Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wrote a letter in to move the 240sx to FSP

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wrote a letter in to move the 240sx to FSP

    Wrote a letter in to move the 240sx out of DSP and into FSP. If you're an SCCA member and agree that the 240sx is now severely out-gunned in DSP, please take the time to also write in.

    For an example (please don't copy and paste, they do read these and I feel different viewpoints/ opinions/ examples count more):
    With the introduction of the RX-8, in addition to the long standing E46 3-series in class, it has become apparent that the 240sx does not "fit" in DSP. Even compared to the Integra Type-R, the 240sx is underpowered. It is painfully obvious that the 240sx does not compare, generally measuring 125 - 145whp (on the dyno) with simple bolt ons and weighing 2700 lbs or more (for comparison my SM car with carbon fiber and many lightweight parts is 2650).

    In terms of power-to-weight, it seems similar to the lighter/ smaller (but also RWD) AE86 Corolla, currently classed in FSP. As such, with the size handicap, I believe the 240sx should be similarly classed. In short, I believe the performance of the 240sx is a good fit for FSP. Therefore, I request that the 240sx be moved from DSP to FSP.
    Full disclosure: I really want to add fender flares to Jenna's STC car and run Hoosiers on it.

  • #2
    Originally posted by AceInHole View Post
    Wrote a letter in to move the 240sx out of DSP and into FSP. If you're an SCCA member and agree that the 240sx is now severely out-gunned in DSP, please take the time to also write in.

    For an example (please don't copy and paste, they do read these and I feel different viewpoints/ opinions/ examples count more):


    Full disclosure: I really want to add fender flares to Jenna's STC car and run Hoosiers on it.
    I was actually thinking the same thing, this morning even. But my car is far from prepped and I'm not sure of it's ultimate competitiveness compared to DSP or FSP. I mostly just don't want to buy new letters We've got a number of fully prepped FSP and DSP cars in our region, I'll try and get some real world numbers to include for comparison.

    I think your weights are off though. My base s14 weighed in at under 2700. That's with some boat anchor wheels, brakes, and AC. A full prep build should be able to get an s14 to 2550, an s13 2450-2500ish. I've done some trimming and have new wheels waiting to go on so I'll weigh it again to make sure that's accurate.

    That being said, I think it is outclassed and I'll write a letter as well.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cdlong View Post
      I was actually thinking the same thing, this morning even. But my car is far from prepped and I'm not sure of it's ultimate competitiveness compared to DSP or FSP. I mostly just don't want to buy new letters We've got a number of fully prepped FSP and DSP cars in our region, I'll try and get some real world numbers to include for comparison.

      I think your weights are off though. My base s14 weighed in at under 2700. That's with some boat anchor wheels, brakes, and AC. A full prep build should be able to get an s14 to 2550, an s13 2450-2500ish. I've done some trimming and have new wheels waiting to go on so I'll weigh it again to make sure that's accurate.

      That being said, I think it is outclassed and I'll write a letter as well.
      Write the letter and I'll plot you some new class letters

      I went by the weights I've historically pulled over time. Nationals was the lowest I ever weighed at 2630.

      Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll check my notes as well, but I seem to remember weighing in at 2680 or something at the Colorado National Tour last year. -33lbs of AC, -50 lbs of wheels/tires, -20 lbs of brakes, plus some other items should put it close to 2550.

        We've got another DSP guy on here as well, don't we?

        Comment


        • #5
          Curb weight search puts an S14 at just over 2700, and S13 just under.

          I wrote in as well. Watching the DSP RX8 in my region, there's no way the 240 can keep up. Looking at Rowse, Campbell, and Shchipkov in the E46's, it makes me sad.

          Also, I fully support fender flares and 5-lug hubs with ginormous Hoosiers.
          "This is because I can spell 'konfusion' with a 'k' and I can like it.

          G-Fab

          Comment


          • #6
            I started a thread on my home region's forum.
            http://www.rmsolo.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12979

            We've got a couple National FSP winners and at least one guy that was on the SPAC so their thoughts mean quite a bit.

            Comment


            • #7
              I still think people are over estimating how light the 240 can get, as well as how much power you can eek out of it. You can't do anything about compression and cam duration, so even with ITB's there won't be a huge gain.

