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  • #31
    I don't mean to be a smart ass with this, but there isn't anything beneficial of a dedicated 'dual duty' vehicle. You give up too much towing for MPG, and vice versa.

    You'd be better off buying a beater later model F250, and then buying a better daily driver. You'll spend the same, and get 'the best' of both worlds.
    'Slicks on a car show me you care - broken axles show me you're trying'
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    • #32
      Originally posted by CodyAce View Post
      I don't mean to be a smart ass with this, but there isn't anything beneficial of a dedicated 'dual duty' vehicle. You give up too much towing for MPG, and vice versa.

      You'd be better off buying a beater later model F250, and then buying a better daily driver. You'll spend the same, and get 'the best' of both worlds.
      A partial downside is insurance and reg & taxes for 2 vehicles in CT (I hate CT), not to mention long trips in a vehicle that isn't very comfortable. And I think I want to get a giant dog soon and cart em around

      To be honest there's not even much I want for a daily that's out right now. I'll never rock RWD in winter again and would hate leaving a daily in the garage for 3-4 months of the year. Many fun AWD vehicles will still burn mpg. Which leaves it to FWD-- I don't mind the Kia Optima but it's not overly exciting.
      97 Kouki SR 240

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      • #33
        Originally posted by CodyAce View Post
        I don't mean to be a smart ass with this, but there isn't anything beneficial of a dedicated 'dual duty' vehicle. You give up too much towing for MPG, and vice versa.

        You'd be better off buying a beater later model F250, and then buying a better daily driver. You'll spend the same, and get 'the best' of both worlds.
        Maybe the pickup market is different in other parts of the country (has to be from TX...), but even beater diesel trucks go for ridiculous money here. Like more than my 4Runner money... by a lot. And from the stories I hear, maintenance costs on the big diesels are pretty out of sight with the usual problems (fuel system being a big $$$ item).

        And like I said earlier, my 4Runner is costing me around $200-400 more per year in gas than my old RSX Type S (insurance was like $100 cheaper, so almost a wash there). I'd say that's a pretty economical daily driver, and I wouldn't want to drive anything slower than that as a small car. So honestly, daily driver costs are almost a wash for a "moderate" tow vehicle vs. a slightly fun but still economical small car.


        I think you've got a point in that it doesn't make much sense to daily a tow vehicle that can pull a 30 ft enclosed trailer like a BAWS, but for your average open trailer with a pretty light S chassis on it, I don't think you're going to stress something that can do ~6-7k lbs too much. Maybe I'll have a different perspective once I do it a few times, but I ran the numbers on a dedicated tow vehicle, and the cost to insure plus register it every year basically pays for A LOT of fuel. It almost always comes out a loser having 2 road worthy vehicles to do the same thing you can do with 1.

        I should also qualify my statements in that I would probably want a huge rig if I were towing something 2000+ miles, but for a <200-300 mile tow that's relatively flat, I don't think you need a 10k+ tow limit vehicle to tow a 4-4.5k lb load.
        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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        • #34
          SUV's like suburbans around here depreciate a lot better (well faster) than the trucks or work vans. Pick ups, vans, and a 4wd option all increase cost by 40-60% around here at a minimum for the same thing.

          I get 15-16mpg around town on regular. My TL it replaced got 18mpg around town on a good day and that was on premium. So daily driver fuel cost is a wash for me. Insurance and registration costs are also a wash on those two vehicles.

          I get 13-14mpg towing the 240 on an open trailer @70-80mph average speed. And IF I ever need to tow anything bigger, it's rated for something retarded like 7900 lbs towing which would max out my 7000 GW open trailer kind of nicely. It also does well in the role of being a metal tent while I'm at the track.
          '95 240sx

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          • #35
            Yea, pickups hold their value REALLY well here. Like anything with a V8 and not >10 years old was still going for over $15k in semi-decent shape.
            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Def View Post
              And like I said earlier, my 4Runner is costing me around $200-400 more per year in gas than my old RSX Type S (insurance was like $100 cheaper, so almost a wash there). I'd say that's a pretty economical daily driver, and I wouldn't want to drive anything slower than that as a small car. So honestly, daily driver costs are almost a wash for a "moderate" tow vehicle vs. a slightly fun but still economical small car.
              What kinda mileage you getting with that 4runner though? I don't get shyt for mpg with my tacoma... Usually 15-16 in the summer and 12-13 in the winter.

