Kit/Custom car builds?

[RBbugBITme]

Anyone on here ever go through a build, especially a street legal one? I'm considering my options right now and will either buy a new car in the next year and keep the 240 for track only or just clean up the 240 a lot and start designing a street legal 2 or 3 seater turbo busa powered tube frame car. Did some research on legalizing it and it seems quite do-able so I'm leaning toward that option while I'm young and fresh off the FSAE build.

[a_ahmed]

Well locost/lotus 7 are pretty friendly and have large online communities adhering to them...

[veilside180sx]

I've been researching a lot on building a Locost or Atomish build. The hard part is just deciding on donor parts, and what you want to do with it. I'm still on the fence and haven't made a decision.

Mine will most likely be SR powered whether it's a FWD or RWD donor.

[RBbugBITme]

Yeah I've been searching around for stuff on them. Not interested in that style car though. More of a DSR for the street kind of thing.

[a_ahmed]

It is ugly but it handles... seen and met a few locally actually... some old guys lol... they made me want one, until i went through a phase of more realistically wanting an mr2 mk1, and then furthermore running down to getting a 240sx... boohoo :P

However, that being said.. check out what the donkervoort guys have done including the one with an F1 style front wing, coupe as it appears (non-open top) and massive rear wing... it set a crazy record on the nurburgring... yeah maybe not what you're looking for with a daily legal one... but it does look sexy and offsets the uglyiness of the usual lotus 7

Honestly donkervoort have done so many variations of the lotus 7 its crazy.. so you can get alot of inspiration from them.. if you so chose to go in that direction.

Edit:

This for instance is pretty sexy and is more daily oriented than all out track crazy:

http://www.donkervoort.nl/images/cars/D8GT/1.jpg

[RBbugBITme]

That is a pretty car. My big concern is the body. I have zero experience with body work so it should be fun. No clue either on donor parts but I shouldn't need to much, most of it will be custom or off the shelf stuff for DSRs or similar cars.

The Drexel FSAE drivetrain is pretty much identical to what I'd use and I'll modify the uprights to take higher loads. My own SLA suspension and chassis since I have access to Ansys, Mitchell, and ProE. My own dry sump system and turbo set up. I'll be shooting for 200-225hp on the stock internals and pump gas.

The driving purpose for me is to build something I know I can drive, not daily, but often and really enjoy it. I want to drive it from Pittsburgh to Wildwood and feel confident that it'll make it there and back. Quite a challenge and I expect 1 year or so of design time so I assume I won't start building realistically for 2 to 3 years which will give me time to get the 240 up to a good looking reliable level.

[ecugrad]

A friend of mine built a 7 clone powered by a R1 bike motor. It freakin' SCREAMS.

http://www.underwood-racing.com/project_seven.htm

He tells me above 100mph it gets kinda tough because of the aero, its like hitting a brick wall.

[RBbugBITme]

I imagine. I'm leaning towards a closed cockpit and should get to analyze the body in Flowizard so I can avoid that problem and hopefully get some useful downforce out of it.

[Lordrandall]

I'd like to build a GTM someday

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html

[Ruff Ryder 6]

I'd like to build a GTM someday

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html

I'm right there with ya buddy. I mentioned it in another thread as well

[RBbugBITme]

Anyone have experience with an e85 car? There aren't too many e85 stations in the Pittsburgh area but one is right where my office will be. I've been thinking about going this route with the turbo busa but to make it myself is not economical. I think its something like 50lbs of corn for 1 or 2 gallons in 8 hours.

[TSJ]

Anyone have experience with an e85 car? There aren't too many e85 stations in the Pittsburgh area but one is right where my office will be. I've been thinking about going this route with the turbo busa but to make it myself is not economical. I think its something like 50lbs of corn for 1 or 2 gallons in 8 hours.

We've been using it on our Sae cars for the last 2 or three years. Unfortunately we are in hybrid this year and the benefits between a 250cc NA single cylinder and the same engine on E85 is only only a couple more horses. And we are stuck driving down to houston to get any.

However on something like a turbo engine i think the added octane would be a nice safety measure and probably show an increase in power on something that large.

