What's everyone running for engine management?

[AceInHole]

I have a Greddy Emanage Ultimate. It works pretty well. I'd like to get something with more direct control and more self-adjusting functions (knock reference, etc).

[McCoy]

Using a JWT ecu from a B13 Sentra programmed for 9.5:1 CR, 50lb MSD injectors, and a Z32 MAF. I can get away with this since I'm using the Distributor setup from the DE -vs- the COP of the DET's. I've been using this same ECU for the past 3 years, 2 years on my sentra with good success... 254whp at 10psi with a GTiR T28 and S3 cams. Benefits of using the B13 ecu is that I now have a fan controller, since the B13's came with electric fans. I also have a Calum ECU for backup or whenever I get around to doing a few dyno runs to see the difference between the two.

[turtl631]

Oh, fan controller, that's neat. I'll be running a ECU with a daughterboard that Def will tune for me. Worked for my KA, should be even better on the SR. For fan control I have a Saga water temp gauge with a really flexible built-in controller- I love it.

[steve shadows]

Haltech E8 Controls GT3076R RWD SR20DET Redtop. Plug and Play with Boost Control and currently using correction maps and launch control. Want to set up anti-lag feature soon.

[snickers]

JWT ecu's are great, simple and plug and play. My other choice is Apex Power FC. easy to use and works perfect. and its not to expensive.

[e1_griego]

I've been rom tuning my single cam ka. Between a friend and I we have 2 pocket romulators, a willems burner and a uv eraser, and I have consult wired into my stanza ecu so we can use maptrace. Seems to work pretty well :)

Alex

[Your Mom]

I run a AEM EMS Honda box 1020 box thats modded for hall effect. This car had this ems in it before the 240 boxes came out. I've had my issues with aem and my own retarded mistakes. I like the aem, i've gotten pretty good with the software. i better like it, i have a another on my wifes car (s14).

my car, 2871r .86, 740cc nismo, gm boost solenoid, gm 3 bar map, gm ait, aem wideband.

wifes, t3t04, 480cc dechwerks (total garbage), aem map, aem boost, gm ait, aem wideband, aem serial gauge.

[2Fass240us]

Stock ECU :cool:

[bill@dentsport]

I use Autronic SM2 1.93 chip, w/ MSD DIS4 and MSD DIS Racing Coils. The Autronic is awesome and has never given me one problem. After building the whole car and wiring harness, the car literally started on three revoltions after priming. The support is excellent and you run the factory CAS. A true professional system for a good price. There is decent built in engine data logging and you can add inputs for Turbo Speed and 4 EGTs. I like AEM as well but we have had absolutely nothing but good luck with the 10+ autronic SM2/SM4s we have installed. If anyone is wanting to head this route with management, I can answer any wiring/mechanical questions. We buy Autronic through Franz Diebold in DC who is an excellent tuner as well if you are down in that area. Our tuner, Matt Koestner mapped my SR and he would probably answer Autronic calibration questions if there were any.
This forum is awesome, who started this?

[veilside180sx]

I use Autronic SM2 1.93 chip, w/ MSD DIS4 and MSD DIS Racing Coils. The Autronic is awesome and has never given me one problem. After building the whole car and wiring harness, the car literally started on three revoltions after priming. The support is excellent and you run the factory CAS. A true professional system for a good price. There is decent built in engine data logging and you can add inputs for Turbo Speed and 4 EGTs. I like AEM as well but we have had absolutely nothing but good luck with the 10+ autronic SM2/SM4s we have installed. If anyone is wanting to head this route with management, I can answer any wiring/mechanical questions. We buy Autronic through Franz Diebold in DC who is an excellent tuner as well if you are down in that area. Our tuner, Matt Koestner mapped my SR and he would probably answer Autronic calibration questions if there were any.
This forum is awesome, who started this?

Guilty as charged. :D

[raen419]

I'm using the SAFC-2 on the KA.
Currently making 260rwhp at 7psi. I'm looking into some sort of Boost timing control though too (MSD maybe?). I'll freely admit that I'm a noob when it comes to turbo engines, but since buying the S13, I'm looking to make the engine last as long as possible while boosted.

[AceInHole]

I'm using the SAFC-2 on the KA.
Currently making 260rwhp at 7psi. I'm looking into some sort of Boost timing control though too (MSD maybe?). I'll freely admit that I'm a noob when it comes to turbo engines, but since buying the S13, I'm looking to make the engine last as long as possible while boosted.

Shoot me a PM if you want an MSD BTM. I've also got an EManage Ultimate for sale that I'll be putting up soon (even better control over timing and fuel). Either will support up to around 14psi on the KA, but will be a PITA for anything more. My logic behind that statement is that you can only fool the ECU so much before exceeding the factory load map (and going to 100% DC on the injectors). The only way around it would be to interpolate your own MAF conversion (going to a bigger MAF or MAP sensor, of course), while not screwing the open loop portion of the map into trimming everything (effectively ruining your settings). After that, you still have to re-adjust the upper portion of the map using the injector correction.

Like I said... PITA.

[raen419]

Agreed.
The KA has SR 370s on it right now, and they're maxed out around redline. 440s would do better, but I'm not running lean right now so its not a top priority since I usually don't top 5k for that reason. I'm only looking to make 300 at the rear wheels, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

I am looking into the EManage Ultimate sometime soon though. Still need to take care of numerous other little things first though. It'd be nice to switch to a MAP sensor too (GM 4 bar?) and ditch the Z32 MAF.

I'll PM you about the BTM shortly.

[turtl631]

ROM tune is a solid option also, if you don't feel the need to tinker yourself.

[raen419]

I'm thinking about going that route. Haven't really looked into pricing or options, but I would really like to run a MAP sensor at some point and I don't know if a ROM tune will work with one.

[AceInHole]

AFAIK the ECU calculates fuel almost directly by MAF voltage. Unless you can change that to a voltage per RPM scale, I don't think a hacked ECU will be able to run off of a MAP sensor.

