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New garrett turbos ! G25 550 & 660

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  • New garrett turbos ! G25 550 & 660

    Hey guys .

    Do you have some info on them ?

    They do have a nice ring on paper:
    https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbo...series-g25-550

    finally, garrett uses bigger trim and redesigned turbine wheels ... and efficiency climbs up to 80%

    I was ready to get a gtx2867r (because direct drop, only the hotpipe needs some mod), but the g25 -550 might just be perfect for me.

  • #2
    It's only a 60 mm major diameter compressor wheel. No way it's going to out power a GTX2867R, and I can't really see 550 HP on that considering how fast the efficiency is falling off as it approaches 50 lbs/min of air.

    The 0.72 A/R housing is likely a bit sweeter for a T2 response setup while giving a hair more flow, and the new turbine wheel is a nice feature.

    It might do 400 rwhp on a DET and the 0.72 A/R housing with the wick turned up, given a GT2871R flows a hair less on the compressor side and can do about 380 rwhp on the small housing at a reasonable level of "all of it."

    That said, I assume it's a ball bearing turbo...

    I think i'd still rather try to go with a EFR 6258 or 6758... The TiAl turbine wheel gives amazing response.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Def View Post
      It's only a 60 mm major diameter compressor wheel. No way it's going to out power a GTX2867R, and I can't really see 550 HP on that considering how fast the efficiency is falling off as it approaches 50 lbs/min of air.
      .
      IDK, overlaying the compressor maps seems like it just might be a better combo. Sorry they aren't perfect, it's hard on a phone screen. (faded background is 2867)

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      • #4
        Can’t really see the 67 mm high flow islands there. But maybe it’s about equal, in which case the 2867 seemed to struggle to put up more than about 370-380 rwhp on DETs. The head flow isn’t great, so you need a lot of turbine flow to put out over 400 rwhp on one on pump gas.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Def View Post
          Canít really see the 67 mm high flow islands there. But maybe itís about equal, in which case the 2867 seemed to struggle to put up more than about 370-380 rwhp on DETs. The head flow isnít great, so you need a lot of turbine flow to put out over 400 rwhp on one on pump gas.
          Here they are scaled horizontally. I couldn't get the scale right vertically in autocad. Regardless, it shows what it needs to when you factor in the efficiency islands from the maps themselves. The new turbine is larger than the 2867, and flows at least 15% more...

          Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Def View Post
            It's only a 60 mm major diameter compressor wheel. No way it's going to out power a GTX2867R, and I can't really see 550 HP on that considering how fast the efficiency is falling off as it approaches 50 lbs/min of air.

            The 0.72 A/R housing is likely a bit sweeter for a T2 response setup while giving a hair more flow, and the new turbine wheel is a nice feature.

            It might do 400 rwhp on a DET and the 0.72 A/R housing with the wick turned up, given a GT2871R flows a hair less on the compressor side and can do about 380 rwhp on the small housing at a reasonable level of "all of it."

            That said, I assume it's a ball bearing turbo...

            I think i'd still rather try to go with a EFR 6258 or 6758... The TiAl turbine wheel gives amazing response.
            The 660 has the same wheels outer diameter as a 2867r. Considering the efficiency, it "falls" ... to 68% . The 2867 is down to 60% there.

            I kind of believe the 550 can somewhat make the same power a 2867r does. Since a friend got ~480 hp (not whp) out of it on a stock ca18det head, i think it can easily reach 500 with mine (e85, high lift and duration cams, ported, mech lifters, 9k rpm ready).

            I am going to wait a bit and see what's what, unless the price is too good to pass up. Or too high to get one compared to a 2867 or BW's EFR linup ...

            The ball bearing thing though. Garrett never said anything about it, and they will not publicly answer. I wonder what kind of bearing they do use. Maybe a new kind since the core is shorter too.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by croustibat View Post
              The 660 has the same wheels outer diameter as a 2867r. Considering the efficiency, it "falls" ... to 68% . The 2867 is down to 60% there.

              I kind of believe the 550 can somewhat make the same power a 2867r does. Since a friend got ~480 hp (not whp) out of it on a stock ca18det head, i think it can easily reach 500 with mine (e85, high lift and duration cams, ported, mech lifters, 9k rpm ready).

              I am going to wait a bit and see what's what, unless the price is too good to pass up. Or too high to get one compared to a 2867 or BW's EFR linup ...

              The ball bearing thing though. Garrett never said anything about it, and they will not publicly answer. I wonder what kind of bearing they do use. Maybe a new kind since the core is shorter too.
              Definitely ball bearing mate.

              https://www.full-race.com/blog/garre...turbochargers/

              Pricing.

              https://www.full-race.com/store/garr...g25-550-turbo/
              Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

              Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

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              • #8
                Meh, at that price, street pricing for EFRs will be superior. I'd take the EFR TiAl wheel all day over that.
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                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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                • #9
                  The scaled maps doesn't show much of an improvement.

                  However, the 7163 EFRs (just an example) were supposed to be 500 BHP turbos and the EVO boys are squeezing 600 WHP+ from them (over 700BHP).

                  If factoring real life, the real test is in drivability, power under the curve, boost response, etc since they have a newly designed turbine wheel.

                  However, looking through all the similarities, they almost "literally" pulled the description and design (twin entry cooling ports on both sides of the housing, G series design turbine wheel, oil restrictor fitting in the housing, speed sensor, compact V band outlet, etc etc) straight from the EFR turbos. Garrett literally lifted just about every design feature from the EFR........Apart from the packaging with the internal gate, I will still stick with my EFR unless proven otherwise as the MAPS do not seem to pose an improvement over the standard GTX. If they make a bolt on with a good flowing gate however..........

