AMR Shock Dyno

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Doesn't say much to me, just the limits of the adjuster. Assuming that isn't doctored, I'm willing to bet the first couple clicks (they're 8-way adjustable, right? I don't remember) barely change the damping at all and the last couple clicks are huge insane changes. It also seems fishy that there is ZERO change in rebound at lower shaft speeds, and then it ramps up. For the sake of comparison, I found this dyno of an 8611 from the ZZYZX website (sorry 56k people): http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/pics/coilovers/shock-dyno-1200.jpg

[veilside180sx]

It has almost no low speed control, not to mention the rest of it.

[veilside180sx]

Copy and paste of my post on g20.net...which they'll probably delete soon enough...lol (copied from what PJ was trying to post) The reality is, there was some issues with the first production set that was made. It was clearly a installation issue. So another set had to be made. IT DID NOT HAVE TO BE MADE!! But me being me, I wanted everyone on the same page so I agreed to make another set. Well that set went to someone that actually knew what they were doing, and had not only the means, but the money to test the product to its fullest. Guess who that was?? Adam Koback, the STS class road racer in the saturn forums who dominated in about 3 regions this year with our coilovers. www.team-crm.com The same Adam Koback (autocrosser, btw) who admitted he couldn't afford to race at any out-of-region competition, or even Divisionals which was close by? Adam is a cool guy, but he by no means has the "money to test the product to its fullest". Regardless, that's still far beyond the point. Take a good look at his results. Come on 2-3 second margin average when he wins, and he won by almost a full 3 seconds on his first outting with our coilovers. You want to talk about confidence booster, that is one right there, not for me, but for the members of the groupbuy. I am confident enough haha. Do you have a link to said results? Adam hasn't made it to a single National level event in the past year or so. There's some events where decent STS class drivers are... such as ones with him 2 - 3 seconds behind STS class driver Chris Shenefield (a driver that Adam can admit he's not on par with). Adam wins his class because Chris runs in the indexed "Pro" class. Now, I'm not saying Adam is a bad driver, but he's nowhere near the top, currently. Even so, it's not very nice to spread lies about somebody, ripping their name apart to peddle off some goods. The reality is, there was some issues with the first production set that was made. It was clearly a installation issue. So another set had to be made. IT DID NOT HAVE TO BE MADE!! But me being me, I wanted everyone on the same page so I agreed to make another set. Well that set went to someone that actually knew what they were doing, and had not only the means, but the money to test the product to its fullest. Guess who that was?? Adam Koback, the STS class road racer in the saturn forums who dominated in about 3 regions this year with our coilovers. www.team-crm.com The same Adam Koback (autocrosser, btw) who admitted he couldn't afford to race at any out-of-region competition, or even Divisionals which was close by? Adam is a cool guy, but he by no means has the "money to test the product to its fullest". Regardless, that's still far beyond the point. Oddly enough, the closest thing to a "fast" STS Saturn ran on custom made Carrera shocks, with most of the tuning done by Small Fortune Racing, IIRC. Other than that, I don't think ANY National level STS trophy has been won by anything other than Koni or Bilstein. http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/259075.aspx Quote from above thread... "Adam, it looks like you were a couple of seconds behind Chris Shenefield in his STS 1989 Civic. Did the Pro index class run in different conditions?" Here are the outcomes of some of the other races. I don't see Adam winning in these races. http://www.scca-susq.com/results/2007/07-10-28-axresults.html http://www.nepa-scca.com/solo2results2007/solo2results_100707.htm http://www.nepa-scca.com/solo2results2007/solo2results_091607.htm

[veilside180sx]

It amazes me that people get suckered in by crap like this...

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It amazes me that people get suckered in by crap like this... True. People want to believe that they can get a complete competiton-grade coilover kit for $800 or $1000 that will be of equal or better quality to Koni/Bilstein/KW/whatever, so they give in to the hype. An "inverted-monotube, length-adjustable, 8-way coilover kit" sounds better than a "twin-tube insert" on paper, so people assume that it MUST be better. The JDM crap that floats around is much the same, only they're hyped-up more by their huge price tags. Since they are so expensive, they MUST be the best, right? :/

[vw_nissan]

I love this forum.

[a_ahmed]

^me too lol It's like every day there's something new to learn or to see from people who've autocrossed/raced/built cool cars :) It's so awesome :)

[veilside180sx]

I do believe we have our very own Andy from AMR fronting as "gofastnissan" on our forum.=)

[AceInHole]

It just irks me that people actually try to get away with pimping no-name autocrossers as superstars. I've got nothing against Adam, but AMR makes him out to be something he's not, which makes me want to dislike him, which isn't cool. Run on sentences for "teh" win. Anyways, I talked to a suspension guru about it. The whole door-to-door salesman attitude pissed me off enough to actually bring it up. Here was the reply. Adam hasn't done any national level stuff that I know of. His region is notoriously soft too. To the best of my knowledge, no national level STS trophy has been won by a damper other then Koni and occasionally Kevin McCormick's Bilsteins. Adam has won some regional stuff against lack luster competition. It may in fact be true that he went faster when he put these coil-overs on the car, but he 1) didn't have koni's on his car before (koni doesn't have a fitment for a saturn) and 2) nobody has really developed the car. When Cris Thomas was running his Saturn in STS I could see some big time improvements on his car through simply more development. And that car was on Carrera's and had some development help from Bill Gendron. Of course, the driver is such a huge part of the equation in Solo that trying to attribute improvements to shocks alone is pointless. At any rate, this guy tosses out verbage and talks big, but hasn't really backed himself up with anything. Koni releases white papers on their adjuster design, available damper curves, and all sorts of other information. This guy's attitude just doesn't instill any confidence in me that he has something worthwhile. ESPECIALLY at $1550 a set. You aren't buying quality at that price. Likely just rebadged Korean crap. And with a single adjuster that changes compression AND rebound, you can be 99.9% positive he's using a needle/seat adjuster, which he denies. I want dyno sheets. Will he email a potential customer any? I'm betting that the guy doesn't even have a shock dyno. If he did, maybe he could spell Roehrig correctly. But then, he can't spell "whether" correctly, and many other words. :shrug: Ask him if he can tell you how he can adjust both compression and rebound with a single knob without using a needle/seat in the hi speed bleed channel. Or if he uses spring preload on the shim stack to alter the damper curve. Or how nitrogen pressure affects his damper curve. Wording it so he doesn't get defensive will be tough, but if successful it should reveal if he knows anything about dampers at all. His comments on Koni are only applicable if he's referring to the mac strut koni yellow insert. Of course, that particular unit comes with such a huge adjustment range that you can adapt it to most anything you're trying to work with.