[raen419]

Yeah, you're correct about that.
Hm....guess I might stick w/ a MAF. The Z32 one should do fine.
Now I just need to hunt down that vacuum leak and hopefully the fuel decel cut on the SAFC2 will kill the backfiring and bogging down/dying.

[Epstein]

You'll never be able to run a ROM tune and a MAP sensor unless you run a VPC or MAFT-Pro piggybacked. That's entirely more trouble that it's worth, though. Personally, I'd rather just weld a 1.25" fitting to my intake pipe and recirculate. 1.25" pipe plus some welding and a tube was less than 100 bucks.

Honestly, I've never had any problems running a MAF and open bov, and that's on 4-5 different setups. Most of the issues that I've seen on customer cars are because people run too short/straight of an intake pipe. Lift throttle surge blowing air backwards across the mafs is usually the culprit. I've logged it myself. Engine at 0rpms (stalled) showing 2V on the maf sensor when you only use 1.2V to idle at 1000rpms. That's hilarious.

[AceInHole]

In theory you could do it if you had a %V scale per RPM range table for fuel. It wouldn't be very accurate, though.

[Epstein]

In theory you could just go into the program code, find the TP calculation, remove the RPM term, and add a scaler. Then just patch the X axis lookup to use the MAP voltage. I've contemplated working on it. I always come back to "why". Who the hell needs a MAP so bad that they can't just go buy a Haltech?

[e1_griego]

Gabe (deviousKA) has recently released code for the ka24e ecu that allows you to modify your ecu to work with a MAP sensor. Haven't tried it myself (b/c, I don't find it entirely necessary), but just sayin' :). Plus, who actually wants/uses a single cam ;).

Alex

[raen419]

LSx guys. :D

[OHH]

I am running the S-AFC right now on my SR. I need a ROM tune bad. Whose out there these days besides Enthalpy and JWT? I thought Hybrid dynamics was doing them but their site has been down for awhile so I take it they are no longer.

How hard is the Power FC to tune ?

[Epstein]

Hybrid Dynamics also changed ownership. I think Jason(?) is now with Mazworx for their drag effort.

It sounds like you're not too keen on RS Enthalpy or JWT stuff. Any particular reason? You can PM me on the side or just post up questions or concerns about RSE stuff.

The Power FC, it depends on which unit you get. The mass-flow version is going to be easier to dial in fueling versus the speed density setup. Tuning the timing shouldn't be any different than any other ROM tuned ECU or standalone. If you know what you're doing you can knock out a speed density setup in about 3 hrs on the dyno plus some time doing street driveability. And get a datalogit or whatever the Apexi version is. I hear it take a while to get things punched in with only a commander. Some people call the PowerFC the Powerless FC because it's just about the least powerful standalone. It's more like a ROM tune with bigger maps and a commander than a real standalone like a Haltech or AEM.

[OHH]

To be honest I have no real good reason to dislike either. I am sure you have heard the talk JWT is too reserved with their tunes and RSE is on the agressive side. Other than that the cost (I know i know...weigh the cost of a good tune against the cost of a rebuilt motor which is less :o ). None of those are real good reasons though to dislike either. If my memory serves me right i am sure you will recommend RSE as didnt you work with/for him at one time or another?


Chances are i will get the RSE tune, I just wanted to see what else is out there. My goals arent too lofty so the ROM tune is gonna be my best bet

[Epstein]

Yeah, I do engineering, research, and the actual hardware modding for RS Enthalpy. That's just my afterhours gig, though. All things equal, I'll of course recommend my own company, but I'm actually pretty unbiased... to a fault. I'm a ****ty salesman because I give engineering/logic-based answers. Good thing sales isn't my job. I've got no problem recommending one of the many standalones or other tuners if the situation calls for it. Did I mention that RSE tunes Haltech, PFC, AEM, Hondata, etc, etc, etc?

We get the reputation for being aggressive mostly from the forums. One person hears how much timing we run here or what we fuel to there, doesn't agree with our theory of tuning, and then bam you're labeled. Behold the power and glory of the internets. Same is probably true for JWT, I can only assume. The fact is, if we tuned to the ragged edge for every car, most of them wouldn't last more than a few months. If that were the case, we would have never sold 10 ECUs. I'm pretty sure we're over 900 now.

As far as what else is out there in the low-budget area there's megasquirt, which I'm mega not impressed with. A Haltech E8 (or cheaper E6x if you're KA) doesn't cost much more than a PFC w/datalogit and is much more powerful. But, you have to get someone to tune it, and there's no knock sensor input. I've yet to find someone that likes their Greddy Emangle, er, Emanage.

And all future and current customers are welcome to PM me here or on FA.

[OHH]

Yeah, I do engineering, research, and the actual hardware modding for RS Enthalpy. That's just my afterhours gig, though. All things equal, I'll of course recommend my own company, but I'm actually pretty unbiased... to a fault. I'm a ****ty salesman because I give engineering/logic-based answers. Good thing sales isn't my job. I've got no problem recommending one of the many standalones or other tuners if the situation calls for it. Did I mention that RSE tunes Haltech, PFC, AEM, Hondata, etc, etc, etc?

We get the reputation for being aggressive mostly from the forums. One person hears how much timing we run here or what we fuel to there, doesn't agree with our theory of tuning, and then bam you're labeled. Behold the power and glory of the internets. Same is probably true for JWT, I can only assume. The fact is, if we tuned to the ragged edge for every car, most of them wouldn't last more than a few months. If that were the case, we would have never sold 10 ECUs. I'm pretty sure we're over 900 now.

As far as what else is out there in the low-budget area there's megasquirt, which I'm mega not impressed with. A Haltech E8 (or cheaper E6x if you're KA) doesn't cost much more than a PFC w/datalogit and is much more powerful. But, you have to get someone to tune it, and there's no knock sensor input. I've yet to find someone that likes their Greddy Emangle, er, Emanage.

And all future and current customers are welcome to PM me here or on FA.

