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Na ka24de input for datsun 510

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  • #16
    Even that motor would probably only be roughly 185whp if they dropped the CR down towards 10:1.

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    • #17
      Who needs it at 10:1? you can still run 11-11.5:1 on 93 octane if you tune it right..
      Originally posted by SoSideways
      I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
      '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
      '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
        Agreed. However, you're still in the 'big gains' department to get 200whp on a KA with pump gas- and an SR for that matter. The problem is that most people don't consider minor headwork, proper header design, and a decent intake manifold as minor things.

        The old Speedworld Challenge cars from 2000 were putting down 215whp with essentially that much work and a stock intake manifold and throttle body.
        http://blehmco.com/stuff/nissan%20240SX%20VTS.pdf
        I think you're underestimating the VE head. It doesn't need near the help the KA does since the head flows so much, and it'll still have bottom end torque due to the small cam profile.

        Guys that actually put a header that doesn't suck and a bolt-on intake plenum can push up to 230 whp or more on a STOCK bottom end and STOCK VE head with springs and drop in factory cams that cost $400.

        Go up to an 88 mm bore and more compression and you can pull 240-250 whp with some minor effort (minor head cleanup, same header/intake effort). There are guys that have made more, like 260+, but you run into that diminishing returns problem above 230-240 whp on an NA SR, just like when trying to get a KA over about 180-190 whp.

        http://www.sr20-forum.com/vvl/56142-...-most-whp.html
        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
          Who needs it at 10:1? you can still run 11-11.5:1 on 93 octane if you tune it right..
          I've seen higher than that NA on 93. Hell, there are factory port injection cars with 11.5:1 that run on 91. My RSX Type S was 11.0:1 from the factory. It hated 87 with a passion (tried it out once or twice to see how it felt - not good), but with 93 it was fine.
          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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          • #20
            I said in my earlier post that I wanted 10:1 so I could still run pump gas because here in
            California we only have 91 at the pump if I can get away with 11:1 or 11:5:1 and still run
            91 then that's fine with me I really want to stick with the ka because that's what I have

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            • #21
              You can run 11.0:1 on 91. I wouldn't go any higher though.

              Have you thought about E85? It's stupid easy on an NA engine, and you could run whatever CR you wanted and never have to worry about knock. It's also cheap to do the fueling on an NA engine.

              Either 480 cc S15 SR20DET injectors or 525 cc yellow STi sidefeeds would be plenty.
              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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              • #22
                I have thought about e85 there isn't any locally the next town
                Over has e85 but that's like 40-45min away this car is gonna be more of a
                Street car. I did a little research on putting a ve head on a sr20de block
                Don't really want to spend the cash on the mazzworks conversion. I'll do some
                More research on header design and I can tig one up. Iam sure there are some
                Header design programs out there. I mean if I went the ve head on the de block I would
                Have to buy a whole complete swap then get a ve head

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                • #23
                  The Mazworx conversion is pretty much the most $$$ way to do it.

                  A good condition late SR20DE RWD swap goes for less than $1k shipped, and includes a trans and wiring harness. SR20VE heads are like $400-500ish. Pretty cheap when you're talking about built engines and headwork.

                  If you're talking about dropping serious $$$ into the engine, look at the total cost to get your power goals, and what the end result is. Don't just focus on one specific cost at some point in time. The way I see it, if you're going to build an engine, the VE omits pretty $$$ headwork and gives you a 240+ rwhp capable engine. Probably 200-220 rwhp not building it due to needing to stay a bit lighter on revs, less displacement, and less compression.

                  The KA will take a lot of coaxing to pull up to 200 rwhp, so don't forget the built engine, headwork, intake manifold etc.


                  Overall I see the VE possibly costing a hair more, but being more powerful and having more potential for power.
                  '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                  DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                  http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                  • #24
                    What all does it take to put the ve head on the de block is it
                    A straight swap? Maybe I'll just put the ka in my 510 wagon
                    And build a ve/de for my 4 door

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                    • #25
                      Relocate VVL solenoids (if you have firewall clearance), run 20V CAS and clearance firewall (in an S chassis), flip intake manifold plenum, block off oil port on block with NPT fitting. Maybe need a little work on the water outlet coming out of the block behind the thermostat.

                      Maybe a few other minor details, but that covers the big points.

                      It's not that difficult of a swap really. If you've got more firewall clearance in your 510 then it's cake because that's half the "problem."
                      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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                      • #26
                        I've only seen on ve/de swapped 510 it had itb's and it was
                        On the internet never seen it in person. It was a pretty rad looking
                        setup it had a haltech ecu (stand alone) I think with ls1 coils
                        not sure what he did for a cas. Iam not sure about how much
                        More clearance fire wall clearance a 510 has than a s13. But I could probably
                        Figure it out. Iam not very fimiliar with the sr like Iam with a ka
                        I have rebuilt a ka and swapped it in a 510 before.

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                        • #27
                          Think of the VE swap this way - 90% of the work you do is because the head is meant to go on a FWD block and you're turning it 90 degrees for a RWD block. The P12 CAS(or distributor for the P11 head) and VVL solenoids bolt on the back of the head when turned, so they're between the head and firewall. The TB on the intake manifold faces the firewall as well.

                          So once you get that stuff to fit and get sorted it's very simple really, just a few little clearance things, and blocking off a port or two on the block/head that don't line up (most do).

                          You can run a stock ECU with a P12 CAS if it's a DET ECU (CAS is the same). I'm not sure what the distributor ECUs want to see for cam angle sensor data, but if you want to run ITBs you weren't going to run a stock ECU anyway more than likely. You can use a simple window switch for VVL if you're running a stock DE/DET ECU and MAF though.
                          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                          http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                          • #28
                            So after putting some thought into I think the ve/de swap is the best bang for my buck
                            I called rebello and he quoted me 2500 to fully port and polish my head and cams and valves. So I feel like I could build a ve/de swap for just the price of the head work alone.

                            My other question is can I do away with the cas and run a stand alone setup like
                            aem ems? Iam just concerned with fire wall clearance

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                            • #29
                              That's pretty much what I was thinking when you mentioned having someone professionally port your head...

                              Yes, there are a few trigger wheels that run off the front of the exhaust cam and use a hall effect sensor to pick off triggers. TAARKs makes one I think, Mazworx too (although I don't like their solution due to machining the head). Tower240SX here has a nice design - not sure if he made extras.


                              What sort of EMS you planning to run? I could probably save you a few bucks on anything AEM. I've actually got an Infinity 6 incoming right now.
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                              • #30
                                Rebello does nice work but they're insanely expensive. Call a local shop and ask what they want. Probably looking at $750..
                                Originally posted by SoSideways
                                I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                                '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                                '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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