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  • #16
    Originally posted by hydra View Post
    Besides, wouldn't you want a MAF or IDC-based controller instead of a MAP-based controller? Allows you to keep a more constant meth/fuel ratio across the rev-range than a MAP-based setup would, no?
    You would in theory, but it makes almost insignificant difference in practice for us normal people.

    If you have the ability, the best way to do it would be via pwm though your ecu, I know a few of the motec/Link/Vipec etc guys do it this way.

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    • #17
      Here mine , I got from a buddy from his Evo. It's on a s13... I haven't ran my car yet Would I have issues on using it with a previous tune ? Jim wolf, emance.. Ect?

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      • #18
        That looks like the SMC kits? one of the best ever made

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CodyAce View Post
          On my personal setup, it's actually controlled via the JWT ECU, with a seperate board that Clark installs. Super simple setup as well this way IMO as it's all integrated, and switchable.

          Along with my ECU based controller, I have a hodge-podged setup using a Snow Performance Pump, (same pump as everything else), snow performance anti-siphon selonoid, and the one generic snow 1 gallon tank. Nozzle is a 375 ml/min, which IMO is plenty for 400-425 whp car.


          In regard to the performance, my car has it SIMPLY as an additional safety device as per what my buddy Ray has run on his B14 forever. While some may tune for additional HP, we use it simply as extra detonation control...which really helps out up here in the Northeast where it often sees 75-90* and 80%+ Humidity during peak summer track days. While I have run my car without meth on track with worry, every time has been in he cooler spring and fall. I can say this though, it is a NIGHT and DAY difference with it on and off in the heat...it's literally like taking that hot and sticky track day and turning into a brisk fall morning in regard to how the engine responds.

          Consumption wise, it typically eats a tank of full to a a gallon of water injection. It's not anything I ever worry about running out of on track, lets put it that way.



          Also, I do run regular old big juice. Unsure on the -XX* number, but it's the regular blue junk with the alcohol/water/blue coloring. You gotta make sure you stay away from the wacky winter mix stuff. To me, the water injection/bug juice is a fair trade off for these setups. I'm too cheap to be running a real meth mix, plus I'm also not making any more power with it (although I should crank the boost with this, but I'm nervous haha).


          Don't mind the unpainted and mess/dirty trunk, I have since painted/cleaned it up all nice and stockish. To me the trunk is a no brainer for these cars. Lines are ran right along the fuel lines...can't beat 1/4" plastic air line for these kits either ...I have spools of that at the garage.

          *On Matt's S13, we were actually able to use the rear stock sheet metal in the trunk to secure the tank (had to drill one hole) and bolted the pump to the trunk floor, with the bolts going through near the rear crash bumper bolts...it fits just like mine, but sticks up...but the trunk bracing is in the right spot to let it fit without worry.





          The freezing temp dictates the methanol content. In TX we usually get the "good to 0 deg F" stuff, which is <20% methanol, and even that is a PITA to find outside of winter, while the -20 F stuff is about 35-40% methanol.

          How much meth do you go through on the track in a typical 20-25 minute session wailing on it? It doesn't seem like it'd be anywhere near a gallon with that size nozzle, but there are some assumptions in my calcs so I don't have 100% confidence in them. Real world experience is better.


          Where did you put your nozzle? Seems like right in front of the TB with an angled fitting going towards the TB would be best.
          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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          • #20
            Rough rule of thumb on a ~500bhp setup is 4L for every 30L of gas if you're giving it all you've got...

            I'd put the jet as upstream as possible given BOV and MAF (if going blow-thru) constraints, this usually works out being a few inches upstream of the TB...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by hydra View Post
              Rough rule of thumb on a ~500bhp setup is 4L for every 30L of gas if you're giving it all you've got...

              I'd put the jet as upstream as possible given BOV and MAF (if going blow-thru) constraints, this usually works out being a few inches upstream of the TB...
              Sounds right, im using just about that on my car for a full race day both in fuel and w/m mix.

              +1, usually about 10-20cm before throttle body works well, I find that with the external mount nozzles its best to mount 90deg to the cold pipe, let the air flow distribute the mist. Only time I would bother going dual nozzle is when running 14gph or larger, I then run 2 nozzles on opposite sides of the pipe one about 20-30mm before the other.

              What I have found works real well is to use systems that have a check valve built in at the nozzle/nozzle housing then use a check valve at the rear that opens with the pump, it gives a real nice ramp up curve

              Attached pic is where I have found it works best.
              Attached Files

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              • #22
                Just for those interested, one is the AEM kit posted via MotoIQ after they sorted the leak out, cant quite remember the exact car setup. The DO log was a regular off shelf DevilsOwn kit on an S13 SR20 with GT35 @ 1.65bar, itís a pretty old install still using the 150psi pump, car has run this way for many years untouched on regular pump gas.