Real soon I will be needing to fork out the cash. I will indeed take you up on your offer

[BigOdom1]

i can +rep rse hell look at my cardomain for the dyno thats with very little change on an safc with a t28

[MSMvsS14]

Sporting the Megasquirt 2 on my S14 here. It has it's pros and cons. One of the biggest pluses for me is that it is a great learning tool. A bit more labor intensive and less PnP, but I've learned a great deal more from setting up, wiring, tuning, making mistakes and fixing them, etc... than I would have if I simply plugged in an AEM and started tuning.

The car starts great and is reliable enough on 850cc injectors, but I've got work to do on the accel/decel transitions and overall smoothness. A little jerky at times.

I think I've got the most overbuilt mid-13 second car on the planet, thru no fault of the MS. The MS may have it's limits, but for the average DIY tuner, the biggest limitation will be the operator.

-Steve

[Jason M]

Megasquirt for me aswell. 740cc inj, 4g63 CAS, and Toyota wasted spark coils with built in ignitors providing spark for my freshly built KA24DE-T. Just running 10psi right now, but the motor should handle a bit more then that...;)

Megasquirt has been an excellent learning expereince for me.

[Cory]

RSE "Enthalpy" ROM tune with an SAFC on top.

[Def]

Yeah, I do engineering, research, and the actual hardware modding for RS Enthalpy. That's just my afterhours gig, though. All things equal, I'll of course recommend my own company, but I'm actually pretty unbiased... to a fault. I'm a ****ty salesman because I give engineering/logic-based answers. Good thing sales isn't my job. I've got no problem recommending one of the many standalones or other tuners if the situation calls for it. Did I mention that RSE tunes Haltech, PFC, AEM, Hondata, etc, etc, etc?

We get the reputation for being aggressive mostly from the forums. One person hears how much timing we run here or what we fuel to there, doesn't agree with our theory of tuning, and then bam you're labeled. Behold the power and glory of the internets. Same is probably true for JWT, I can only assume. The fact is, if we tuned to the ragged edge for every car, most of them wouldn't last more than a few months. If that were the case, we would have never sold 10 ECUs. I'm pretty sure we're over 900 now.

As far as what else is out there in the low-budget area there's megasquirt, which I'm mega not impressed with. A Haltech E8 (or cheaper E6x if you're KA) doesn't cost much more than a PFC w/datalogit and is much more powerful. But, you have to get someone to tune it, and there's no knock sensor input. I've yet to find someone that likes their Greddy Emangle, er, Emanage.

And all future and current customers are welcome to PM me here or on FA.

Yea, I'm not too impressed with Megasquirt. I only used MS1 a little bit though. The software UI was pretty horrid about 2 years ago and things were a bit vague.

No idea how you have the patience to give 900 people tech support on tunes. I found a good 1/2-2/3 of the people I tuned an ECU for couldn't wire up a Z32 MAF correctly even after I sent them a wiring diagram... yikes.

[undesiredshoe]

Im running a chipped nissan stanza ecu on my 90 240sx. Currently running the EC3 code which has a built in launch control, fan control output and a few others...which is bad ass. Im using a moates ostrich V2 which allows me to tune on the fly without having to burn chips.

Im testing this program/code called Zeitune and it allows me to convert to a map sensor, gives me 32x16 maps, a couple user definable outputs, and might allow for use of a coil on plug setup. Total cost, $250.

[Epstein]

Yea, I'm not too impressed with Megasquirt. I only used MS1 a little bit though. The software UI was pretty horrid about 2 years ago and things were a bit vague.

No idea how you have the patience to give 900 people tech support on tunes. I found a good 1/2-2/3 of the people I tuned an ECU for couldn't wire up a Z32 MAF correctly even after I sent them a wiring diagram... yikes.

Just wait for MS3 that's coming soon!! It'll now have as much processing power as the Lego Mindstorms NXT controller! wooooo.

The tech support isn't that hard to do. Most things are documented out there and we just need to point them in the right direction. And yeah, mafs wiring is the #1 tech support issue behind zeroing out your SAFC.

Im running a chipped nissan stanza ecu on my 90 240sx. Currently running the EC3 code which has a built in launch control, fan control output and a few others...which is bad ass. Im using a moates ostrich V2 which allows me to tune on the fly without having to burn chips.

Im testing this program/code called Zeitune and it allows me to convert to a map sensor, gives me 32x16 maps, a couple user definable outputs, and might allow for use of a coil on plug setup. Total cost, $250.

That even-older-than-OBDI stuff is really neat, especially with what people have done with it now. There will always be a place for cheap tuning platforms, especially based on OEM hardware. You still have to know how to tune, though.

[Tower240sx]

WOW, Im surprised I seem to be the only one here with a NIStune ECU, It's IMHO the best solution as it uses stock ECU and harness w/a daughter board installed that allows maptrace and full programability through the CONSULT port.

I'm currently running gt2871 (.64?? A/R) z-32 MAF and stock injectors with too much Fuel pressure (~75PSI).

GM 3-bar map for Datalog
OLD AS **** Profec-b
Innovate LM-1 for o2 simulation and wideband inout to NIStune for tuning.

Please PM/ E-mail for more Info...or Post Below

[AdamR]

WOW, Im surprised I seem to be the only one here with a NIStune ECU, It's IMHO the best solution as it uses stock ECU and harness w/a daughter board installed that allows maptrace and full programability through the CONSULT port.

I'm currently running gt2871 (.64?? A/R) z-32 MAF and stock injectors with too much Fuel pressure (~75PSI).

GM 3-bar map for Datalog
OLD AS **** Profec-b
Innovate LM-1 for o2 simulation and wideband inout to NIStune for tuning.

Please PM/ E-mail for more Info...or Post Below

I really like Nistune. The software is nice. However, I feel like it is oriented to be more user friendly. You can't use an xdf with it, and you can't modify the address files.
I use a CalumRT.