              Aren't EG civics still the top dogs? They're likely already out accelerating whatever the 240 can possibly do, and are multi link all around. I'm pretty convinced the 240 would put up a good fight without being an over dog.

              As for moving unproven cars? They just did with the RX8, despite one having nearly won BSP at the Devens tour last year on 150+ run Hoosiers. Strike while the iron is hot, move the 240, too.

              Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

              Comment


              • #8
                Totally playing devil's advocate here:

                The RX-8 is a relatively popular autoX car and it makes sense to class it aggressively so people that already own them will race them and people that already race will own them. The 240 on the other hand has like 4 people driving them so it doesn't make sense to introduce a new class killer from nowhere.

                155hp plus 5 hp intake, 5 hp exhaust, 10 hp tune, 5 hp overbore rebuild. 180hp at the crank sounds about right.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The RX-8 is already established in a number of classes, and was already proving to have potential in BSP.

                  The 240sx is a popular car OUTSIDE of autocross. If we're in this whole movement of drawing in "new blood" (see "Street Stock") we should make a popular chassis competitive where it normally would fall with common mods (LSD, flares, big tires, etc).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We've been running our S13 coupe in DSP for a few years. I've measured my best at 168 RWHP. I still have a stock intake manifold (less swirl valves) so it's not fully optimized, but it still has good grunt! One of the challenges has been gearing, since we're stuck with the 4.08:1 FD. Most of the 245/40/17's are the same diameter as stock, the 275/40/17's are too tall and the 275/35/15's are too short. I picked up a used set of 275/35/17's this spring and they're the same diameter as stock, so I like those! I suspect the 240 is low in power for DSP and too heavy for FSP. If FSP can run 275's on a 1700lb rabbit/civic/etc, what are we to do with a 2500-2700lb car? I suspect the only competitive classes would be SM or XP, but I hope I'm wrong!
                    Don Johnson (really!)
                    Just so you know.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by djsilver View Post
                      We've been running our S13 coupe in DSP for a few years. I've measured my best at 168 RWHP. I still have a stock intake manifold (less swirl valves) so it's not fully optimized, but it still has good grunt! One of the challenges has been gearing, since we're stuck with the 4.08:1 FD. Most of the 245/40/17's are the same diameter as stock, the 275/40/17's are too tall and the 275/35/15's are too short. I picked up a used set of 275/35/17's this spring and they're the same diameter as stock, so I like those! I suspect the 240 is low in power for DSP and too heavy for FSP. If FSP can run 275's on a 1700lb rabbit/civic/etc, what are we to do with a 2500-2700lb car? I suspect the only competitive classes would be SM or XP, but I hope I'm wrong!
                      That's actually a ton more power than I ever expected from a KA, even with a custom intake... I'm still a believer that it won't upset FSP, though...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AceInHole View Post
                        That's actually a ton more power than I ever expected from a KA, even with a custom intake... I'm still a believer that it won't upset FSP, though...
                        Here are the details on the engine;
                        S13 engine, .040 over
                        JWT exhaust cam gear. Increased overlap by 5 degrees
                        S14 MAF, Cold air intake, K&N filter
                        S14 intake manifold (Apex'i AFC-III, to adjust signal for S13 ECU)
                        JWT ECU
                        Hotshot exhaust header
                        High flow cat
                        Megan 2.4" cat-back exhaust
                        Don Johnson (really!)
                        Just so you know.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Were those dyno numbers hub or wheel? I'm still convinced the power isn't a deal breaker, considering the EG's should be close to 140whp with considerably less weight (Nate Whipple's ST winning EG from back in the day was 125whp and 2100lbs). The EG can also fit 275's, which is likely what you'd run on a 240.

                          Power to weight would likely go to the Civic, and realistically with only moderate power levels the difference in being able to put it down won't make a huge difference (as it might in SM). The shorter wheelbase, lighter weight (thus more tire per weight), and better inherent suspension design are all also nods to the Civic.

                          I think there's still a good argument to make the move.

                          Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What? You mean you don't want to run street tires? According to the SEB our members only want to run street tires from here on out, they are the awesome sauce.
                            Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
                            TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've been running street tires in DSP and been having plenty of fun. It makes sense in a "race car" but not in a car that's comparitively off the showroom floor. But please let's just accept that there are many different opinions and not start that debate here too.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X