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Adding ABS to SM coupe Build

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  • Scores240
    started a topic Adding ABS to SM coupe Build

    Adding ABS to SM coupe Build

    Hey Guys, long time since I've made a thread and this has been a long time coming as my build has gotten a little more serious over the last 2 years. I'll start another thread on my full build one of these days, but the point of this one is on ABS parts.

    So far I've acquired from scavenging the junkyard, the entire system from a 300zx including the rear differential cover.


    I'm swapping to the S14 rear subframe at the same time I'm adding ABS to the car so that I can utilize the 300zx ABS diff cover and have a 4 channel setup and also benefit from the better suspension geometry.


    My problem since getting all of that equipment was locating the ABS Tone ring and Wheel speed sensors for the front of an S13. I solved the ABS spindle problem by getting the GKtech Grip spindles which have an ABS provision and left me looking for Rings and Sensors.


    Recently I purchased from a JDM importer in Canada a pair of ABS spindles with Sensors and Hubs w/ tone rings that was listed for the S13. Fast forward to today when they arrive and I tear into them discovering that the hubs don't fit my spindles, the tone rings don't fit my 5-lug hubs and the sensors are plastic bodied.




    I think that what I bought was actually from an S14 and that to use any of it, I need to dive into more custom work that I was hoping to avoid. You can notice in the picture of the spindle with sensor installed that the inner face is more vertical than it should be. I held the ring up to it over the spindle, trying to keep it centered and saw their interface is not similar to how it was before I disassembled the OE spindles.

    To make it all work I'd need to elongate the ABS hole in the spindle, which I'm not afraid to do, and machine either the Tone ring or the Hub or both until they fit. I roughly measured each and found a 1/4" difference between the diameters.

    If any of you guys out there have extra S13 ABS pieces, would you be willing to part ways with them or trade for my S14 parts ?

    Thoughts and questions ?

  • gills
    replied
    Originally posted by Scores240 View Post
    gills I haven't checked my ABS plumbing yet, i need to get to that and checking numerous other things with my Brake system.

    Being sent to China for 4 weeks on work duties has really put a damper on my progress with the car. I had to rebuild my long block and get it all in the car once I got back. Just got it all running this past weekend and now it seriously needs a retune.
    You'll get to it. Safe travels. Update this thread when you dig a little deeper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scores240
    replied
    gills I haven't checked my ABS plumbing yet, i need to get to that and checking numerous other things with my Brake system.

    Being sent to China for 4 weeks on work duties has really put a damper on my progress with the car. I had to rebuild my long block and get it all in the car once I got back. Just got it all running this past weekend and now it seriously needs a retune.

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Originally posted by Scores240 View Post
    That's a nice looking install, kinda makes me want to redo my install. Are those AN steel fittings ?

    Thanks! Yes, -3 AN steel tube nuts and sleeves with Nickel Copper ("NiCopp") hard line.


    Did you ever check to see if you were biasing on a diagonal instead of just the rear?

    Tube nuts: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3235

    And sleeves that fit underneath to back the flare and protect the tubing: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3236

    Leave a comment:


  • Scores240
    replied
    That's a nice looking install, kinda makes me want to redo my install. Are those AN steel fittings ?

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Some pictures of my install:






    My method of plugging the 2nd front port on non-ABS master:

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    OK, orientation/clocking of wheel speed sensors matters.


    Notice the orientation of E46 rear speed sensors. The mounting bolt is inline with the direction of rotation of the wheel/tone ring.


    Just to refresh your memory, here's the Nissan diff cover which mounts the sensors 90 degrees from the rotation of the tone rings:


    Here's rear speed sensor plots. Very slight drop offs causing faults and disabling ABS completely. Good news is that the brakes behave the same way they did without ABS at all with the system deactivated.



    Now this seems pretty obvious, but I assumed this was how the E46 sensors were mounted also. When I realized the 90 degree difference and brought it up to company that makes the custom harnesses for these, they said "they believe it shouldn't matter." Since it wasn't a concrete answer my gut knew that this was the issue. I never thought orientation would matter, but it does.

    SO, because there's not really material on the diff cover to just rotate these and have material to drill and tap, I welded some material and milled it flat (I'm getting pretty damn good at removing diffs now!). I did this very quickly with whatever material I could find so it looks a little sh!tty. Just needed it done quickly for my Watkins Glen event.



    Buttoned it all back up, hooked up the scanner and let it run in gear for about 15 minutes. ZERO FAULTS. Here's what the speed signals are supposed to look like:

    Butter smooth:



    In hindsight, perhaps it would've been better to just use the Z33 rear wheel speed sensors. The only customization required is that they need to be shimmed away from the tone ring since they would interfere as is. The depth of the E46 M3 sensor happens to be perfect. Again, pick your poison.

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Got the front spindles done with E46 sensors: http://nissanroadracing.com/forum/un...637#post172637

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Originally posted by clotuning View Post
    That makes more sense now because I read the bmw master cylinder is 25mm front piston and 20mm rear piston.

    Is there a nissan bmc thats similar?

    Right, they have staggered pistons, and most people jump to the conclusion that they will create different pressures. But, do the math and you will see that the pressures will be the same.

    Here someone measured the pressure of both outlets and confirmed that they are the same:

    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...86&postcount=2


    edit: so with that said, I'm using the Z32 BMC and leaving the internal prop valve in. If the MK60 unit were to ever fault during a race, I'd at least have that mechanical proportioning in place still as a fail safe.
    Last edited by gills; 03-14-2019, 07:44 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clotuning
    replied
    also these are 17/16 bmc (08 350z) on rockauto.com

    CARDONE SELECT 133160
    ACDELCO 18M2769

    Leave a comment:


  • clotuning
    replied
    That makes more sense now because I read the bmw master cylinder is 25mm front piston and 20mm rear piston.

    Is there a nissan bmc thats similar?

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Another discovery of the AP2 S2000 vs the BMW MK60 is that the BMW unit doesn't split the inputs from the master cylinder across diagonals on the car where the AP2 (and AP1) unit does. BMW unit splits the inputs front and rear. This is pretty significant from a performance perspective especially if dealing with balancing/proportioning upstream of the ABS module (i.e. Z32 masters, pedal boxes, prop valves, etc).

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Originally posted by clotuning View Post
    Oh yea did you end up drilling a hole for front sensor? Or bought different knuckles?

    I'll be drilling the upright. Hopefully by end of week or next week. Not much room for error here given the sensor can't be more than a mm away from ring and holding an upright to drill is awkward.

    Leave a comment:


  • clotuning
    replied
    Oh yea did you end up drilling a hole for front sensor? Or bought different knuckles?

    Leave a comment:


  • gills
    replied
    Originally posted by clotuning View Post
    How do people normally run/read diagnistic info with the bmw mk60?

    With the s2000 one I would assume u would wire up a separate obd2 plug out of it and then connect it to your scanner that has the ability to read abs module and gp from there.

    It's read through the K-line on the OBD2 port. So like you said, when you make a harness to retrofit the MK60 system you wire in a separate OBD2 plug that you use solely for diagnosing, running bleed routines, and in some instances program it. Apparently the S2000 doesn't work the same way as per Race Harness Technologies, but he's not finished doing his thing. He has a few more procedures to try before writing it off. I just had to bail because I want ABS for my first race.

    Again, just because diag info isn't accessible doesn't mean the S2000/MK60e1 can't be run standalone. You'll just be running it blindly if anything were ever to fault at this stage.

    Leave a comment:

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