[ramm]

I use NIStune software on my KA-T Racemobile

[pash]

just a fuching SAFC

[Matt93SE]

stock base model with the oh so handy 120mph speed limiter... :rolleyes:

[Ruff Ryder 6]

Running on a Megasquirt 2 with the MS2Extra code

[Colorado S14]

Enthalpy ECU on KA-T. Thinking of going Haltech PS1000 (unless I find an E6X for super cheap, is the PS1000 much better anyway?) with a custom harness. There is pretty good access to E85 here and I would just have Enthalpy do an E85 tune, but I do want to go MAP and would like to have a laptop sitting under the passenger seat incase I had to throw 91 in it so I could switch maps and still have it run.

[DuckyD]

We are an RS-Enthalpy dealer and I still haven't got a tune yet :( Then again, I can't justify wasting a tune on stock fuel and stock turbo.

[Def]

There's a new Haltech Sprint500 or something like that. Less than $1k - and has great specs for the price.

I'd definitely go for that over a ROM tune IMO, and I say this being a huge fan of ROM tuning for our cars.

[Your Mom]

sounds good for the money but no knock control. but then again it doesn't look like haltech believes in knock control.

[Your Mom]

deals
http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/284892-haltech-e6k-ems-setup-sr20det.html

[CoupedUp]

I have an Electromotive TecGT and I love it.

[subaruwrx420]

I run an S13 Enthalpy ECU in my 1995 S14 KA-t with the conversion harness. Does anyone know what would happen if I got it emissions tested? What would it read out of the consult port? I understand that the consult port is actually disabled when running such a set up.

In the future, I would like to go with the user-tunable set up. Perhaps a CalumRT or NisTune.

[Dark horse]

1995 will be OBD1 so you should only get the sniffer test. I think they are equipped to be OBD2 because '95 was a transition period.

[CodyAce]

I run an S13 Enthalpy ECU in my 1995 S14 KA-t with the conversion harness. Does anyone know what would happen if I got it emissions tested? What would it read out of the consult port? I understand that the consult port is actually disabled when running such a set up.

In the future, I would like to go with the user-tunable set up. Perhaps a CalumRT or NisTune.

Consult ports aren't disabled, it's that they are 98% of the time not wired up. You can easily add one yourself, simply splicing into the ECU wires. I added a second plug to mine in the passenger footwell (near the ecu behind that plastic cover) for easier access and less wires all over cabin when logging.


I run a Jim Wolf ECU. love it. Water injection and launch control with it as well. Would I love a programable setup? Sure...but then I'd be tinkering with the damn thing to often and probably blow it up. With that said, I love the plug/play/boost/smile aspect of my ECU.

[phil240]

I run a Jim Wolf ECU. love it. Water injection and launch control with it as well. Would I love a programable setup? Sure...but then I'd be tinkering with the damn thing to often and probably blow it up. With that said, I love the plug/play/boost/smile aspect of my ECU.


Have you had any problems with the launch control and throwing rockers?and i am pondering putting my meth kit on are you happy with your kit (i have the snow stage 2).


But for engine management i used to run the haltech e11v2 but i sold it to my buddy,since i will be making my own harness and cutting down some of the wiring in the car chassis.After that though i will be getting the new haltech ps2000 as i have played around a little with both versions and the new platinum series has alot to offer and definitely better graffics but both are really good systems.

[CodyAce]

Have you had any problems with the launch control and throwing rockers?and i am pondering putting my meth kit on are you happy with your kit (i have the snow stage 2)

Well I should 'explain' my launch control. 3500 rpm, 5 psi of boost hehe. It was more or less a 'test' with Clark to see what worked best. At the drags, I'd rather have it at 5000/5500 making 15ish PSI lol.

The Water works great. Perfect for a track car. it's like a cold fall day all day with it on. Doesn't use much either, as it's only spraying after 4000 RPM, and at WOT. I have a Snow Stage 1, as I only really needed the pump, the tank, the nozzles. I mounted mine in the trunk, and they suggested a front solenoid to keep it from siphoning up front. Please no comments on the crappy aluminum welding... I had the wrong gas switched on lol.

http://www.codyace.com/albums/album424/meth_02.sized.jpg

http://www.codyace.com/albums/album424/meth_10.sized.jpg

Front solenoid:
http://www.codyace.com/albums/album424/meth_12.sized.jpg

[phil240]

thats good to hear about the meth kit (as i have it and i dont want to put it on the wifes evo).i am also interested in the octane boost from the meth so i dont have to run q16 all the time for the power i want.how is your kit controlled other than a pedal switch?

[Markku Kiviniemi]

AEM EMS ver1 model 1060U
AEM Twin-fire
AEM CDI Pencil coil
AEM 4-Channel K-Type Thermocouple Amplifier
+ sensors

We have run AEM now about 4 years, works really well. We think its cheap what kine of soft it have, other brand offering same but bigger money.

[Colorado S14]

Question for the masses, for a KA-T how does the Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 compare to the Sprint 500? I am looking for your standard MAP conversion, the ability to interface with a Racepak or AIM dash, and would love to convert the car from dis-ignition to coil on plug. Does anyone with more knowledge than I know if the PS1000 or PS500 can do all three. Someone mentioned that the Sprint 500 may not be suitable for an SR, why is that?

[Epstein]

Took a quick look at the specs of the 500 and 1000.

500 only does 16x16 mapping (not a big deal), missing interesting features like idle control and boost control, and has CAN but doesn't explicitly state AIM/racepak. It does do 4x ignition, 4x injection, though. So it could in theory run an SR or COP KA. This is a neat box since it's a reliable Haltech, but cut down to a bare bones ECU for people who don't need all the cool things.

The plat 1000 is the Cadillac of sequential 4cyl ECUs. Everything you'll ever want. I wish they had these 5 years ago when I bought an E8.

My 2cents: IMHO, Haltech has the best reputation for reading the Nissan optical sensor. The built-in MAP sensor is cool because GM 3-bars are close to $100 shipped these days. That's added value.

[Colorado S14]

That is what I am thinking, I have been looking into them more over night and it looks like the big differences are those you mentioned, closed loop boost control, on-board datalogging, and less outputs. I have found mention that the CAN on the unit will interface with IQ3 (Haltech even sells the IQ3 as an option), and according to JohnGriff's post in this thread (KA-T.org Thread (http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=44596&highlight=platinum+500)) he spoke with Haltech and there are more outputs than they list and it can indeed control the idle motor. If that is the case then this may be the best bang for the buck option out there!

