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12.2" Rotor, Wilwood Forged Superlite kit - S13/S14/Z32

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  • 12.2" Rotor, Wilwood Forged Superlite kit - S13/S14/Z32

    Installation Instructions



    The hard anodizing builds up about a 0.001" thick layer, so it is advisable to run a lubricated bolt through the brackets fully before installation. This will give a proper bolt preload for the torque upon installation.

    Let me know if you guys have any questions about the instructions.

    UPDATE 12-11

    Kits are in my hands and shipping out rapidly, expect yours soon (if you paid). I'll announce post-GB kits that are available for sale after the GB kits have shipped.

    ENGINEERING DETAILS Added 9-2

    The design goal for the hat was a semi-floating design(the best possible with the Wilwood rotors - they cannot be fully floating in the space available). With this in mind, I have allowed for a radial slot where the rotor mounts to the hat that is equal to the thermal expansion between the two materials(iron and aluminum) at a plus or minus 1000 deg F delta. Therefore, the rotor and hat should be able to freely expand and contract at their different material-defined rates with minimal binding. This should keep the rotor from wanting to grow into a "cone" shape that the Wilwood hats force due to being solidly held on one side(threaded into the hats). The hat design keeps the cross sectional area high at all stress paths, yet uses a minimal amount of material. The total weight of the hat is 1.53 lbs, and the rotational inertia is about 40% less than the typical "flat cup" Wilwood rotor hat.

    The hardware kit uses mechanically deformed mil-spec lock nuts, as well as spring washers to maintain tension.

    The caliper bracket is made from 2024-T3 aluminum alloy, which has exceptional fatigue resistance as well as hardness and yield strength approaching that of mild steels and surpassing that of most grades of cast iron. This is a true structural "aircraft" alloy of aluminum, and is exactly what most bulkheads are made of in modern aircraft. The large cross sectional section enables a very stiff and strong bracket, and the usage of aluminum keeps the weight below 0.3 lbs.

    ...and don't worry, it's all been scienced:





    Don't worry about the distorted looking bracket - CATIA magnifies things around 1000x to make displacement visible. This FEA run was a rough assumption of Superman-style S chassis performance and its effect on the bracket. The loading assumption was all braking on the front wheels with 25" tires and total braking decelleration of a 3000 lb S-chassis at 1.5 G's. That would put actual real world braking in the ~1.8-2G range for this loading case. Max loads are around 8 ksi, which is a reasonable level for long term fatigue life without unncessary bulk(there isn't much room for a larger bracket honestly). So you should be able to pull ~2 G's under braking about 10-100 million times without worry. I just want to actually see one of you guys pull that much braking force somewhere.

    Total displacement at the lug mounting holes is about 0.0015" at this braking, so very low. The stock spindle is going to be deflecting more than that I suspect.

    The FEA analysis did bring about a few design minor design changes, so they're not just pretty pictures.

    Pushing it beyond the S-chassis aftermarket "well it works I guess" phase, kids!


    INITIAL POST

    Got the v2 brackets in(that are designed to actually fit... amazing concept!). Here's some brake pron:



    Brackets are made from 2024-T3 "aircraft aluminum" - this is the same stuff they use to make bulkheads and brackets in aircraft due to its high strength and fatigue resistance. Hats are 6061-T6 to keep the cost reasonable.



    You know it, son!



    The rotors will be held to the hat with Grade 8 bolts, high temperature spring washers(belleville washers), and military spec "jet nuts." These are high temperature, vibration resistant nuts used on military aircraft. They're also the same nuts PFC uses on all their brake kits.



    Back side



    If you want to add Speedbleeders to your Wilwood FSL calipers - here's the Russell p/n(it/s a 1/4-28 bleeder). So now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


    "So how's it all look Def?" you ask - budget baller of course!




    But does it all fit well? You bet your ugly ass it does!



    Pistons are fully retracted on both sides. As you can see - fitment is perfect.


    Bracket looks budget baller:





    GB run will have both the hat and bracket hard anodized a gunmetal grey.


    Pricing for (2) hats and (2) brackets is $320, (1) mil-spec rotor hardware kit is $30. Shipping is an extra $15. The final kit pricing(before shipping) of $350 included EVERYTHING you need to bolt the below-linked calipers and rotors to your car. It is a bolt-on kit that anybody can install with a few hand tools.

    Parts list and price breakdown vs. the $1000 Wilwood kit for S13/S14:

    Def's kit:

    Hat + brackets = $320
    Rotor Hardware Kit = $30
    <---Hat + Bracket + Hardware kit is what the GB is for!
    WIL-120-11133 FSL Caliper (x2) = $150x2 = $300
    WIL-160-2894 12.2x1.25" rotor (R) = $42
    WIL-160-2895 12.2x1.25" rotor (L) = $42
    Wilwood BP-10 pads(although I recommend Hawks) = $60


    Total = $794 (comparing to what Wilwood kit comes with)

    Wilwood's kit street price is over $200 more for a 12.9x1.1" rotor kit with the same calipers. Wilwood leaves you also needing to purchase the lines, and for that I recommend the WIL-220-9199 ($60)brake line kit if it's in stock. I can post up specs for fittings and line lengths if you want to save approximately $15 and build your own(they're identical when it's all said and done).

