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multidisc clutch choice for a ca / sr S13

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  • multidisc clutch choice for a ca / sr S13

    Hey guys,

    i am looking for clutch options for my s13 ,and took a glimpse at competition clutch twin disc and spec minitwin clutches. I am looking for infos on how much these are usable. The car is mostly a trackday car, and the engine is a CA which will have an SR clutch / flywheel installed. It is still being "built" since the .72 IWG G25 550 is still unavailable. It will probably end up with a z33 gearbox conversion, unless i can find a cheap used il300 or something similar. It may also end up with a 660 or bigger and a narrower power band, but that will not happen anytime soon.

    The thing is, the only experience i have with multidisc clutches are bikes.

    So my question is, are these kind of clutches usable on a street / track car ? Can it survive getting stuck in traffic while going to the track ? Is it going to last 3 trackdays before needing a replacement ? Is it a giant pain in the ass to use ?

    I think someone on this forum installed a spec minitwin (def maybe ? ) but i cannot remember.

    Thanks for any info you can provide on this. Cheers




  • #2
    turtl631 can chime in with his experiences since he's still using it. But I used an AP Racing flywheel (~7.5 lb total weight I want to say, VERY low inertia) and a Tilton 7.25" OT-II with a grey spring, ultra-high ratio pressure plate, and 2 cerametallic "rally" clutch discs (I think it's rated for like 650 ft-lbs in this config, something absurdly high).

    Pedal pressure was very good on the stock S13 clutch hydraulics, honestly thought it was going to be super stiff. I calc'd it out as being about 40-45 lbf of pedal pressure, and I'd say that's about right. Basically just a hair above what you can push with your hand if you're sitting on the ground next to the car for instance. A "stiff" clutch is more in the 60-75 lbf range I'd say, while a light clutch is in the ~20-30 lbf range.

    The takeoff on the AP Racing flywheel + aluminum crank pulley was honestly pretty tough. I never stalled it, but it didn't leave much room for error, and I'd hate to have to get up a hill from a stop with it. Putting the stock crank pulley on made it quite a bit better by giving everything some more inertia. turtl631 added a Comp 7.25" flywheel that added a bit more inertia still and he says it's pretty easy to drive around now.

    Engagement was always surprisingly easy with the cerametallic discs. I'd say it's 10x easier to drive than an ACT HD pressure plate and their 6 puck unsprung cerametallic disc. But engagement is still more "positive" than a stock SR disc on the same ACT HD pressure plate (and 10 lb Toda flywheel).


    turtl631 did a Z33 gearbox swap, so he got to see the disc wear after maybe 1000 miles or so. I think they looked about new from what I recall, check his build thread.


    The thing to keep in mind with all the off the shelf SR 7.25" clutches is that they all use sintered bronze discs. I have driven a triple disc 5.5" bronze clutch in an E36 M3, and it's definitely much more of an on-off switch, especially with heat in the clutch. You can maybe get a tiny bit of slip the first start (like a harsh cerametallic amount of slip), then after that it's like a light switch. The bronze discs also wear pretty quickly from my experience, at least if you street drive them at all. They're really not designed to slip at all, so the service interval goes to like 5-10k mi at best, and they tend to really heat up other parts like floaters/PP when you street drive them too, so not sure how reusable all that stuff will be. The cerametallic discs are over twice as thick, with big friction pads and lower coefficients of friction static and dynamic, so peak temps will be way lower than sintered bronze.



    So if you want something pretty racey, I'd get that used AP Racing flywheel from turtl631, then pair it with the same clutch he's running (Tilton OT-II with grey spring, ultra high ratio PP, 2 rally cerametallic clutch discs). Should be quite a bit cheaper than a full ACT/Spec 7.25", and offer longer life.
    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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    • #3
      I see Quartermaster also has twin cerametallic clutches in their V-drive line. That would probably be cheaper overall since the discs come with it. I think 1" x 24 spline is what you want from memory:

      https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/quar...sembly-246947/
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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      • #4
        The car is pretty drivable now. I drove it in stop and go rush hour freeway traffic coming home from Road America a few months ago and it was fine. Handles some slippage no problem. Keep in mind, my daily is an auto so I'm not the best manual driver at this point. Wear when I replaced the flywheel was negligible. I'll make you a good deal on the flywheel! Would be nice to see it go to a forum member.
        ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
        ~2016 M3, daily driver

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        • #5
          Wow, thanks for the quick and quality answers, this is exactly what i was looking for. Nrr does not disappoint

          I did not know these were somewhat standard items, and the difference in material. I will check some things with my tuner tonight (it is 11AM now here) as he was interested too.

