know what broke, & why.

          Gongrats on the 1-2 finish!
          Looks like they were welding the tabs back on the left front strut housing. 315 hoosiers on the front could be the why.
          Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
          TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

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          • #20
            Originally posted by eye-5 View Post
            Looks like they were welding the tabs back on the left front strut housing. 315 hoosiers on the front could be the why.
            I've never liked how there is only one (weld) pass on the outside of the mounting tabs/strut ears on the veilside housings. I think I'm going to weld the insides & gusset them for safety.

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            • #21
              The tabs that broke off were my fault. I made extensions to run the 315's up front without spacers, so the ears on my struts are pretty long. With that much distance, I should have gusseted the mounts, since they broke under braking, probably because of the increased flex/fatigue from the extensions. Basically, my welds broke, not Rich's.

              I'll write up more later, but I wouldn't worry about the Veilside housings as-is. Working on a car test with Simanyi (and possibly Hyman) before breaking down the practice course

              Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4

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              • #22
                Originally posted by AceInHole View Post
                The tabs that broke off were my fault. I made extensions to run the 315's up front without spacers, so the ears on my struts are pretty long. With that much distance, I should have gusseted the mounts, since they broke under braking, probably because of the increased flex/fatigue from the extensions. Basically, my welds broke, not Rich's.

                I'll write up more later, but I wouldn't worry about the Veilside housings as-is. Working on a car test with Simanyi (and possibly Hyman) before breaking down the practice course

                Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4
                how long did you extend them? and how much camber did you have to add into the ears?

                The ones on my FC are slightly extended... but my 18x12s are still spaced out to -10.... which is less than ideal.
                '89 RX-7 TurboII - SSM - Widebody - Ford 8.8 IRS - giant wing - Megasquirt3
                '89 Corolla SR5 - SMF - 4A-GE 20 Valve 6 speed swap - Megasquirt-2
                '01 Impreza 2.5RS - Rallycross Stock AWD / Daily
                '81 BMW R65

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by AceInHole View Post
                  The tabs that broke off were my fault. I made extensions to run the 315's up front without spacers, so the ears on my struts are pretty long. With that much distance, I should have gusseted the mounts, since they broke under braking, probably because of the increased flex/fatigue from the extensions. Basically, my welds broke, not Rich's.

                  I'll write up more later, but I wouldn't worry about the Veilside housings as-is. Working on a car test with Simanyi (and possibly Hyman) before breaking down the practice course

                  Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4
                  What size wheels and what offset are you running up front ?

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                  • #24
                    18x12 +5

                    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4

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                    • #25
                      So, since I never seem to remember to write this post at home (STILL unpacking) and I'm waiting for some systems to boot up at work, I figured I'd at least get the story down:

                      I'll admit that this year's trip to Nationals was more of a "hail Mary" than past ones, even moreso than going to Nats on a barely tested front tire setup last year. We had gone through the year with nothing but problems at seemingly every event. In NJ we tore the subframe in half, got lucky and fixed it. In Dover I sheared a hub in half, then snapped a tie rod end, but could only scrounge out a 2nd place finish. Devens plagued us with ignition problems, while DC had overheating. Wilmington, the final National event before the Big Show, even had a fuel rail crack. In the back of my head, the question wasn't whether we'd do well at Nationals, but if the car would survive.

                      Right before Nats I did the systems check: all suspension nuts and bolts were tight, I switched from coolant to straight distilled water & wetter, and was fortunate enough to change out my diff fluid to find a broken tooth on the ring gear (attached to the magnetic drain plug), which gave me some time to swap it out before leaving. I was hopeful that that would be the last mechanical problem I'd have to deal with.

                      The ProFinale would kick off Nationals like every year beforehand. Going into it, I knew we were the underdog since the AWD cars were a good 0.5 to 0.7 ahead of us by the 60' (for some reason Panda can only muster a 2.1, something I hope to address next year). The results from practice starts were pretty terrifying: the GTR had a full second on me by 200'. My only prayer would be if the course was in our favor. Unfortunately, it wasn't.

                      The Pro course was basically the normal Lincoln layout, which is a drag start followed by a bunch of essess turning back with a weak attempt at transition before the finish. In this case, the flowing sweepers were replaced with 2 digs (per side) and the "slalom" was like 40 paces. In Panda with 400whp, I was pretty much flat out through the entire thing. Things basically went rough as I tried to put in hero runs early to no avail, and had to settle for 3rd place on Sunday with Dave sitting in 2nd. We had split the GT-R, but were 1.6 and 1.8 behind Hyman. Considering the course, it wasn't actually that bad.

                      Normally being beaten by that much would be kind of degrading, but the Tour-style courses would remove the drag start advantage, and also incorporate more elements that favor Panda over Godzilla. Looking at the courses, it was apparent that the West side would be the "handling" course, while the East side was dubbed the "power" course. Since we started on the West, we knew we'd have to get a pretty big lead.