[RBbugBITme]

I guess I'm more concerned about whether or not people actually save money since the gas mileage goes down but so does cost.
Are my assumptions about making my own ethanol right and its not worth it? Has anyone tried it?
I'm thinking with a 14-16 gal tank and somewhere around 20-25mpg I won't get to frustrated and I'll be able to make it across PA without any problems. There are a crap load along the turnpike. I guess I could always have a seperate map ready for regular gas depending on what I tune with.

[Umai Kakudo]

Fusion Race Cars brought their CSR car that looks like a mini Grand Am bodied car that is enclosed cockpit with room for 2 drivers of any size to the NWR SCCA Convention back in January. I got to look at it closely and it was a really simple and serviceable (same upright bases at all 4 corners - lots of room to work on everything) design.

http://www.fusionracecars.com/

http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/media/front-air.jpg

I spoke at length with it's designer Titus and his main goals were a strong, reliable, and serviceable chassis that was well balanced and safe. He designed it in Solidworks and then contracted out all the tube cuts/bends and machining so he just needed to weld up and assemble all the components.

They wanted ~$50K (or more depending on spec for electrical and other bits) for their Kawi ZR14 powered one and their CSR car is K20 powered on the same chassis.

This would be a workable design for a road worthy car that meets your goals.

They are based out of the Vancouver BC area.

Here is a video of them at Pacific raceways in the Z14 powered test car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2rQOPeWbgA

[Def]

I ran E85 in my car for a while. It's definitely worth some power in a turbo motor, but your gas mileage goes down by almost the same amount of extra injector pulsewidth. Cost is roughly equivalent to using regular gas, at least around here that's how they price it. So vs. 93 you're going to save maybe a few bucks a tank max.

I only had to drive 5 miles to fill up with E85 and thought it was a PITA so I switched back to 93. It's pretty damn fast at high boost though. I maxxed out my 740cc injectors at ~18 psi on my SR20DET, so make sure you get enough injector.

It definitely makes the exhaust smell better though.

[a_ahmed]

WOW i never saw that kit car, theyre outta bc huh? Looks AWESOME! But Im guessing these would be hard to make street legal unlike locosts etc... haha...

[RBbugBITme]

Thanks for the link Umai, thats the general look I think I'd go for, though slightly larger with a rear cover probably sloping back more toward the diff for head room. I have to look into the elite racing transmissions they sell. I might be able to do without the chain drive with their motorbike diff box. A lot of my design work component wise is already done though. I just have to verify/modify for the increased loads of the larger aero car. Then from there is just chassis design which I wrote an Ansys program for during my senior design this year, the suspension design, and the body. Here are my future uprights. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/iwantawd/FSAE%20at%20VIR%2008/rearupright.jpg

Something I am really going to have to look into is what types of cars are running 13" wheels and what tire loads they see. If my increased weight over a CSR or F1000 isn't too much then I'll have access to all the tire data which would be really nice for those track days.

I took a closer look at the e85 stations around where I'll be the most and it won't be a big hassle. I'll probably be tuning with an AEM or Haltech anyways which would make switching fuel types easy if I have the right hardware for it.

[Umai Kakudo]

The Fusion car has TONs of headroom with a good 2" of clearance for 6' drivers. The bottom of the seat is like 80mm above the ground and the top of the room comes up to mid chest height. The cockpit has a lot of room for two large sized adults with lots of safety room in the footbox.

http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/ready-to-go_11.jpg
http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/edmn_3.jpg
http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/stratotech_2.jpg
http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/BBtest_4.jpg
http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/BBtest_11.jpg
http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/BBtest_10.jpg
http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/BBtest_6.jpg


See this link for more naked (sans bodywork) test pics

http://www.fusionracecars.com/contents/en-ca/d40.html

I just found their build blog that has some more detail. http://fusionracecars.blogspot.com/

http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/dec10/002-front-upright-finished.jpg
http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/dec10/002-eng-quaife.jpg
http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/dec10/002-splitter-roof.jpg

Check the blog for pictures of their unique laser cut jigs to assemble the chassis.


http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/002-main-roll-hoop-1_09_09.jpg
http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/001-cockpit-assy-3_08_25.jpg

Another thing they did to make it safer is use high density structural foam blocks for the front and door sidepods for crash attenuators. It had an impressive amount of crash protection for a CSR car.