          I am grateful for your offer turtl631 but bear in mind i live on the other side of the planet (France), so shipping might be a pain. Still, tell me how much you want for it, it will not be the first time i buy stuff from nrr



          For reference my previous setup was a SPEC stage3 clutch with and XTD light flywheel (12lbs), so sprung carbon semi-metallic 6 puck disc. I'll be keeping the previous engine and might throw it on a mk indy chassis one day, or something similar (chances are it will actually stay in my cave and rot for 5 years before i decide to sell it ... but who knows)

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          • #6
            The only commonly available 7.25" flywheels available for the SR that I can recall are made by ACT (pretty low inertia), SPEC (pretty low inertia), and Comp Clutch (a little higher inertia). Any 6 bolt 7.25" clutch will work on them (commonly use 5/16 or M8 fasteners), but you need to make sure your clutch cover/PP/floater/disc stack up will all work together. So the clutch itself probably needs to be purchased by itself.

            The nice thing on a 7.25" clutch is you can get a disc pack for pretty cheap (<$200 USD), and the floaters/PP will probably last for at least 1-2 clutch disc changes. The cover should last for even longer.
            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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            • #7
              Ok then. I am still undecided about the clutch, since i have trouble finding torque rating for the quarter master. That ap racing flywhelel and the quarter master clutch should be budget friendly enough

              From their catalog and various sellers torque claims, i can work out that i need a grey spring (the blue one would be near the limit), or stiffer. The color code might be the same as tilton's.

              I do have trouble finding a place that sells the kit and let the user chose the diaphragm spring though. I found one that offers white (which is the strongest by quarter master standard) and "super HD" which is supposed to be even stronger, and undefined in their catalog. I'll ask the dealers directly i guess.

              Another "problem" i have is i cannot find 1" x 24 application from quartermaster website. It is on their 2016 catalog, but not on their 2018 website. I hope it is not discontinued.

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              • #8
                There's no way a CA/SR actually "needs" the Tilton grey spring, it just provides a reasonable release feel. The orange is fine too. Grey is Tilton OT-II twin disc with "rally" plates is rated at 820 ft-lbs with the ultra-high ratio PP. Orange is 670 ft-lbs.

                There's a safety factor on that torque rating too, so it's a true at the flywheel capacity.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                • #9
                  Ok so colors do not match at all.
                  This engine should end up around 475ft.lb in that configuration, i am rounding that to 500 for potential evolution. quarter master says to add 25% to select components, so that is 625ft.lb, which translates slightly over the top of their blue spring and at the bottom of the grey spring. So tilton orange is grey quartermaster. No standard colors there.

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                  • #10
                    I will investigate shipping to France.
                    ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
                    ~2016 M3, daily driver

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                    • #11
                      ok, i sent you my address in a private message . thanks

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by croustibat View Post
                        Ok so colors do not match at all.
                        This engine should end up around 475ft.lb in that configuration, i am rounding that to 500 for potential evolution. quarter master says to add 25% to select components, so that is 625ft.lb, which translates slightly over the top of their blue spring and at the bottom of the grey spring. So tilton orange is grey quartermaster. No standard colors there.
                        Yes, it's not standard. Just a way to rate them and identify them after sale. Like I said, the grey Tilton OT-II spring was very reasonable on pedal effort. I'd equate it to just a touch more than a stockish replacement clutch, but below that of an ACT HD pressure plate. So a Tilton orange plate will be a tad lighter, and I definitely wouldn't go lighter than that just in the interest of control feel.
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                        • #13
                          Ok then, i'll be installing a new clutch on your ap racing flywheel Thanks for the info, and thanks turl for the flywheel.
                          I would have bought a sintered one otherwise

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