    Advantages of this kit

    1. Weight savings - Save approximately 18-20 lbs over a 30mm Z32 front setup, about 25-27 lbs over an EVO/STi Brembo setup
    2. Low running costs - $42 rotors, and pads that are ~40% thicker and about 40-50% cheaper than Z32 pads will have the kit paying for itself if you track your car. Let the huge economies of scale of the circle track guys work for you!
    3. Race bred caliper design - lighter and most likely stiffer than a Z32 caliper - the Forged Superlite is good stuff.
    4. More brake cooling up front - the cooling channel in these wider rotors and directional vanes pump a huge amount more air than Z32 front brakes. This should keep brake temps down all things equal.

    Alternative brake pads I recommend(LPIRacing does free shipping for any order over $100 - definitely a bargain! I get all my pads from these guys!):

    -Hawk HT-10 for track usage - low cost, more difficult to bed
    -Hawk HPS for street usage
    -Hawk DTC-60 for track usage - easy bedding

    I'll be taking orders for a few weeks then start production. If you want the rotor hats and brackets, I highly suggest jumping in on the GB. I do not expect to have significant extras.

    Parts Price = $320+30 = $350

    Shipping is $15 in the lower 48 states. Contact me for overseas shipping quotes.


    List:
    *No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

    1. McCoy
    2. annoyed
    3. No Rotr
    4.
    5. Ando
    6. Scole - 4 lug
    7. s13_wave
    8. Dark horse
    9. Ross
    10. Geno
    11. mattah
    12. g81981
    13. SoSideways
    14. Ruff Ryder 6
    15. Sleepy_Steve
    16. Bumnah
    17. 240ian
    18. Zhanshi
    19. oldschoolrice
    20. Buddha
    21. Equinox
    22. koeprototypes

    Total: 21
    Last edited by Def; 12-11-2010, 12:03 PM. Reason: Engineering awesomeness added
    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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  • #2
    Just out of curiosity, how do these compare to evo brembo brakes?
    1990 240sx - Aristo 2JZGTE, R154, GT37, Defsport Wilwood kit, KTS coilovers - daily driver
    1991 civic si - B18C5 / toda / ATS / hytech - autox
    2001 integra type R - Greddy td05-18g - garage queen

    Comment


    • #3
      I guess I did forget weight.

      In a nutshell, they are generally going to be the same cost or cheaper than a set of EVO/STi/G35/350Z Brembos, and save you about 22-25 lbs up front(imagine getting a wheel that is 12 POUNDS lighter - that's huge), and they're roughly the same size(EVO Brembos are ~12.6"x1.18" - so the Wilwoods are a little smaller in diameter, but wider which equals more cooling).

      They save about 18-20 lbs over 300ZX/Z32 30mm brakes. So you're saving right about 10 lbs per wheel and getting a wider rotor that's 1.2" larger in diameter.
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

      Comment


      • #4
        Notice the lustrous, milky finish on the trick aluminum parts, that's from the WP....whoops wrong site.








        It's almost mindblowing that these save that much weight and aren't made of papier-mache. Perfect option for the track frequenting 240SX enthusiast!
        ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
        ~2016 M3, daily driver

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Black R View Post
          Just out of curiosity, how do these compare to evo brembo brakes?
          Besides what def just mentioned about weight, don't forget that the pad and rotor costs are less for the wilwood setup and you are getting new calipers vs some eve takeoffs. Food for thought...

          For what it's worth I'll be paying for my set as soon as he's ready to take payments!
          -Monty

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, pad cost is about 50-65% of the average OEM caliper fitment for track pads, and the pads are thicker for the Wilwood FSLs. Just put a wheel on, and MB Weapons clear by a mile. I stuck my whole hand between the spokes and the caliper - so I don't see anybody having an issue with caliper clearance.
            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

            Comment


            • #7
              what about wheel diameter? what's the smallest that will fit?

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll post up a pic of them under my wheels tomorrow. I imagine they'd fit any 16's, maybe a few 15's, but that's pushing it. I'm going to say as long as you have about 13.25-13.5" of diametrical clearance where the caliper would sit(roughly right above the wheel bearing), then they should fit just fine.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nice kit.

                  But you always have to start a GB when I am out of cash ^^. 4 more weeks till the first pay..

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                  • #10
                    I'd need to know if these would fit under z32 16's. I use those fir autocross and don't want to switch to these and not be able to use those wheels anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm pretty sure they'll fit inside the wheel, and the spoke to caliper clearance is VERY similar to a set of Z32 brakes. I'd say at most you might need a thin spacer for a tad of caliper to spoke clearance.
                      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll go ahead and start a list. I don't plan to keep this open forever, so go ahead and show interest if you're serious. Payment will be due in a few weeks.

                        1. McCoy 1 set
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm curious... these calipers look thinner than Z32 30mm calipers. How much thinner are these?

                          I could use the extra few millimeters in clearance, so I don't have to run a 7mm spacer up front to fit the bigger and badder brakes if I don't have to!
                          http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

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                          • #14
                            Def what is the pad number or shape, I want to try to see how much the pads would cost locally.

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                            • #15
                              They use the Wilwood 7420 shape(.800" thick). Hawk number HB521(referred to as Superlite bridge bolt).

                              I'll take some measurements later tonight for those that are curious of fitment.
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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