Here are the side impact bars without the foam reinforcements.
http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/001-cockpit-assy-5_08_25.jpg


This has more detail shots of the engine and Quaife diff unit. http://fusionracecars.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html

http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/assembly/laying-out-eng-quaife.jpg
http://www.fusionracing.com/img/blog/assembly/laying-out-eng-quaife_3.jpg

For the ZR14 engine they were using the stock transmission and clutch with the Quaife diff/reversing box.

They said the factory transmission held up to a full season's of testing abuse but they eventually upgraded the clutch to be on the safe side (not because they had issues with the stock one).

[RBbugBITme]

I'm planning at this point to have a McLaren style 3-seater though so I'd need more room behind me.

[Umai Kakudo]

I'd like to build a GTM someday

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html

The GTM recently finished the 25 hours of Thunderhill.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/showevent/25hrs/08text.html
http://www.kitcarconnection.com/factory-five-gtm-based-prototype-race-car-debuts-recent-thunderhill-endurance-race.html

I find it funny that the roadsters were using MB 'Attack' Wheels (at least I know the one's I use will work for Thunderhill!).

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/showevent/25hrs/images/DSC_1402.jpg


The GTM is a good kit but I'd much rather add lightness and go the CSR route. A motorcycle engine, 13" slicks, and less wear on the brakes will give a much lower running cost for a track car. Plus, the 17,000 RPM's and sequential transmission boxes are already checked!

It would be hard to beat this driving experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE

[RBbugBITme]

Can't say I'm a fan of the single shear uprights on the Fusion!

[Lordrandall]

The GTM is a good kit but I'd much rather add lightness and go the CSR route. A motorcycle engine, 13" slicks, and less wear on the brakes will give a much lower running cost for a track car. Plus, the 17,000 RPM's and sequential transmission boxes are already checked!

It would be hard to beat this driving experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE

It is RPM, not RPM's. :p

I won't kid myself into thinking I'll ever spend a ton of time at the track until my kids are out of the house, or old enough to go and race with me. I just thought it would be a fun build. :)

[RBbugBITme]

Its a great road and track car. I'd rather have the versatility too over a CSR/DSR and drive the **** out of it.

[RBbugBITme]

Felt like screwing around instead of doing hw. Don't ask me how I'm going to incorporate doors. This big box is representative of a 22gal ATL bladder. Just threw out a random 109"/66" wheelbase/track and 4" ride height for now. I have lots and lots of research to do and 38 days till graduation!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/iwantawd/McG_01/mcg_01-iso.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/iwantawd/McG_01/mcg_01-rear.jpg

[Umai Kakudo]

Re Single Shear uprights. It seems that a lot of the sports and formula cars do this. Doesn't make it right!

Here are two more resources:

http://sports.racer.net/index1.html - Tons of sports racer info current and vintage with a good catalog of all the constructors and pictures of each design.

http://dpcars.net - Based in Portland Oregon this freelance engineer has designed his own line of lightweight AWD track toys with the top of the line one using the 500 HP Hartley V8 (http://www.h1v8.com). This site has a detailed design log chocked full of innovated construction techniques and honest evaluation of designs that failed.

The DP1
http://dpcars.net/dp1v8/dp1008.jpg

http://dpcars.net/dp1v8/dp1025.jpg

The smaller, less expensive DP4

http://dpcars.net/dplite/dp4078.jpg

He has some other designs in the works as kit cars for Atom fighter track toys.

Single Seat motorcycle engined DP3

http://www.palatov.com/images/dp3a.jpg

Two seater with LS crate engine DP2

http://www.palatov.com/images/dp2b.jpg

[Lordrandall]

DP cars has really expanded since I started following that site. Impressive.

[RBbugBITme]

http://www.pdv-motorsports.com/McG_01.htm for anyone interested. I'm not going to keep posting this stuff on here.

[Longfellow]

I've been researching a lot on building a Locost or Atomish build. The hard part is just deciding on donor parts, and what you want to do with it. I'm still on the fence and haven't made a decision.

Mine will most likely be SR powered whether it's a FWD or RWD donor.

I've been wanting to do something similar for the last 2-3 years. I even made a model out of dowel sticks. I've been meaning do download Solid Works so I can finally get around to making a decent scale model. Guess I'll do that this weekend.

I cant decided between a caterham design or an ariel one. I'd really like to do both eventually.

[floodo1]

Can't say I'm a fan of the single shear uprights on the Fusion!

looks very fragile