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              • #37
                Averaging 22-22.8 mpg actual, 24.0-24.5 mpg OBC readout. Same commute gave me 28-30 mpg in the RSX depending on AC usage. 93 vs 87 makes a pretty big difference on evening out that cost.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                • #38
                  I'm kind of I'm the same boat now. What about a 2010-2011 BMW X5 35d? There are many available by me since they are coming off lease now. Although I have no experience with them, I think if you're interested in a German diesel you should maybe consider one as well. They are rated at 6000lbs tow capacity and personally I would trust the BMW more than the VW. I wouldn't buy either non-CPO without a 6 year/100k warranty though.
                  Core4 Motorsports
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                  • #39
                    CPO BMWs have gotten ridiculous in the past 8-10 years IMO, since used BMWs are such a crap shoot out of warranty.

                    It went from a few grand premium to closer to $5-10k depending on the model. While it might be a PITA, there's a lot of repairs you can do for $5-10k. Then again, some BMW models might bleed you more than that if you're unlucky.

                    Don't forget that a shady dealer will find ways to weasel out of the CPO warranty as well.


                    IMO, I'd still go Japanese in that price range. You'll suffer less depreciation, and IMO diesels offer a false sense of economy with the price of it these days. At least around here it's like 15-25% more expensive than regular.

                    Diesels do command a lot on the used market, but I think the "it's a used BMW with 100k+ mi" thing offsets that and then some.
                    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Def View Post
                      CPO BMWs have gotten ridiculous in the past 8-10 years IMO, since used BMWs are such a crap shoot out of warranty.

                      It went from a few grand premium to closer to $5-10k depending on the model. While it might be a PITA, there's a lot of repairs you can do for $5-10k. Then again, some BMW models might bleed you more than that if you're unlucky.

                      Don't forget that a shady dealer will find ways to weasel out of the CPO warranty as well.


                      IMO, I'd still go Japanese in that price range. You'll suffer less depreciation, and IMO diesels offer a false sense of economy with the price of it these days. At least around here it's like 15-25% more expensive than regular.

                      Diesels do command a lot on the used market, but I think the "it's a used BMW with 100k+ mi" thing offsets that and then some.
                      I somewhat agree on the CPO part. But, like anything else, If you are willing to travel and diligently search you can find a good deal. More exclusive/unique BMW models always depreciate very well. Toyota-like.

                      As for the used 100k+ BMW, yes, for newer ones I personally agree. The same can't be said for my 180k mile E30 325is that is the one of most reliable and best DD's that I have ever owned.

                      But, Bimmer-philes (which are a seriously thick-headed bunch) will disregard that especially if it's a desired model that is well taken care of. Generally, BMW's have great resale potential when you buy the right model.

                      So used Japanese SUVs in X5 price range that can tow and have luxury: Toyota Sequoia, and Land Cruiser? Both have piss poor fuel economy though, but similar to Tahoe and GC. Sequoia tow capacity: 7400lbs, Land Cruiser: 8200lbs. Both are going to be reliable and the Land Cruiser will for sure retain it's value, but, man, they are expensive!

                      A little cheaper would be the Nissan Armada. 9000 lbs tow capacity.

                      A different approach; what about Land Rover LR4's? Another very capable truck. My brother had an LR3 and I loved that thing. Towed his E36 M3 race car on steel open bed trailer with ease. Was also a dog on fuel though and reliability could bite you in the ass.
                      Core4 Motorsports
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                      • #41
                        Yep, I've owned 2 E36 M3s (one late model coupe, one 5 speed sedan which is pretty rare as well), and an E39 540i M-Sport which is probably one of the more rare models that have been made in the past decade or so (I think it was just over 1100 made).

                        X5s of any type except maybe the really rare sport versions depreciate pretty heavily due to how many of them there are, and that most the used buyers are the type to really weigh their decision on year and mileage. Even the rare $80k (IIRC) 4.6is E53's are in the mid teens now I believe.

                        A Nissan Pathfinder V8 has a towing capacity of 7k lbs I believe. The V6 can do 6k lbs which is pretty good. The '09 4th Gen 4Runner V8 can do 7300 lbs I believe (2WD), and the V6 can do 6300 lbs with a weight distributing receiver installed (aftermarket or V8 version).

                        I wouldn't wish a LR on my worst enemy. I'd go with an X5 WAAAAYYYYY before I'd consider one of those. Their resale reflects their horrid reliability.


