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  • NA KA24DE oil cooling requirements?

    How much cooling do these things need? Figure most shifts are around 6400.

    If the answer is "none", then great! In ChumpCar we take a $20 "value" hit for an aftermarket oil cooler. Plus there's no minimum weight, so every little bit there helps. I'm guessing this isn't the case though.

    I'm guessing the answer is "not much", in which case I'm going to look in to running a water-oil sandwich cooler off of another Nissan or a Subaru or something. I do have a Gen 3 Viper water-oil cooler laying about I could make work, but would love the simplicity of a sandwich cooler if it'll do.

    If it needs an air-oil cooler then I'll go with that, but I'm hoping it won't. We run a lot of oil capacity to delay sheer (yes all oil sheers down, even Motul 300V and even in cold temperatures), and without the coolant heating the oil it really takes a long time to heat up 10 quarts (on the VG; I expect our KA capacity will be around 6-7). This isn't a problem in a race, but it means that in testing the car is inevitably beat on with cold 15w50. Plus I've seen those oil thermostats fail before.
    Flatout Racing
    #23 Z32 Chumpcar

  • #2
    Weld a bunch of 18 ga sheet metal fins on the bottom of the oil pan and build a scoop for them and shroud the top.

    That's the kind of oil cooler they want to see.

    I imagine it'll be enough to keep the oil roughly in check if you get the fin density high enough.
    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Def View Post
      Weld a bunch of 18 ga sheet metal fins on the bottom of the oil pan and build a scoop for them and shroud the top.

      That's the kind of oil cooler they want to see.

      I imagine it'll be enough to keep the oil roughly in check if you get the fin density high enough.
      ChumpCar is ok with real oil coolers, and they may in fact impose a $20 value on oil pan fins (I'll ask).

      I'm really wondering what a stock KA hits for oil temps though; if they go to 280+ then I don't think the fins will be enough.
      Flatout Racing
      #23 Z32 Chumpcar

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      • #4
        Can you run the sandwich and then loop a couple feet of copper tubing for it to run through. Friend with an impreza did this and dropped his temps 20+

        Looped it infront of the radiator btw.

        Sent from Skynet

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        • #5
          Another option is a water cooling thingy-- look at the VQ35 and VQ40. They have an oil/water cooler IIRC. I know it's there, but haven't paid much attention to how it works. I know it mounts onto the oil filter mounting location, but not sure if it takes oil out, cools, then returns, or if it flows water/coolant through that sandwich plate thingy to cool it just a little bit.. ????

          something to investigate.

          Another trick-- do you have a large radiator already? I see several people use "automatic" radiators that have a loop for the ATF inside the radiator. wonder if that would be a 'no points addition'.
          Then again, if they can see that you're using a cooler of any sort, they're probably going to get you for the hit.
          Originally posted by SoSideways
          I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
          '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
          '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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          • #6
            This post makes me think a Forrester oil cooler could work well on a lower-revving KA, so I'm going to see if I can make it fit:
            http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=184
            I would imagine these temperatures are taken pre-cooler, so inlet temps for the bearings are likely lower.

            Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
            Another option is a water cooling thingy-- look at the VQ35 and VQ40. They have an oil/water cooler IIRC. I know it's there, but haven't paid much attention to how it works. I know it mounts onto the oil filter mounting location, but not sure if it takes oil out, cools, then returns, or if it flows water/coolant through that sandwich plate thingy to cool it just a little bit.. ????
            They're sandwich oil-water coolers, and small ones at that. They act as coolant-oil heat exchangers, heating the oil up when its cold and cooling down when its hot. The Subaru coolers are larger and use the same oil filter gasket size as a stock KA filter. The only coolers I can find which use the same oil filter threads as the KA are too large of a diameter, so I may end up running a non-standard oil filter or something. We'll see when I get a Subaru cooler in-hand to play with (if I don't use it on the KA, I'll put it on impreza rally beater).

            What sort of oil cooler and temps do you run on your race car? Is it naturally aspirated?

            Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
            Another trick-- do you have a large radiator already? I see several people use "automatic" radiators that have a loop for the ATF inside the radiator. wonder if that would be a 'no points addition'.
            We use the auto trans cooler in the radiator on our Z, as a power steering cooler. This 240 I'm building won't have power steering, and I'm unsure on how a trans cooler will do with high-pressure engine oil. I agree using this cooler would be convenient, but its something I'd rather not risk unless its known to work without issue.
            Last edited by gbeaty; 12-05-2013, 08:27 PM.
            Flatout Racing
            #23 Z32 Chumpcar

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            • #7
              My car is NA and I've never bothered to check oil temps. water temps on stock radiator (with no ducting) never go over 205-210 on track in the summer, 185-190 in the winter.

              Just never really had cooling problems so I haven't chased those numbers much.
              Originally posted by SoSideways
              I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
              '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
              '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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              • #8
                They would penalize you for 50 cents of sheet metal welded to the sump?
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                • #9
                  Now you see why Chump is falling on its face like LeMons..
                  Originally posted by SoSideways
                  I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                  '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                  '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's almost like they want cars to blow up or something... I guess that adds to the spectacle.
                    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is it normal for NA KAs to not run oil coolers? I've never had a track car without an aftermarket cooler.

                      Originally posted by Def View Post
                      They would penalize you for 50 cents of sheet metal welded to the sump?
                      Possibly, though possibly only $0.50. ChumpCar considers reliability to equal performance, so reliability mods (such as oil coolers, larger radiators, etc.) are assigned points (or "value" as they call it) like sway bars would be in NASA.

                      Both series have many silly rules, but both are growing and doing very well. I think they'll eventually be superseded by a series where the organizers better understand racing and its costs, but until then ChumpCar is what we've got.
                      Flatout Racing
                      #23 Z32 Chumpcar

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gbeaty View Post
                        Is it normal for NA KAs to not run oil coolers? I've never had a track car without an aftermarket cooler.
                        I've seen a lot of IT cars that didn't have them, but Production and GT classes all have them- then again they're running 12:1 or higher compression (Thus far, I'm the only one I know of that runs an S-chassis in Super Touring.)

                        Possibly, though possibly only $0.50. ChumpCar considers reliability to equal performance, so reliability mods (such as oil coolers, larger radiators, etc.) are assigned points (or "value" as they call it) like sway bars would be in NASA.

                        Both series have many silly rules, but both are growing and doing very well. I think they'll eventually be superseded by a series where the organizers better understand racing and its costs, but until then ChumpCar is what we've got.
                        Chump is having a lot of problems with management recently- at least in TX area...
                        Recently, one of the 'partners' in Chump is now an ex-partner and started yet another league that's got even less BS.

                        http://worldracingleague.org/
                        That's what I'm talkin'bout!
                        Originally posted by SoSideways
                        I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                        '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                        '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't see why an NA KA would particularly need much oil cooling. It would probably help to have some (i.e. weld about 15-20 fins on the sump and slightly duct them), but it's probably not like we're talking about 275+ deg F oil temps on a stockish KA.

                          Even a mildly modified SR can do just fine with a bigger aluminum pan like a GReddy on all but really hot days.
                          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                          http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                          • #14
                            Also remember that sprint racing vs endurance racing.
                            My car is fine in a 45 min race even on 100+ days. But do that for 6 hours? The engine itself should reach equilibrium within about 10-15 min on track, but think about all of the crap that gets clogged in a radiator after several hours on track. lots of grass and tire crap get stuck in them radiator fins.
                            Originally posted by SoSideways
                            I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                            '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                            '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Def View Post
                              I don't see why an NA KA would particularly need much oil cooling.
                              Oil temp definitely depends on the max rpm. Mine was NA and would get to 275F with a ducted oil cooler. Water temps would be 200-205 and oil 275F on a 90F day equalized after 3 laps. At the NASA Championships where the ambient was 55F one day, water temp was 180F and oil was still 250-275F.

                              First you need to know what the max oil temp is. Bearing durability will be better with oil temps 210-220F.
                              NASA Time Trials TT3


                              BTW I work for Garrett

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