                      Thankfully, from run 1 we had set the statement: Panda was the car to beat. Despite Dave coning his first run, the raw time was simply on another level compared to the rest of the class. My conservative first run would beat all other cars in the class for the day, despite pulling more time in the next run. By run 3, I was basically shooting for Top PAX, while Dave was relegated to putting in his "smart" run to have a clean (yet class leading) time going into the next day.

                      Wednesday would answer my orignal question, as our front driver's side strut would break in half. Thanks to what seemed like 50 people helping, we were able to remove the entire corner of suspension, hammer everything straight, have it re-welded (thanks to EMod builder Jeff Keisel!), and set a quick toe alignment before the end of the next heat! During that time, Jenna would put in 2 great runs in a car she had never sat in before, salvaging a 2nd place. I whole-heartedly believe she would have won if the strut had held up.

                      Getting into our runs was difficult, knowing we had just had a near-catastrophic failure. In the back of my mind was the other strut, the motor, the trans, the axles, and everything else that could potentially break. Despite that, Dave and I put in clean first runs to at least put time in the books, and to my surprise they were holding up! With a cone on Hyman's run, we were sitting first and second, although Hyman's time was enough to take the overall lead. If he could clean it up and improve, we'd have been in a tough spot. Fortunately for us, Hyman never matched his time, and Dave and I both improved enough to hold on to the top 2 spots. During our runs, we both noted that the car wasn't handling quite right, and thinking it was tires, we decided to try swapping fronts to rears (while still spraying every ounce of water we could). During the swap, I found that the cross weights were off enough that the jack would not fit under the passenger side (different jack than I normally used) while it fit easily under the driver's side. It had turned out our runs were holding up despite the crossweights being off by about a quarter inch!

                      In the end, Panda ends up with another championship, and what seems to be a huge fan-base. Reading some other threads on this, it was a good feeling to know that the "heroic fix" of Panda on day 2 was in some people's favorite moments from this year's Nationals. My biggest hope is that Panda's triumph over Godzilla isn't just seen as some underdog story, but more as encouragement for all the other SM builders to keep running their cars no matter who joins the class.

                      Hope to see the rest of you guys out there next year!

                      Dave's West Run:
                      YouTube Video
                      ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


                      Dave's East Run:
                      YouTube Video
                      ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
                      Last edited by AceInHole; 09-12-2013, 02:06 PM.

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                      • #26
                        With 315's or 335's on the back and 400rwhp, I would expect consistent 2.0's if not 1.9's, 0-60ft. What rpm due you luanch at?

                        Russell can knock out 2.0's & 2.1's all day even with our 275's with the S13 subframe. We had a difficult time putting down all of our new power this year, so we were batlling either bogging it, wheel spin or wheel hop. The car seems to accelerate harder off the line @ half throttle, probably due to less wheel spin though... I plan on getting luanch control setup this winter along with the S14 subframe installed. Just need to find a place to practice luanching!

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                        • #27
                          I wouldn't think the S14 subframe would be SM legal... is that a update/backdate thing?
                          '89 RX-7 TurboII - SSM - Widebody - Ford 8.8 IRS - giant wing - Megasquirt3
                          '89 Corolla SR5 - SMF - 4A-GE 20 Valve 6 speed swap - Megasquirt-2
                          '01 Impreza 2.5RS - Rallycross Stock AWD / Daily
                          '81 BMW R65

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                          • #28
                            My best is a 1.9 with some clutch slipping, but it's just not repeatable enough at the lights. With some practice I could probably get it to work, but I'd rather concentrate on making more low end power and having the rear end hook up better. At Lincoln with a lot of rubber down we were launching with the 2-step at about 4200. Anything less would hook up and bog.

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                            • #29
                              Jason, your car seems to really hook up well, considering that you have the S13 subframe. Remember that we are launching on untreated, low traction asphalt compared to Lincoln....... so expect much more grip at Lincoln WHEN you make it out there.....

                              I've never been happy with my SR on Pro launches - as my car is in the 2.1 to 2.3 range since I built it. I was never that slow with my KADET,.....but the car unfortunately was 600+ lbs heavier - thus the new car is still faster simply due to the much lighter weight in transient stuff. And no, I still want to build the car light and run a 275 or smaller and prove it can still be close to the big tires you guys are running. (it's hard to spend as much time as I have to engineer a car to be as light as possible, then tack 200 lbs onto it just to make class weight.......)

                              What are you KADET guys running for flywheels ?? (I'm wondering if the lightweight aluminum flywheel is the totally incorrect component for quicker launches with my much less torquier SR ?

                              Congrats to you PJ and Dave. and YES it's keeping me "hopeful" that you guys are right on par with Godzilla - as it shows I could still have a chance at being in the top 10 at Nationals (not the Pro) and possibly faster if I hire an alien to race and I fix my known issues with my car

                              Eage8: S14 subframe is SP legal, as both S13 and S14 are on the same line in SP.

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                              • #30
                                I always like reading the write ups. Those Godzilla vs Panda shirts were awesome as well. Be cool if the two cars were on the back.
                                Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
                                TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

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