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S13 Race Car Seat mounting and General Race Car Prep...

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  • #31
    30mm front bar sounds right to me. Especially if your spring rates aren't that high.

    For road course no power steering would be fine. I drove a S13 without PS at an autocross and I found the tight stuff a little difficult. I'd personally run it and if it goes out, no big deal.

    The Megan hardened rubber bushings are decent. A user did a back to back comparsion with them and poly, he liked the Megan Bushings much better.
    Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
    TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

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    • #32
      30mm isn't bad, I'd run it up front. -- For the rear bar, I'd try to hit up a track day or autocross with the thing before its first real event and test it with the stock rear bar in place, and then unhooked. Let a couple of your team's drivers have a go in the thing, and make the setup call based on lap time and driver opinion.

      I'd rather just run some thicker bump stops on the GR2's than try to use spacers to increase ride height. With spacers you'd still be risking blowing out the struts just as fast. Honestly just throw the springs on the car and see what happens. I'd rather loose compression travel than start blowing out struts.

      Yes, you're correct on the helical. If you can lift one wheel into the air and it doesn't want to turn, odds are good its a viscous unit. -- Get a 4.6 R&P in that thing.


      I can't help you on PS, maybe someone else can chime in on that?
      '95 240sx

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      • #33
        depending on the track, the 4.1 might be faster than the 4.6.. I ran the 4.6 at a mid-length track and was slower because I had to shift into 5th gear on every straight, and 5th is taller than 4th gear with a 4.1.

        Power steering.. for a 45 min sprint race, I run without it. for a 2+hour enduro stint, you will want to keep the power steering in a car this heavy. After a weekend of racing with ~1.5hrs on track per day, my shoudlers are sore. I would not recommend trying to do an enduro, especially if you have any people that have small shoulders/low endurance.

        on the struts, the GR2 are not that great but they're about the best you can get for cheapola. you might be able to find some used Koni/bilsteins for cheap though... keep your eyes open and you never know what you can find.

        An S14 rear subframe is "nice", but it's not necessary to go fast. I would get the car together in stockish form and get through a race or two before you deal with all of the work to install bigger brakes, S14 subframe, change diffs, etc..

        keep the thing close to stock and it stays reliable. the more you mod it, the harder it is to work on, the less reliable it is, and the more replaacement parts cost.

        FIRST, put your money in reliability and "maintenance". make sure you have a new/good water pump, NEW BELTS, new/rebuilt calipers, and get your safety stuff in order.

        for the first-time racer, that much above is sometimes a tall order. So many people spend their trying to make it "fast", but they forget that it has to pass tech first, and then finish 14+hrs on track in a weekend. It simply doesn't matter how fast the car is if you can't start and finish the race, or spend the whole weekend in the pits wrenching on ****.

        - Matt
        veteran LeMons racer + 10yr SCCA member.
        Finished 3 of 7 LeMons races with the team car "maintained by committee"
        Finished every single SCCA club race run in MY car- 3 seasons/45 races, and counting. 3rd place in Southwest Division 2011, 2012. Ranked 9th overall in USA 2012.
        Originally posted by SoSideways
        I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
        '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
        '96 240SX- The Track Toy

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
          depending on the track, the 4.1 might be faster than the 4.6.. I ran the 4.6 at a mid-length track and was slower because I had to shift into 5th gear on every straight, and 5th is taller than 4th gear with a 4.1.

          Power steering.. for a 45 min sprint race, I run without it. for a 2+hour enduro stint, you will want to keep the power steering in a car this heavy. After a weekend of racing with ~1.5hrs on track per day, my shoudlers are sore. I would not recommend trying to do an enduro, especially if you have any people that have small shoulders/low endurance.

          on the struts, the GR2 are not that great but they're about the best you can get for cheapola. you might be able to find some used Koni/bilsteins for cheap though... keep your eyes open and you never know what you can find.

          An S14 rear subframe is "nice", but it's not necessary to go fast. I would get the car together in stockish form and get through a race or two before you deal with all of the work to install bigger brakes, S14 subframe, change diffs, etc..

          keep the thing close to stock and it stays reliable. the more you mod it, the harder it is to work on, the less reliable it is, and the more replaacement parts cost.

          FIRST, put your money in reliability and "maintenance". make sure you have a new/good water pump, NEW BELTS, new/rebuilt calipers, and get your safety stuff in order.

          for the first-time racer, that much above is sometimes a tall order. So many people spend their trying to make it "fast", but they forget that it has to pass tech first, and then finish 14+hrs on track in a weekend. It simply doesn't matter how fast the car is if you can't start and finish the race, or spend the whole weekend in the pits wrenching on ****.

          - Matt
          veteran LeMons racer + 10yr SCCA member.
          Finished 3 of 7 LeMons races with the team car "maintained by committee"
          Finished every single SCCA club race run in MY car- 3 seasons/45 races, and counting. 3rd place in Southwest Division 2011, 2012. Ranked 9th overall in USA 2012.

