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12.2" Rotor, Wilwood Forged Superlite kit - S13/S14/Z32

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  • Def
    started a topic 12.2" Rotor, Wilwood Forged Superlite kit - S13/S14/Z32

    12.2" Rotor, Wilwood Forged Superlite kit - S13/S14/Z32

    Installation Instructions



    The hard anodizing builds up about a 0.001" thick layer, so it is advisable to run a lubricated bolt through the brackets fully before installation. This will give a proper bolt preload for the torque upon installation.

    Let me know if you guys have any questions about the instructions.

    UPDATE 12-11

    Kits are in my hands and shipping out rapidly, expect yours soon (if you paid). I'll announce post-GB kits that are available for sale after the GB kits have shipped.

    ENGINEERING DETAILS Added 9-2

    The design goal for the hat was a semi-floating design(the best possible with the Wilwood rotors - they cannot be fully floating in the space available). With this in mind, I have allowed for a radial slot where the rotor mounts to the hat that is equal to the thermal expansion between the two materials(iron and aluminum) at a plus or minus 1000 deg F delta. Therefore, the rotor and hat should be able to freely expand and contract at their different material-defined rates with minimal binding. This should keep the rotor from wanting to grow into a "cone" shape that the Wilwood hats force due to being solidly held on one side(threaded into the hats). The hat design keeps the cross sectional area high at all stress paths, yet uses a minimal amount of material. The total weight of the hat is 1.53 lbs, and the rotational inertia is about 40% less than the typical "flat cup" Wilwood rotor hat.

    The hardware kit uses mechanically deformed mil-spec lock nuts, as well as spring washers to maintain tension.

    The caliper bracket is made from 2024-T3 aluminum alloy, which has exceptional fatigue resistance as well as hardness and yield strength approaching that of mild steels and surpassing that of most grades of cast iron. This is a true structural "aircraft" alloy of aluminum, and is exactly what most bulkheads are made of in modern aircraft. The large cross sectional section enables a very stiff and strong bracket, and the usage of aluminum keeps the weight below 0.3 lbs.

    ...and don't worry, it's all been scienced:





    Don't worry about the distorted looking bracket - CATIA magnifies things around 1000x to make displacement visible. This FEA run was a rough assumption of Superman-style S chassis performance and its effect on the bracket. The loading assumption was all braking on the front wheels with 25" tires and total braking decelleration of a 3000 lb S-chassis at 1.5 G's. That would put actual real world braking in the ~1.8-2G range for this loading case. Max loads are around 8 ksi, which is a reasonable level for long term fatigue life without unncessary bulk(there isn't much room for a larger bracket honestly). So you should be able to pull ~2 G's under braking about 10-100 million times without worry. I just want to actually see one of you guys pull that much braking force somewhere.

    Total displacement at the lug mounting holes is about 0.0015" at this braking, so very low. The stock spindle is going to be deflecting more than that I suspect.

    The FEA analysis did bring about a few design minor design changes, so they're not just pretty pictures.

    Pushing it beyond the S-chassis aftermarket "well it works I guess" phase, kids!


    INITIAL POST

    Got the v2 brackets in(that are designed to actually fit... amazing concept!). Here's some brake pron:



    Brackets are made from 2024-T3 "aircraft aluminum" - this is the same stuff they use to make bulkheads and brackets in aircraft due to its high strength and fatigue resistance. Hats are 6061-T6 to keep the cost reasonable.



    You know it, son!



    The rotors will be held to the hat with Grade 8 bolts, high temperature spring washers(belleville washers), and military spec "jet nuts." These are high temperature, vibration resistant nuts used on military aircraft. They're also the same nuts PFC uses on all their brake kits.



    Back side



    If you want to add Speedbleeders to your Wilwood FSL calipers - here's the Russell p/n(it/s a 1/4-28 bleeder). So now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


    "So how's it all look Def?" you ask - budget baller of course!




    But does it all fit well? You bet your ugly ass it does!



    Pistons are fully retracted on both sides. As you can see - fitment is perfect.


    Bracket looks budget baller:





    GB run will have both the hat and bracket hard anodized a gunmetal grey.


    Pricing for (2) hats and (2) brackets is $320, (1) mil-spec rotor hardware kit is $30. Shipping is an extra $15. The final kit pricing(before shipping) of $350 included EVERYTHING you need to bolt the below-linked calipers and rotors to your car. It is a bolt-on kit that anybody can install with a few hand tools.

    Parts list and price breakdown vs. the $1000 Wilwood kit for S13/S14:

    Def's kit:

    Hat + brackets = $320
    Rotor Hardware Kit = $30
    <---Hat + Bracket + Hardware kit is what the GB is for!
    WIL-120-11133 FSL Caliper (x2) = $150x2 = $300
    WIL-160-2894 12.2x1.25" rotor (R) = $42
    WIL-160-2895 12.2x1.25" rotor (L) = $42
    Wilwood BP-10 pads(although I recommend Hawks) = $60


    Total = $794 (comparing to what Wilwood kit comes with)

    Wilwood's kit street price is over $200 more for a 12.9x1.1" rotor kit with the same calipers. Wilwood leaves you also needing to purchase the lines, and for that I recommend the WIL-220-9199 ($60)brake line kit if it's in stock. I can post up specs for fittings and line lengths if you want to save approximately $15 and build your own(they're identical when it's all said and done).

