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DefSport 12.2" Brake GB! Round 5 - 2015!!!

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  • Originally posted by enerj View Post
    Good tips guys, that's why I love this forum.
    Looks like I need new rotors again. Any reason I shouldn't get $20 autozone blanks?

    Jfry - both sides look very similar. The car is pretty much garaged and driven to the track. It has the DTC-60s on at all times, and this pic probably has 3 events on the pads and 2 events on the rotors. I've eaten up 2 sets of rotors like this. It's usually pretty good for the first 2 sessions then goes to crap (as shown).
    Nah.. just change pads and keep going. the rotors aren't cracked or warped- they just have melted pad guts on them. new pads and drive on. it'll get scrubbed off pretty quick..
    Originally posted by SoSideways
    I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
    '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
    '96 240SX- The Track Toy

    Comment


    • You'll need a lot of street driving to scuff those rotors clean. In my experience, they'll also tend to judder as they wear, as the localized hot spots are harder than the other parts of the rotor. Therefore, they wear slower and tend to "grab" the pad harder, which can cause uneven pad transfer if it is close to occuring.

      IMO, I'd toss 'em after transferring material that badly. It's a 50/50 thing on bringing them back in my experience, and the cost of track time is too much to deal with juddery brakes.

      Maybe scuff them and then keep them in the track box as spares...
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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      • Thanks guys, I'll give that a try. Let us know if you come up with a plan B, Def.

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        • Forgive me, skimmed this thread and didn't find it. Did anyone ever confirm/deny these fitting with z32 wheels?
          '91 Silvia w/ S14 SR20DET - Track Car
          '07 Subaru WRX STi - Daily

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          • They clear with a 5mm spacer. They clear s14 se wheels with no spacers.

            www.2LiterTurbo.com (Personal Site)
            96 240SX SE: Track Car | 90 Skyline GTR: Bucket List Car | 07 Legacy Spec B: The DD

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            • Originally posted by 2_Liter_Turbo View Post
              They clear with a 5mm spacer. They clear s14 se wheels with no spacers.
              Thank you my good man
              '91 Silvia w/ S14 SR20DET - Track Car
              '07 Subaru WRX STi - Daily

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              • Fo shizzle!

                www.2LiterTurbo.com (Personal Site)
                96 240SX SE: Track Car | 90 Skyline GTR: Bucket List Car | 07 Legacy Spec B: The DD

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                • Does anybody know the p/n for the 6piston caliper for this kit? I can't seem to find them on the wilwood site

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                  • Originally posted by clotuning View Post
                    Does anybody know the p/n for the 6piston caliper for this kit? I can't seem to find them on the wilwood site
                    It's because they're discontinued, but may still be available if you inquire enough. You need to go to the radial mount versions which are a better design and almost $100 cheaper per caliper than the discontinued 6 piston lug mounts.

                    I just went through this with Def and with his help, I made radial mount brackets to use the 6 piston radial mount calipers (FSL6R).

                    Here's the reason why I needed to move to 6 piston staggered calipers:


                    Pretty horrific pad taper with the 4 piston calipers. Those were brand new DTC-60's after ~13 hours of racing at Watkins Glen.

                    Here are the 6 piston radial mount calipers after 9 hours on ST43 pads at NJMP Thunderbolt:


                    Huge difference.

                    Here's the FSL6R mounted with the bracket I made (based on Def's concept). Perfect fit:




                    You have my cell, text me for more info if you want.

                    If anyone else is interested in this, please PM me. I will be making a second iteration where I will be changing a couple of things here and there.
                    Core4 Motorsports
                    CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                    S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                    Comment


                    • How do you like the ST43 pads? I have a set of them sitting in my spares. Pad life (and taper) got a lot better when I switched from the DTC60 to DTC70. But Porterfield suggested the ST35 or ST46 and I bought a set, just haven't used them.
                      Originally posted by SoSideways
                      I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                      '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                      '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
                        How do you like the ST43 pads? I have a set of them sitting in my spares. Pad life (and taper) got a lot better when I switched from the DTC60 to DTC70. But Porterfield suggested the ST35 or ST46 and I bought a set, just haven't used them.
                        Short answer: I liked them very much.

                        Long answer :

                        I was thinking of trying DTC70's this go around, but I've been using Hawk since the beginning and wanted to try something different. Good to know though.

                        I liked the ST43's very much. The wear alone is a huge sell for me for what I do with the car. Looks like I'll be able to get 2, possibly 3 full endurance racing weekends (~20 hours per) from a set. Nuts. I still need to check if they are more abrasive on the rotors vs the DTC-60's.