[e1_griego]

I replied to this thread when I still had a sohc-t --- I'm running a power fc l-jetro (maf) setup now with my SR. Got it for *cheap* and I really like having the commander to see what's going on. I also split a datalogit with a friend so tuning is not a problem :)

[CodyAce]

thats good to hear about the meth kit (as i have it and i dont want to put it on the wifes evo).i am also interested in the octane boost from the meth so i dont have to run q16 all the time for the power i want.how is your kit controlled other than a pedal switch?

There is no pedal switch with the JWT control. It works exactly the same as their nitrous 'maps' that they have. It's controlled by 2 parameters, that must both be met to work
-WOT, and
-Anything past 4k

This works great as it needs both satisfied in order to work. I'd say after a long track day it will use roughly the entire Snow small tank, but I typically fill it up after lunch break. I also like snow kits due to everything being 'american' threaded, that is, inch hose, npt fittings, etc etc...unlike Aquamist (which makes great stuff, no doubt here) which uses BSP stuff, and metric crap (which sucks if you want to do custom stuff, or get replacement hose locally/cheap/free)

For me, the meth is a great 'safety' feature for track days. I don't run any additional boost or timing with it, as that wasn't my 'intention'...fo rme, it was cheaper than running race gas for track days. Plus the other nice thing, is that it's not being used 'any time the car is on'. With race gas, it's always being used...ideling, off throttle, waiting, etc etc. This sucks, as it's essentially waste. The meth injection (which I just use washer fluid btw) is nice as it isn't waste.

[phil240]

There is no pedal switch with the JWT control. It works exactly the same as their nitrous 'maps' that they have. It's controlled by 2 parameters, that must both be met to work
-WOT, and
-Anything past 4k.

Yea i shoulda knew that i wasn't thinking when i said it.But yea in reality its a good investment.My biggest problem is the tuning factor with a meth kit as far not getting the right air intake temperatures with it.

[CodyAce]

Yea i shoulda knew that i wasn't thinking when i said it.But yea in reality its a good investment.My biggest problem is the tuning factor with a meth kit as far not getting the right air intake temperatures with it.

Clark seemingly has a 'meth' tune for these cars, but I can't verify what differences versus the other tune.

I really need to work on a setup here shortly that can encorperate a map sensor into my setup (i wonder if a 2 bar would work?) that way I can use logworks and the conzult to log afr, boost, and the regular stuff.

[phil240]

I can't really comment on ecu tune too much as i havent really messed with them.I went straight from stock ecu+afc neo to standalone.If you are looking for a diiferent setup though possibly look into a company called vipec or nistune.The nice thing about vipec is there plug in board for the 13 and 14 ecu.People usaully complain about the drivability of an ems but it doesn't really bother me.If you do convert to a speed density setup remember that for the map sensor you choose should be the boost psi + 1 bar.

[CodyAce]

I was talking with Calum for a bit, but decided to keep things simple and leave them how they are. My car makes plenty of power and is reliable...the last thing my poor car needs is for me to get my 'beaters' on the keyboard playing with things haha. Lets just say I'm lazy, and the MAF does great for me ;) I say this now though lol

never heard of the 'vipec', will check it out. always good for other options :D

[phil240]

Yea I wish I could have gotten an ecu and z32 maf to play with but oh well. I always liked haltech then I got an awesome deal on one. Vipec pretty new setup only been out for like maybe 2 years and iirc its priced really well for what it is. And I hear you on the reliability of your setup.

[TSL]

I always recommend staying with a reprogrammed oem computer for most mild-tune situations. The closer the engine setup is to standard the more sense it makes to keep the oem computer because a lot of the hard work has been done by the factory.

If you want to go to a MAP based computer I recommend Microtech for the low budget and then Haltech for mid-high level price/performance. For those who can afford it the Autronic range is hard to beat and if you're baller then Motec is the shiz.

A lot of people in australia use Power-FC but between you and me they actually have less features than the standard oem computers.

[stewiefied]

just got my rs-enthalpy tune today and put it in. Guess you can put another check under the rs-e list.

[ericb382]

I'm using a bikirom. Got in in a group buy for $250 a few years back. It's a daughter board that connects to a laptop via usb. It has it's fair share of bugs and quirks (mostly programing issues), but if you get it working correctly it gets the job done. Has map trace and dataloging, however i've never actually used the datalogging.

It uses the same driver as my plx wideband so I can't run that softare simultaneously, but iirc nistune also uses the same drivers (maybe someone with NIStune can confirm this, ftdi drivers iirc).

I'm thinking about switching it out in the future, but I have other things higher up on my list of priorities...

[Def]

I always recommend staying with a reprogrammed oem computer for most mild-tune situations. The closer the engine setup is to standard the more sense it makes to keep the oem computer because a lot of the hard work has been done by the factory.

If you want to go to a MAP based computer I recommend Microtech for the low budget and then Haltech for mid-high level price/performance. For those who can afford it the Autronic range is hard to beat and if you're baller then Motec is the shiz.

A lot of people in australia use Power-FC but between you and me they actually have less features than the standard oem computers.

Microtech seems pretty expensive for what it is. I think the cheaper new Haltech Sprint(I think that's their name) ECUs are pretty good value for money.

It is hard to beat a tuned factory Nissan ECU for value though.

[stewiefied]

i've been running the rse tune for about a month now. It's doing pretty good. If you get in on one of the $300 group buys you can't go wrong.

My friend got a good deal on a used microtech for his 2nd gen rx7. so i'll see how that goes.

[cjernigan]

i've been running the rse tune for about a month now. It's doing pretty good. If you get in on one of the $300 group buys you can't go wrong.

My friend got a good deal on a used microtech for his 2nd gen rx7. so i'll see how that goes.

I need in on one of these group buys. How often do they happen? If you see one taking place holler at me if you remember please!