    Advantages of this kit

    1. Weight savings - Save approximately 18-20 lbs over a 30mm Z32 front setup, about 25-27 lbs over an EVO/STi Brembo setup
    2. Low running costs - $42 rotors, and pads that are ~40% thicker and about 40-50% cheaper than Z32 pads will have the kit paying for itself if you track your car. Let the huge economies of scale of the circle track guys work for you!
    3. Race bred caliper design - lighter and most likely stiffer than a Z32 caliper - the Forged Superlite is good stuff.
    4. More brake cooling up front - the cooling channel in these wider rotors and directional vanes pump a huge amount more air than Z32 front brakes. This should keep brake temps down all things equal.

    Alternative brake pads I recommend(LPIRacing does free shipping for any order over $100 - definitely a bargain! I get all my pads from these guys!):

    -Hawk HT-10 for track usage - low cost, more difficult to bed
    -Hawk HPS for street usage
    -Hawk DTC-60 for track usage - easy bedding

    I'll be taking orders for a few weeks then start production. If you want the rotor hats and brackets, I highly suggest jumping in on the GB. I do not expect to have significant extras.

    Parts Price = $320+30 = $350

    Shipping is $15 in the lower 48 states. Contact me for overseas shipping quotes.


    List:
    *No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

    1. McCoy
    2. annoyed
    3. No Rotr
    4.
    5. Ando
    6. Scole - 4 lug
    7. s13_wave
    8. Dark horse
    9. Ross
    10. Geno
    11. mattah
    12. g81981
    13. SoSideways
    14. Ruff Ryder 6
    15. Sleepy_Steve
    16. Bumnah
    17. 240ian
    18. Zhanshi
    19. oldschoolrice
    20. Buddha
    21. Equinox
    22. koeprototypes

    Total: 21
    Last edited by Def; 12-11-2010, 11:03 AM. Reason: Engineering awesomeness added

  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    Understood. I'll shoot you a pm when I get home

    Leave a comment:


  • Cbettis87
    replied
    Originally posted by RalliartRsX View Post
    In all honesty, I would be more obliged to purchase without rotors (just brakcets, hats and hardware).

    That and as you mentioned, Rotor prices (and shipping) has gone up in recent times, so you won't be losing your ass too much on those!
    I'm definitely in for a bracket hat and hardware kit ( helps soften the blow to my bank account after my recent 1600 dollar jd2 model 32 hydro bender purchase)

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    ...... I got a dealer account to save people money on the Wilwood bits where I can. Calipers and pads are cheaper through me than over the internet, as I sell them below minimum adv. price.

    The DefSport stuff by itself is just going to cost you more in the long run.

    Leave a comment:


  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    In all honesty, I would be more obliged to purchase without rotors (just brakcets, hats and hardware).

    That and as you mentioned, Rotor prices (and shipping) has gone up in recent times, so you won't be losing your ass too much on those!

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    I can't get anybody to respond to me for a dealer account for heavy duty rotors that aren't $250+/pr shipped.

    So I guess I'll go ahead and put up a new thread and sign up list for another GB with the caveat that I have ~3-4 pairs of light duty rotors, and after that I'll just knock off approximate street pricing and sell them without rotors. I'm kinda killing myself with shipping rotors twice in small volume, so it's got to either be a place that will drop ship rotors for a reasonable shipping cost, or have guys pick them up on their own. I'll supply a few part numbers and recommendations to help with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • RalliartRsX
    replied
    Any more word on this Def??

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    The rotors and hats aren't threaded. Wilwood threaded hats are 5/16-18, but the DefSport kit uses 5/16-24 x 1" bolts and -5 jet nuts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt93SE
    replied
    all of the Coleman rotors I've used in the past are 5/16-24..

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    It's standard, 5/16 fine thread hardware. I think the jet nuts are 3/8" hex, since the small sizes are 1/16" + bolt major dia.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sleepy_Steve
    replied
    So Defy-poo, what size are the hardware bolts on the rotor rings? I'm assuming standard. 10mm and 12mm didn't work at all lol.

    Sitting in PB blaster for now while I wait to upgrade to the HD rotors

    Leave a comment:


  • Z28ricer
    replied
    This shot from the 350Z dimensions shows the spot i'd need to measure, might be able to compare a few drawings and come up with it I guess. Its at the bottom right edge of the caliper, 4.45" on that kit

    Leave a comment:


  • Z28ricer
    replied
    Their drawing is just lacking for where I'd need to measure, the side view "mount height" where it's 2.85" at the top edge of where the pistons are is what I need except along the bottom edge, that's where the potential for interference is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied
    From outer edge of stock spindle caliper mount is 1.56" + 2.15". Outside radius is 6.85" from center of hub.

    Leave a comment:


  • Def
    replied

    Leave a comment:

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