          Thanks for the advise, Matt. Nice resumé! I'm not quite a newbie at this. I've been running HPDE's for 9 years now in my mildly prepped 04 STi and more recently (since June 2011) Lemons races with my work team in a competitive 1985 Alfa Romeo Milano (Team Pro-Crash-Duh-Nation). Being exposed to and part of an existing team has showed me what's really important (which is being addressed at the moment). I just like to research about specific car nuances ad nauseam for when I'm ready to actually start tapping performance.

          We are all pretty physically fit guys. At this point we are 50/50 on ditching power steering. Not sure how long a 240 can stay out on track on a full tank of gas. What kind of fuel economy are you guys getting on track?
          Core4 Motorsports
          CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
          S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

          Comment


          • #35
            Going off what I do on 225 street tires and not a ton of power... I'm normally averaging about 70-80mph depending on the track I do about 10mpg. 16 gallon tank or so... 90-120 minutes?

            My math seems like its off, can you really get a solid 2 hours out of our cars with stockish power on the stock tank?

            I've recorded as low as 8mpg, but as high as 12, I'm just doing HPDE's though so I don't track it too closely. Just enough to avoid buying track gas in the middle of the day.
            '95 240sx

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            • #36
              On track, my car burns about 10 gal/hour.
              I have an S14 and the fuel tank can be run nearly completely dry before fuel starvation. (and I run 245 Hoosiers w/ aero...)

              Thus, an S14 will get roughly 1.5hrs on track per tank.
              If you install a fuel cell, you can do a bit better but most groups have like a limit on cell size now..

              on the power steering.. on DOT tires and if you don't run a ton of caster, you might be able to get away with no power steering. I would still recommend keeping it in. I tracked my car for about 5-6 years with zero steering problems before I stripped mine out.
              ...........truth be told, I damaged a line going off course. this weakened the pump.. it died at the next track day, so I just drained the fluid, looped the lines, found a crank-water pump belt the right size, and never looked back....
              Originally posted by SoSideways
              I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
              '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
              '96 240SX- The Track Toy

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
                On track, my car burns about 10 gal/hour.
                I have an S14 and the fuel tank can be run nearly completely dry before fuel starvation. (and I run 245 Hoosiers w/ aero...)

                Thus, an S14 will get roughly 1.5hrs on track per tank.
                If you install a fuel cell, you can do a bit better but most groups have like a limit on cell size now..

                on the power steering.. on DOT tires and if you don't run a ton of caster, you might be able to get away with no power steering. I would still recommend keeping it in. I tracked my car for about 5-6 years with zero steering problems before I stripped mine out.
                ...........truth be told, I damaged a line going off course. this weakened the pump.. it died at the next track day, so I just drained the fluid, looped the lines, found a crank-water pump belt the right size, and never looked back....
                10 gal/hour is a little higher than I had hoped for this car, but I'm assuming that's with you having pretty open track and ripping it most of that time. Does the S13 suffer from fuel starvation issues in comparison to the S14? My work team's Alfa can stay out on track for 2.5-3 hours and I believe its tank size is similar to the S14 (~17.2 gallons) and that has a 2.5L V6 making similar power. Hopefully there's not fuel starvation issues with the S13.
                Core4 Motorsports
                CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                Comment


                • #38
                  Matt, I'm surprised to hear you have no fuel starve issues. I have had them in my S14 and don't like to run it much lower than a 1/4 tank.
                  Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
                  TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    S14's like to have the pre-pump fuel sock working correctly.
                    '95 240sx

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                    • #40
                      I checked the sock and it looks fine. It got better after I took everything out, inspected it all, and put it back in. I have a hunch it was wasn't 100% secure before I did that. However, with the sticky Hoosiers and aero, it will still starve if I let it get too low.
                      Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
                      TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        My only other thought is that on stockish engine, I just don't suck enough fuel out that it becomes a problem. on a 500hp car that's on full-boil, it uses a lot more fuel and might suck down the reserve inside the stock baffling a bit quicker, resulting in starvation.

                        Only once did I ever notice a starvation issue, and it was when the tank was nearly dry on a 80mph carousel where I'm sustaining >1G for 15 seconds. The engine was still (barely) pulling, but I could hear the fuel pump sucking air and growling at me. soon as I got to the straight, it would get quiet again. Did that for two laps before I decided not to tempt fate and came in.

                        That was the lowest I'd ever run the tank, as I started the session on about 1/8tank thinking I'd only get a few qualifying laps due to traffic, then wound up getting a good run and just stayed out for nearly 30 min..

                        Anyway, yeah.. never had a problem in my car other than that one outlier.
                        Originally posted by SoSideways
                        I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                        '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                        '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                        Comment

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