[stewiefied]

I just happened to load up ka-t.org 2 seconds after he posted the thread on the first one. :)
The second group buy took about a month for the spots to fill, so I don't know if he'll have another one. I'll let you know if I see another though.

[Sleepy_Steve]

I went with Bikirom on my S14... Bad call. New version of the board and software is even worse than the old one that everyone said was crap.

If I ever push towards PTE in NASA, I'll probably switch to a ROM tune since that's a free mod, and the daughter-board setup eats 3 points of my budget.

[Tower240sx]

Yeah...nistune people...how come no-one seems to know what it is

Everybody is always blah blah blah bikirom sucks...for the same price get nistune it works great, even interfaces with wideband to pull fuel based on your parameters to obtain the AFR you want...also datalogs anything you can plug into it including any 0-5v sensor with an 8 channel 0-5v to usb converter...

It's a daughter board that turns your ECU into a standalone ala hondata.

The guys release a new version of the software every 90 days or so constantly improving the interface and fixing bugs etc, I have it in 2 cars and have had it for 4 years anyway...makes me wonder why anyone uses bikirom

since nistune is a stock ECU you can drop any rom-tune that works for your setup directly into the ECU.

[Sleepy_Steve]

How hard is it to develop a rom tune for an stock ECU with nistune? IE; using Nistune to develop the file that you use to flash/chip a stock non-nistune ECU.

[Def]

I've thought of selling my ECU with Bikirom in it. At that point though, I might as well toss in a daughterboard and ROM tune since it's like $70-80 and I already have the burner. Mild PITA to change chips, but not horrible.

Lucas(badbiki) really dropped the ball on it. No idea why he won't really support the thing, other than it seems that people are still buying it regardless of the bad experiences. Mine is still running V1 software from back in '05 since I've had problems everytime I updated it.

[Def]

I should sell base maps for $20 or something... Nissan stock ECUs make base maps stupid easy to develop, and changes on a dyno would take like 5 seconds once you see the methodology.

[Hey DON]

i hate my aem, but its running my engine now. It took some time to get all the drivers repaired. and aem customer service sucks!! just my two cents! oh and i have a bikirom that works like never!

[Tower240sx]

How hard is it to develop a rom tune for an stock ECU with Nistune? IE; using Nistune to develop the file that you use to flash/chip a stock non-Nistune ECU.


Very quick, all the popular MAFs are pre-programmed into the software, and all the tables are clearly marked, there is also a tuning guide on their site to help you understand all the tables Nissan ECUs read from.

with a WBO2 sensor you can log any parameters you want alongside the a/f and very effectively tune on the street.

[Sleepy_Steve]

Awesome, glad to hear the bin's aren't locked down in the same way the bikirom files are... Also the new software is not backwards compatible with the old files for previous hardware and software versions.

Looks like I've figured out what I'll be getting later once I'm done with the bikirom.

[sil8y]

Wow. Im with Tower. Nistune flat out rocks. Easy, cheap, reliable, and great customer service! Get in the know!

Nistune V3
Q45 MAF
Innovate LC1

[Wheelman]

I'm running Meagesquirt-II with MSExtra code that can decode the stock KA24DE CAS wheel.

It's been a real learning experience getting it running but the entry costs are relatively low and I know more about how my system is put together this way than if I had bought a more PNP setup.

[modulation]

I love my nistune (hardware and software.)
I've been running it on my ka24de for 2.5 years now that I autox and use as my Daily-driver.
I've changed to a N60 maf, 380cc injectors and tuned it for no IACV as well as countless changes to the fuel map after reviewing logs from the nistune software that interpolate the wbo2 data from my lc1 with the nistune data.

Nistune seems to have all the flexibility of after-market ECU's (except for maybe MAP) yet since it keeps everything else unchanged it seem to be really reliable still too.

[tonto]

I know more about how my system is put together this way than if I had bought a more PNP setup.

If you are the same wheelman as on the extra forum then thats one way of putting it ;)

I was just about ready to dive into MS land on my sr using patricks wheel code. but i'm not sure what my options are now. I would like to go standalone and would really prefer to use the sr CAS.

any advice appreciated. muchas graz.

other wants:
map (so i can clean up my piping)
sequential fuel
egt monitor (extra points for x4)
boost control
cop obviously
datalogging w/o laptop

ref: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=30254&hilit=sr20&start=360

[CodyAce]

Foret if I posted or not, but I have a Jim Wolf Technology ECU, with Launch Control, as well as a Water Injection map. Works fantastic...literally plugged it in, and worked.

[Tower240sx]

I'd love to get into the custom coding side of things on these ECU's I guess i need better than basic understanding of software programming though...

Some guys have 2 stage rev limiters for launch control, guys have re programmed stock ka24de ecu's to drive SR coil packs, all kinds of cool stuff,

mmdb can code I should make him do it

[SM240]

best thing about my aem is the map tuning capability, I hate maf based systems now. Although had nistune been around when i started Id have prob gone that way.

[CodyAce]

best thing about my aem is the map tuning capability, I hate maf based systems now. Although had nistune been around when i started Id have prob gone that way.

why hate the maf ??

[Tower240sx]

why hate the maf ??

I don't get it either, so much less work with a MAF so much more direct.

I'd like to have a ECU that references the MAP to do boost dependent timing retard but you can achieve that with a MAF with some data-logging anyway.

I love MAF's

[SM240]

tuning a map based system is much simpler, any vac leaks or coupled lines pop off and I drive home. Less to deal with as far as piping. Minor things but I do love having a map system, not much to make a huge deal about it or a must have, just my preference. I will say with the now available tuning software like nistune and even calumsult, the aem hass got to be a harder sell than 2 years ago. However if I ever scrap the ka and run an sr, or vq I can still do it no problem with this setup for the most part.

Oh and the knock control has got to be the absolute best part of the system, any releveant detect in knock and it will retard timing. This has actually saved my ass before

[AceInHole]

tuning a map based system is much simpler, any vac leaks or coupled lines pop off and I drive home. Less to deal with as far as piping. Minor things but I do love having a map system, not much to make a huge deal about it or a must have, just my preference.