                        If you want big, and relatively low running costs, it's hard to beat a Suburban. I'm not a huge fan of them, but they tow great, and get semi-decent gas mileage for their size and power. Plus you can then own an LSx engine, so you can join with all the V8 guys on this forum talking about how it's such a life changing engine to drive.
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Def View Post
                          Yep, I've owned 2 E36 M3s (one late model coupe, one 5 speed sedan which is pretty rare as well), and an E39 540i M-Sport which is probably one of the more rare models that have been made in the past decade or so (I think it was just over 1100 made).

                          X5s of any type except maybe the really rare sport versions depreciate pretty heavily due to how many of them there are, and that most the used buyers are the type to really weigh their decision on year and mileage. Even the rare $80k (IIRC) 4.6is E53's are in the mid teens now I believe.

                          A Nissan Pathfinder V8 has a towing capacity of 7k lbs I believe. The V6 can do 6k lbs which is pretty good. The '09 4th Gen 4Runner V8 can do 7300 lbs I believe (2WD), and the V6 can do 6300 lbs with a weight distributing receiver installed (aftermarket or V8 version).

                          I wouldn't wish a LR on my worst enemy. I'd go with an X5 WAAAAYYYYY before I'd consider one of those. Their resale reflects their horrid reliability.


                          If you want big, and relatively low running costs, it's hard to beat a Suburban. I'm not a huge fan of them, but they tow great, and get semi-decent gas mileage for their size and power. Plus you can then own an LSx engine, so you can join with all the V8 guys on this forum talking about how it's such a life changing engine to drive.
                          Ha! I'm assuming you're referring to this thread where the light finally shined down upon you?: http://www.nissanroadracing.com/show...?t=4713&page=8

                          I personally loved the LR3. Beautiful airy cabin, good driving dynamics for 6000 lbs, good towing capability, excellent off roading. Just risky reliability. My brother faired ok with his but did have some weird problems he fixed himself.

                          I didn't realize the 4th gen 4R had that much tow capability. So the standard pathfinder used to come with a V8? Or was that the Pathfinder-Armada? Now the 2 are totally separate? Armada is basically a Titan hence a 9000lbs tow capacity I guess. Haven't really followed Nissan much recently....

                          Those were some great BMWs to own!
                          Core4 Motorsports
                          CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                          S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

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                          • #43
                            Yep, the only thing people really recommend on the 4th gen 4runner is a trans cooler if you have a v6. V8 with tow package comes with a small one. I didnt get a V8 since the fuel cost is about 20-25% higher, and all the ones I found locally needed a timing belt done and the PO had been putting it off (sometimes for a long long time overdue). I felt the VVT 1GR 4L V6 was plenty to get things moving.

                            The R51 pathfinder is the previous generation. They didnt offer the VK56 the whole generation, but they did for a few years. That said, for towing an open trailer I think the VQ40 provides more than enough to get the job done comfortably. There are some reliability issues with the Pathfinder, but not up to BMW or certainly LR levels.

                            I felt the driving dynamics of the two were very different, much more than I was expecting. The 4runner reminds me more of an X5 (with a little rougher ride), while the Pathfinder felt more like a floppy truck with a better ride due to the soft rear IRS.

                            The one negative I saw mentioned a few times on the R51 Pathfinder is the trans won't lock the TC up in 4th gear, while the 4runner supposedly will. Which will keep temps down and help gas mileage while towing.


                            The E36s were pretty reliable, especially considering my 2nd one had 150k miles and mostly just needed stuff refreshed. The interior was getting a little tatty even with lots of work. The E39 was shockingly unreliable, and everything plastic in the engine bay was destroyed when you touched it. So a $100 job in the engine bay always became a $250+ job by the time you were finished. The car was 6 years old with 90k mi, so by now they've got to be even more of a nightmare to work on. I only owned the E39 for a year, and it was a TON of work to keep it to where I could get to work the next day. It also got HORRID gas mileage in the city. Like 12-14 mpg... Pretty decent on the highway at about 25-27 mpg. But even driving gently it was usually about 18-20 mpg. Give it any stick and it was mid teens. That got old with 93 octane on a daily driver. My 4runner I'd way cheaper on fuel with a much larger body and near the same displacement engine (4L vs 4.4L).
                            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                            • #44
                              I saw that the OP was looking for suv type of tow vehicle and wanted something used, Nissan just anounced that the titan will get a v8 cummins turbo diesel in 2015. Im sure your looking for something now but its info that will sway me possibly in the future.

                              http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...NEWS/130829971

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                              • #45
                                Sorry about beating the dead horse but this seems very interesting article I read before.

                                Cadillac Fleetwood, very comfy ride with 7000 lbs towing capacity. Definitely something to consider about.

                                http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorhea...g-65-1-roa0813

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