                  That goes to show how far ahead of the game EFRs were to Garrett. And just saw FR pricing. Factor in about a few hundred less with street value and the EFR are still ahead of the game.

                  Sticking with EFRs for the forseable future.....Awaiting street results as people said the same thing about EFRs (bench racing) and see where we are now

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RalliartRsX View Post
                    The scaled maps doesn't show much of an improvement.

                    If they make a bolt on with a good flowing gate however..........

                    Sticking with EFRs for the forseable future.....Awaiting street results as people said the same thing about EFRs (bench racing) and see where we are now

                    Keep in mind that is the new 60mm wheel va the GenII 67mm wheel. Quite an improvement if you ask me.

                    Check out the 3d printed concepts on the raptor engine, the new turbine housings are very EFR-esque. Speaking of which, Iím sure theyíre feeling the popularity of the efr range, and it was only a matter of time before they responded. Iím excited for some competition, because weíre going to benefit!
                    Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

                    Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

                    Suspension before power.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
                      Keep in mind that is the new 60mm wheel va the GenII 67mm wheel. Quite an improvement if you ask me.

                      Check out the 3d printed concepts on the raptor engine, the new turbine housings are very EFR-esque. Speaking of which, Iím sure theyíre feeling the popularity of the efr range, and it was only a matter of time before they responded. Iím excited for some competition, because weíre going to benefit!
                      Atleast quote my entire post for proper context lol

                      Bench racing/paper racing is good for about 30% of real life results. I will come to final judgement once I see this turbo on a real VET (or whatever) doing big things. Bench racing with MAPS is one thing, area under the curve, response, etc is where it's at for everything outside of drag racing, which no amount of flow maps can properly characterize.

                      EFR is a perfect example of this (remember, they had to up the HP limit as it turns out, they flowed a ton more than originally advertised).

                      However, as I stated, just like how the EFR was downplayed because of flow maps, Garrett may be on to something here once these hit the streets.

                      What's good for the goose, may also be good for the gander in this case. Garrett is very capable to making big things happen

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                      • #12
                        You can make crazy power running a turbo way off the compressor map, but that sort of usage only works for a hard-parking street car or drag racing. Anything more and it will not prove reliable for either the turbo or the engine most likely as your IATs will go through the roof as your intercooler saturates.


                        That is impressive flow for a 60 mm turbo, but unless there's a huge leap forward on the turbine side, it's going to be tough to utilize all that compressor flow.
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RalliartRsX View Post
                          Atleast quote my entire post for proper context lol

                          Bench racing/paper racing is good for about 30% of real life results. I will come to final judgement once I see this turbo on a real VET (or whatever) doing big things. Bench racing with MAPS is one thing, area under the curve, response, etc is where it's at for everything outside of drag racing, which no amount of flow maps can properly characterize.

                          EFR is a perfect example of this (remember, they had to up the HP limit as it turns out, they flowed a ton more than originally advertised).

                          However, as I stated, just like how the EFR was downplayed because of flow maps, Garrett may be on to something here once these hit the streets.

                          What's good for the goose, may also be good for the gander in this case. Garrett is very capable to making big things happen
                          Wait, what needed more context? Weíre having a discussion and Iím posting up flow charts that are a good indication of performance given theyíre generated by the same company. Iím not claiming any kind of results, just interested in comparing to whatís currently available.

                          Originally posted by Def View Post
                          You can make crazy power running a turbo way off the compressor map, but that sort of usage only works for a hard-parking street car or drag racing. Anything more and it will not prove reliable for either the turbo or the engine most likely as your IATs will go through the roof as your intercooler saturates.


                          That is impressive flow for a 60 mm turbo, but unless there's a huge leap forward on the turbine side, it's going to be tough to utilize all that compressor flow.

                          ^this. Iíve worked with Evo dudes for 6 years, in shops that have dynoís and specialize in tuning them. Evo dudes love big power numbers, and will run whatever they have to to get them. Then they street drive and go to two drag nights a year.

                          Are the results impressive? Sure, but theyíre also not ideal.

                          The turbine map says it flows about 5-6 more lb/min than the 2867 in the biggest housing. From what I understand, a more efficient compressor also makes the turbine work less. It should definitely be interesting to see what theyíve come up with here.
                          Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

                          Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

                          Suspension before power.

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                          • #14
                            Well, prices are out and my expectations were short lived. 2K$ for a non proven turbo design that requires a new elbow, downpipe, hotpipe and header ? And i still need to add the turbine flange and the wastegate ?

                            Please, someone sell me a 2867 A/R .64 with a T25 flange. There HAS to be someone willing to sell his to get a G25

                            Seriously, that price tag is higher than EFRs. I cannot see anyone switching to them unless they are desperate about packaging (EFRs are big) or rich garrett fans. Or if these turbos blow EFR where they clearly are better (mainly response)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by croustibat View Post
                              Well, prices are out and my expectations were short lived. 2K$ for a non proven turbo design that requires a new elbow, downpipe, hotpipe and header ? And i still need to add the turbine flange and the wastegate ?

                              Please, someone sell me a 2867 A/R .64 with a T25 flange. There HAS to be someone willing to sell his to get a G25

                              Seriously, that price tag is higher than EFRs. I cannot see anyone switching to them unless they are desperate about packaging (EFRs are big) or rich garrett fans. Or if these turbos blow EFR where they clearly are better (mainly response)
                              As with EFR's, the price will come down a little with demand.

                              http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ochargers.aspx
                              Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

                              Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

                              Suspension before power.

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