Best part about the MAP system has to be the ability to drive somewhat normally with a blown coupler/ pipe.

Other than that, I'd say MAF is easier to tune/ setup, and requires less or no change between different engine setups, as different cams/ compression ratios require a decent amount of retuning on a MAP system.

In terms of AEM vs reprogrammed ECUs, do they allow for other trims such as fuel vs EGT, fuel vs AIT, etc?

[Epstein]

Best part about MAP system is having a blown coupler, not knowing it, then overspeeding the compressor to death because the wastegate is shut trying to hit target boost.

Why does everyone default to that argument? What crapcan do you guys have standalones in that are blowing couplers all the time?

[Tower240sx]

Best part about MAP system is having a blown coupler, not knowing it, then overspeeding the compressor to death because the wastegate is shut trying to hit target boost.

Why does everyone default to that argument? What crapcan do you guys have standalones in that are blowing couplers all the time?

I almost fell out of my chair laughing

[ericb382]

I just replaced my bikirom with a d-jetro. One of my biggest reasons for going MAP was that I thought it would be better for changing elevation. I live at 7000 ft elevation but the closest tracks are about 1400 ft. My logic failed me on this one, I notice a bigger change with elevation on MAP based system than I did on MAF. I'm still playing with the tune and hoping that once I get the datalogit I will be able to tune it out for the most part.

[ericb382]

Best part about MAP system is having a blown coupler, not knowing it, then overspeeding the compressor to death because the wastegate is shut trying to hit target boost.

Why does everyone default to that argument? What crapcan do you guys have standalones in that are blowing couplers all the time?

I do agree with you on this point, "my car still runs when something's wrong," isn't a good reason to base your choice of EMS. However, it did come in handy for me last weekend. Rushing my car onto the trailer in a torrential downpour, I ended up scraping the bottom of my intercooler, pused it back, and punctured the back side. It was convenient still being able to drive off and pull it into the garage like nothing was wrong. Definately worth it... :rolleyes:

[Jonty]

MAF takes ambient temp into account but not the heat added by the turbo, so you always have to map conservatively to avoid det... using MAP you measure pressure and temp at the manifold and so know exactly what condition the air is on entering the engine and can run compensation for high IAT, so can be much more aggressive with the fuel and spark mapping... that's the benefit, not that you have shonky hose clamps :D


I linked this in earlier in the thread, but here it is without the effort of clicking the mouse:
http://img3015.photobox.co.uk/11698754799cce5a34ae48df11d96b8fa3f89cc8088d23d353 95d7627341a56d9a1eb720.jpg

this graph shows a back-to-back comparison of the power and boost given by a chipped std MAF based ECU (blueish line) and a standalone MAP based ECU (greenish line) with the ECU swap being the only difference... the boost control is far better on the standalone as well, so you'll have to ignore the increased power before full boost is achieved, but once it is on full boost the difference is still massive....

[modulation]

MAF takes ambient temp into account but not the heat added by the turbo,

That's only if you have a suck through setup, and not a blow-through setup.

[AceInHole]

MAF takes ambient temp into account but not the heat added by the turbo, so you always have to map conservatively to avoid det... using MAP you measure pressure and temp at the manifold and so know exactly what condition the air is on entering the engine and can run compensation for high IAT, so can be much more aggressive with the fuel and spark mapping... that's the benefit, not that you have shonky hose clamps :D

You can run an IAT trim with a MAF, at least on the EMS. Then again, you could also run a MAF tune with boost comp taking over on boost. The only limitation to the MAF based system is the physical flow limitation of the MAF sensor (wherever it peaks).

Literally, the best thing about MAP is that I don't have to push my car back to the pits with a blown coupler (I guess boost/ vacuum leaks would also count?). Other than that, I haven't found tuning either setup any easier than the other (maybe things change with the higher boost cars?). I guess being able to vent to the atmosphere is nice, though.

[greenman100]

Best part about MAP system is having a blown coupler, not knowing it, then overspeeding the compressor to death because the wastegate is shut trying to hit target boost.

Why does everyone default to that argument? What crapcan do you guys have standalones in that are blowing couplers all the time?

I don't see turbine overspeed as a big issue - you'd feel a lack of boost at WOT and know something's up, and limp home.

Really, there are pros and cons to both setups, but neither are particularly extreme.

[Epstein]

Really, there are pros and cons to both setups, but neither are particularly extreme.

I'm agreeing here. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I'm sorry that all the MAP-based followers got all butt hurt. The bottom line is that if your car isn't working right, it isn't working right. No matter if you're MAF or MAP or carb or steam powered. I just don't see the point in rationalizing what EMS you're going to run around how bad the car will run when it's broken. "well if I get a carbon hood and explode the motor, the pieces will stay inside the engine bay!"

And I'm really going to have to call BS on Jonty's plot. I believe that it happened, but I don't believe that it reflects the truth. All that I see is a properly tuned car, then one that's missing a bunch of timing and has a crummy boost controller. What I find interesting is that the MAP car is making 7psi more boost at 3800rpm, but doesn't show any more power increase than when both setups are at the same boost. Looks like that MAP setup could use more tuning.

To counter, I ran my twinscroll setup on a Haltech with internal boost control and made 427whp. Then I got tired of driving a MAP based car around and went to a ROM tuned ECU/harness on the same setup (swapped to smaller JWT C1's from HKS step3's, actually) with a Gizzmo EBC. 420whp at the same boost level on the same dyno on the same gas, with boost onset in the same place. Both setups tuned in person by the same person, not a one and done dyno pull. Looking at the plots, the 7whp is clearly a function of the larger duration HKS's, with all else being the same.

Inject xx amount of fuel. Spark at xx angle. This is how power is made. How is that at all related to how the volume of air is measured? Engines run on physics, not opinion and marketing.

[Jonty]

What I find interesting is that the MAP car is making 7psi more boost at 3800rpm, but doesn't show any more power increase than when both setups are at the same boost. Looks like that MAP setup could use more tuning.