                Ill post some of the logs from my S14, only real difference to the S13 is it uses the 250psi pump and a solenoid as well as the check valve for reducing the bleed off time when you come off boost.

                In my opinion, these AEM flow gauges are the best money one can spend when doing a W/M install even if all you use it for is the safety setup.
                Attached Files

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                • #23
                  Wow.. Look at how much more scatter there is with the AEM plot compared to the Devil's Own... Any idea why that is?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by hydra View Post
                    Rough rule of thumb on a ~500bhp setup is 4L for every 30L of gas if you're giving it all you've got...

                    I'd put the jet as upstream as possible given BOV and MAF (if going blow-thru) constraints, this usually works out being a few inches upstream of the TB...
                    Over how long of a period?

                    I'm trying to determine if a 1 gal tank gives me enough juice for a 25 minute track session. It looks like it'd only be good for about 11 mins of spraying with the "middle" AEM nozzle which is about 315 cc/min, and they recommend around 400 HP. Seems right on the borderline on tank capacity.
                    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hydra View Post
                      Wow.. Look at how much more scatter there is with the AEM plot compared to the Devil's Own... Any idea why that is?
                      I think that's on Kojima's EVO 9. The flowmeter was mounted by the pump for cleaner wiring, which makes the pulsation of the pump more apparent to the meter. He even admitted it wasn't the ideal or recommended place to install the flowmeter in the article, but he was going for a compact install in the trunk.
                      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Def View Post
                        Over how long of a period?

                        I'm trying to determine if a 1 gal tank gives me enough juice for a 25 minute track session. It looks like it'd only be good for about 11 mins of spraying with the "middle" AEM nozzle which is about 315 cc/min, and they recommend around 400 HP. Seems right on the borderline on tank capacity.
                        Depends on the track I suppose, what's a ballpark WOT %age around the tracks you frequent? 60% give or take? Multiply that by an additional 90-95% fudge factor to take into account spool-up and transients and you end up with a ~55% meth duty cycle, so the 1gal container will probably end up being insufficient, especially when you take into account pickup issues at low fluid levels under cornering Gs. I like their 4gal container, but its got a pretty low aspect ratio and its difficult to package. Perhaps you can find a suitable windshield washer reservoir that'll do the job?

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                        • #27
                          Hmmm... I need Codyace to stop getting wasted off his craft brews and come in here with some more experience since we have similar setups...
                          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                          http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                          • #28
                            Hey now...I can't drink at work (well, I can...but I choose not too LOL)

                            (copy/paste)
                            Consumption wise, it typically eats a tank of full to a a gallon of water injection. It's not anything I ever worry about running out of on track, lets put it that way.

                            So a full gallon lasts me pretty much all day, something you will certainly not go through in one session. I typically fill my car back up with gas at lunch break anyway, and top off the bug juice at the same time. I'm also unsure what degree my stuff gets down to...other than I only get the alcy/water mix, never the de icer stuff. Truthfully, even distilled water would be ok to run too.

                            Again, my setup is controlled through my Jim Wolf ECU...it uses an RPM (4000) and TPS ( greater than 85% throttle) as the two conditions to meet before it works...this way it's not spraying all the time with a simple hobbes switch, but with that setup.

                            I have my nozzles placed roughly 12" away from the Throttle body, on the straight piece of pipe that comes up through the battery box area. I have my anti siphoning selenoid mounted in the front wheel well area as well, so it's a direct shot into the nozzle too.

                            When I first set it up, the rule of thumb used to be on the last part of 'straight' pipe, post intercooler and pre throttle body, at 10-15 inches...so that's what I set it up. I've seen guys with setups closer, but I'm unsure how much difference it makes at that rate, especially with boost. I figure mine is far enough away to really mist the charge.
                            'Slicks on a car show me you care - broken axles show me you're trying'
                            [I]Nitrous Rental Cars - Turbo Festivas - Vehicular Lunacy[/I]
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                            • #29
                              So a gallon is more than enough? What size nozzle you running again?
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                              • #30
                                I'm beginning to doubt the R+D in these Brakes if you can't search J/K!

                                375 ml Snow Nozzle
                                'Slicks on a car show me you care - broken axles show me you're trying'
                                [I]Nitrous Rental Cars - Turbo Festivas - Vehicular Lunacy[/I]
                                [SIZE="3"][B][url]www.sloppymechanics.com[/url][/B][/SIZE]

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