                        This may not be a fair comparison because I changed the front calipers, pads all around (ST43 front and rear), and consequently the bias all in one shot. Previous setup was DTC-60 front on Defsport 4 piston wilwoods and HT-10 rears in Z32 calipers and this setup just never felt confidence inspiring, to anyone on the team. BMW's would out-brake us all day long due to what I think was just better brake balance. And we're no slouches. We're consistently near the top for fastest lap times of the weekend.

                        On the same tire (Falken RT615k+), my max braking g's increased in a similar braking zone at NJMP vs Watkin 0.15g vs the Hawk setup. Extra confidence? More rear bias? Probably a combination of both. If I didn't have a 1.5 clutch diff, the rear bias with current set might be a hair too much, as I felt the diff fighting rear lockup when aggressive in tighter, technical trail braking turns. My BMC is shimmed so I need to check that out. And, I may try the next step up friction coefficient ST on the front after I wear out this set of ST43s, which may take a looooooooong time, ha!

                        They are noisy, just like the DTC-60s were, even when hot. I don't run brake ducting and neither the DTC60 or the ST43s transferred poorly from overheating on the Defsport rotors. The rear ST43's did get some bad transfer though so I know they're working hard. The DTC-60 seemed to have higher initial bite at the expense of more difficult modulation under lighter braking.

                        Honestly, the Z32 brakes all around with the same DTC60 front, HT10 rear combo felt better on my S13 KA24DE than they did on my S14 with Def 4 piston front, Z32 rear. Probably because we were going a lot slower at the end of the straights. But, the brakes didn't feel as good as they should've on my S14 before this 6 piston upgrade. They really do feel better now and we were matching better braking BMW's with much more confidence at the last race.
                        Last edited by gills; 06-02-2017, 12:58 PM.
                        Core4 Motorsports
                        CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                        S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                        Comment


                        • Awesome. good to hear. I've been running something similar to your old setup on my S14.. superlite-4 w DTC70 on 11.75" rotors up front, Z32 rear with HT-10. I run a wilwood dual MC pedal setup as well, and have always had a problem with rear lockup. that's part of the reason I was looking for more aggressive front pads than the DTC.. I couldn't go down in friction in the back because they all have lower temp capacity as well and pedal effort would get really high (no brake booster- purely hydraulic)..

                          so I called Porterfield and they suggested I try the ST43 or ST46 (the above was a typo that I didn't proofread).. I bought a set and they've been sitting in my tool box ever since because I started racing the RX7 shortly after buying them and have not worn out the DTC70 yet.
                          Originally posted by SoSideways
                          I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                          '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                          '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
                            Awesome. good to hear. I've been running something similar to your old setup on my S14.. superlite-4 w DTC70 on 11.75" rotors up front, Z32 rear with HT-10. I run a wilwood dual MC pedal setup as well, and have always had a problem with rear lockup. that's part of the reason I was looking for more aggressive front pads than the DTC.. I couldn't go down in friction in the back because they all have lower temp capacity as well and pedal effort would get really high (no brake booster- purely hydraulic)..

                            so I called Porterfield and they suggested I try the ST43 or ST46 (the above was a typo that I didn't proofread).. I bought a set and they've been sitting in my tool box ever since because I started racing the RX7 shortly after buying them and have not worn out the DTC70 yet.
                            Ah, yea I always forget that you have a balance bar setup. Are you still racing the S14? What diff is in your car? You can run R-compound/slicks? If so, and I think you sprint race, go with their ST47's (or whatever is higher CoF than ST43) in the front and ST45's in the rear based on my experience now. With a 11.75" rotor you have a bit less leverage on the front as well.

                            Would you (or anyone reading this) be interested in a rear Wilwood caliper/rotor (11.75") solution? It annoys me every time I get pads for the rear Z32's that they are more expensive than the monster Wilwood 7420 pad shape pads. To have the same pad shape on both axles would be nice. The smallest piston area 4 piston Wilwood is 1.98 in^2 vs 1.77in^2 for the Z32 so this may require an inline proportioning valve (12% increase to rear). Going to a 12.76" rotor in the front would bring some bias back up front. But, 12.76" Spec37 rotors are almost $115 more per rotor than 12.2".

                            Ramble on....
                            Core4 Motorsports
                            CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                            S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                            Comment


                            • I have a pair of 1.125" dia 4 piston superlite calipers for sale too if you want to do a rear setup. The hydraulic bias is close to stock Z32.
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                              Comment


                              • I might be interested as I've been thinking about making my own kit. According to my maths (which could be wrong), even though you have a 12% increase in rear piston area it only moves the brake bias 2% to the rear. That doesn't take in to account the pressure drop due to the stock proportioning valve though.

                                I like the radial caliper mount setup. Is the bracket steel or aluminum?
                                98 240SX SCCA STUish

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