Erm chap have another look at the graph- the MAP setup is about 30bhp higher at equal boost :)

All that I see is a properly tuned car, then one that's missing a bunch of timing and has a crummy boost controller. ...aka std ECU and Profec B II... it's on open loop control, not so good. Also, this seems at odds with your point above :confused:


Inject xx amount of fuel. Spark at xx angle. This is how power is made. How is that at all related to how the volume of air is measured? Engines run on physics, not opinion and marketing.

Totally agree, but with the chipped/stock ECU you won't run the same spark. You have to run spark that can cope with ambient temps of (for example) 10°C that the car was mapped at as well as 35°C on a hot summers day and the difference between 15 mins of fast road use or 30mins of 80% WOT track time... you've got to be conservative with the mapping if you want reliability cos it's all open loop... if you can get exactly the same results with a stock ECU as a proper tuned aftermarket one with closed loop knock/spark control then I would suggest that the engine must have had a real hard time on the stock ECU- under hard use it must have been really close to ****ting itself!

[Tower240sx]

this is getting funny,but seriously any body here actually lost a coupler on a NISSAN ecu powered MAF car...I have several times it will drive ~fine up to 2500 rpm's with no maf signal.
that WILL get you to the pits fine
and it WILL get you on a trailer fine
and it DID get me off the 110 south at PCH at 11:00 at night on a saturday where i replaced the coupler and drove home all butt hurt

Just for the record

[AceInHole]

this is getting funny,but seriously any body here actually lost a coupler on a NISSAN ecu powered MAF car...I have several times it will drive ~fine up to 2500 rpm's with no maf signal.
that WILL get you to the pits fine
and it WILL get you on a trailer fine
and it DID get me off the 110 south at PCH at 11:00 at night on a saturday where i replaced the coupler and drove home all butt hurt

Just for the record

My KA-T would stall out with a blown coupler back when I was running a MAF (due to either the crap tune or the over-active turbo). Either way, I ran a MAP sensor even with the MAF and used "boost comp" beyond 0 vac. When I got the EMS (for more control over the engine) I ditched the MAF since I already had the MAP sensor. It might've been different if the only option wasn't Bikirom back when I got the EMS, but I've been happy with it (at least now that I've got the coil packs working right).

[KoukiS14]

Any write-ups on how to do coil packs on the Biki? I've still got one sitting around.

[AceInHole]

Any write-ups on how to do coil packs on the Biki? I've still got one sitting around.

I didn't run coil-packs until I had the AEM EMS. The stock KA ECU isn't capable of 4 individual ignition signals, AFAIK. With an SR ECU, it should just be as simple as ditching the igniter and changing the coil dwell.

[Rezlo]

I usually run the PFC D-jetro on most of my 400hp+ SR’s I build, but with my new road race project S14 I thought I would step it up a little, use one of the systems I usually use on my RB’s and similar.

ECU: Link G4 Xtreme,
Coil driver: Dual Link 2 channel’s
Coils: 4X MSD Blaster SS
Inj: 4X RC 1200cc

Complimented by a fairly beefy 8an fuel system pressurized via 4L surge tank and A1000 Aeromotive pump.

Boost control is taken care off with a Gizzmo MS-IBC (what an amazing bit of kit!!!) boost around the back of the track is 1.2bar, main straight 1.7bar and scramble is at 2.1bar

Idea is to be able to use the timed scramble to max the custom GT3040 down the main straight when I have any one running close to my times or I cant pass around the back of the track.

[BEXE]

I usually run the PFC D-jetro on most of my 400hp+ SR’s I build, but with my new road race project S14 I thought I would step it up a little, use one of the systems I usually use on my RB’s and similar.

ECU: Link G4 Xtreme,
Coil driver: Dual Link 2 channel’s
Coils: 4X MSD Blaster SS
Inj: 4X RC 1200cc

Complimented by a fairly beefy 8an fuel system pressurized via 4L surge tank and A1000 Aeromotive pump.

Boost control is taken care off with a Gizzmo MS-IBC (what an amazing bit of kit!!!) boost around the back of the track is 1.2bar, main straight 1.7bar and scramble is at 2.1bar

Idea is to be able to use the timed scramble to max the custom GT3040 down the main straight when I have any one running close to my times or I cant pass around the back of the track.

Did you look into the Fuelabs products? I would recommend the 565 regulator and the controllable pumps. I just finished my fuel system with a similar setup to yours; except I am -10 send and return; with fuelab 565 reg and fuelab 1300hp pump. Mine was designed for use with e85.

[Bubba]

Wow, this thread was a great read. I honestly expected to see more people going with standalone setups than this.

I'm running stock ECU w/ an AFC Neo for now just to keep my AFR's in a decent range(building a KA-t on the side), but am still questioning what I want to tune with after the engine build is finished. NisTune sounds like a sure winner but I'm liable to mess with it and blow something up. Buddy of mine runs MS3 on his Z and swears by it, but I'm not too impressed with anything I've seen from Squirt. The tuner I want to use seems to work wonders with AEM and with the results I've seen from him that alone may sell me on an AEM unit.
As far as modded ECU's go I have always been a fan of the RS-Enthalpy units, may even get one for my current NA setup just to have as my back-up in case something goes wrong with the build.

I don't know yet though. Decisions Decisions...

[BEXE]

Oh also Ive been on an Autronic smc/500r setup for a little over 4 years. I use CBR coils, and run it on e85. I've had great success with the setup.

[tonto]

just thought i'd mention that MS3 has support for the high res CAS on sr20det now.

see http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/optispark.html

[Umai Kakudo]

Does anyone have experience with ViPec? Particularly the SR plug and play setup?

[BEXE]

My buddy who is the software engineer for c2motorsports raves about them. It is what I plan to upgrade to V-88. If you can afford it; it has probably the best Autotune capabilities; it is the brainchild of Ray Hall (autronic guy). Think SM4 upgraded. It works great from my reading with the sr20det CAS. I've seen it working on a few S4's and it was pretty baller.

[Your Mom]

Does anyone have experience with ViPec? Particularly the SR plug and play setup?

isn't Doug not far from you? UP garage