Track Day Tire Options

[ramm]

Well i've been doing some reading as always but would like to get some feedback from some people that have actually been doing it with what I have. S-Chassis btw.

Since Toyo is now starting to phaze out the RA1 do you think it would be worth it to purchase a set of RA1's at about 170 a piece?

Purchase R888 at 188 a piece?

Still waiting on some pricing for NT01's, but hopefully it should be around there.

Any thoughts on these tire choices?

Which one lasts the longest in your opinion? How many sessions did you get out of them?

Just basic info needed here..

BTW: going on 17x9 wheel

so 255/40/17 is going to be the prefered tire size

Oh yea heres the link where I found these prices..if you know a better price guide LMK..other than that theres free shipping for me since the warehouse is 5 minutes away from my house (local pickup if needed).

Tiredeals4less.com

Anyone have experience with the R1R's?

[spool_sample]

City Tire has NT01s in 255/40/17 for $163/tire... something to consider.

www.citytireonline.com

Other than that, I have nothing else to contribute since I have not driven on any of those tires yet.

[turtl631]

Have you spent much time on the track? I think you learn a lot more on street tires at first. You'll get a lot more tire/$ too, since they last longer. But mostly, it just makes more sense to get a feel for your car driving on a sticky street tire. This is much more indepth...I jacked it from bimmerforums, and I've been in the author's car, and if my car can behave anything like his did (with RS2s and DA Konis, coincidentally), I'll be ecstatic:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=935971&highlight=street+tires

I have said this before about Rcomps and DEs.

The other tire in the smae boat with the Toyo is the Yokohama Ao32R. It is also a "transitional" rcomp. It is stickier than a street tire but does not have the sharp traction plateau of the true race rcomps(hoosiers, 710s) I had a student who had some rcomp experience and was running AO32Rs on his new to him K prepared 325i. He related to me that they were the previous owners "rain tire". He did fine on them. But when he tried out the Pilot Sport Cups that were the "dry tire" he spun the car. He exceded the peak grip of them and headed down the backside of the traction curve just too fast. He wasn't experienced enough that he could interperet what they were telling him before it was too late. No blood, no foul, he went back to the AO32Rs. I guess the moral of this story is are you sure you can drive well enough to use rcomps to their fullest extent and not get in over your head like my student? Another reason not to use them is that rcomps cover up lots of mistakes and make you think you are better than you are. My last school at Road Atlanta I had a student in the C group that had 9 schools under his belt but was driving his new ITS 325i. It had Hoosiers on it. He was one of the fastest in his run group and drove ok but he was making a lot of mistakes that the Hoosiers were covering for him. Since he was no where near the limit of the car and suspension the tires would stick about anywhere he put the car. This made it look like he was hitting the turns right but it was the tires saving his butt not his driving. And the way it felt to him it was hard to make the point that he needed to make some changes. Overall the point is that unless you are driving the street tires you have to their absolute limits ie: you can hang the rear end out around any turn at will and get it back without scaring yourself, you need to stay on the street tires. If you are at that point then by all means make the jump. You will have a lot of fun. Just my 2 cents worth as an instructor.

Kind of covers the points I like to make against using them. When you can drive it like you stole it without really worrying about balling it up from a mistake you make then you are ready for rcomps.

This was a little later in the same thread:

There is no scare, there is no campaign against rcomps. I and other experienced instructors have chimed in and said that in our experience rcomp tires tend to mask mistakes, and give false sense of "quickness" that implies to a student that they "are getting it done". It is just our experience. But I will say again that when you can drive the street tire to it's limit in every corner and have instructors tell you that this car will not go any faster with it's current setup that is the ok time to go ahead and make the jump to rcomps IMHO. I would also say that while you are learning to trail brake and rotate the car anywhere you want to that street tires are way less expensive to burn up in the learning process. When you accidentally cord a $90 Hankook versus a $160 Toyo your wallet will thank you. And I still think that you can get comparable milage out of a decent street tire compared to an rcomp. My set of street tires right now has about 1100 hard track miles plus another 3000 or so street miles and they are 2mm or so above the wear bars. This also allows for rain not to be a factor in my decisions to go out in a run group. Many will say that RA1s are fine in the wet but wet is one thing and continuous rain is a whole other story.


I still run street tires as I tend to be harder on tires than the average driver. Street tires make it cheaper to go to the track for me. I have Hankook RS212s on right now and the next set will be the same. These are great tires for the money and I routinely "impress" other instructors with faster cars and rcomps who have not seen me before. I do not want to toot my own horn but at just about every event I will see a person over looking at my tires and scratching their head. The point being that you can be as fast as most instructors on rcomps with street tires and a well set up car if you truly know what you are doing. (Barring Z06s and such). Which is the point.

Learn to drive the car to it's max on streets then switch if you want to be that little bit faster.


There are a few other diatribes against rcomps that I have written in the last few years. This covers most of the points i have made in them. R comps are great tires, made for the track, and a lot of fun. But if you can't drive them to their limit and play there happily, why bother? The Z212 is stiff enough that you won't be rolling it over on it's sidewall, and you can work on all of the things that make you a better driver at lower speeds, with more notification from the tires, and with an easier recovery once you exceed peak grip. I would say that until unusual attitude recovery tactics are instinctive and you begin them without thought(IE countersteer and steady throttle in a rear loose situation) streets are where you need to be. Once it is instinctive then proceed to rcomp land and have a blast. Just my two cents.

[ecugrad]

RA-1's are ok, the closer to cording them your are, the faster you will be. At full tread, some people have problems with chunking them on hot days.

Honestly, something like a Bridgestone RE010R would probably last longer and be close to a RA-1

[McCoy]

For street tires that are used on the track... which I recommend for anyone that is still a novice, the RE01R's is a good choice, but get expensive when you get wider than a 225. Another street tire that seems to do really good on track, is the Potenza RE050A Pole Position. A local friend that I track with runs these on his Supra and the tires seems to hold up to heat as good as the RE01R's, they have great grip, and so far have plenty of life left even after 5 track days on the heavy supra. They also do alot better in the rain than an Azenis or NT-01 tire.

Price isn't as cheap as the RS2's or Azenis, but are not has high as the RA1's either... $155 per tire for the 255/40/17 at tirerack.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE050A+Pole+Position&partnum=54YR7RE050APP&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=3

As for a decision between the RA-1 and NT-01, I'd go with the NT-01. The RA-1 should really be shaved for use in the dry, where-as the NT-01 does not.

[ramm]

i have driven on R-Comps before and have done one session of Road America on Pirelli Slicks (Ferarri Cup Takeoffs) all on an E36 M3 coupe. The R-Comps were Pilot Sport Cups btw.

Yea i was really looking forward to be getting a set of R-Comps, i honestly don't think i need to "learn" anymore on street tires..but my budget is calling for it.

I found someone local that is going to source me a set of Falken Azenis in 17/40/255 for about $124 a tire..then all i have to pay is 7% tax and im set. Either way i should be pleased..this way i can drive to the track and back with these tires and still not have to worry about flinging rocks and debris on the road.

I know this probably has been covered many times...but any thoughts on the Azenis 615's? Going to be doing Auto-X and HPDE duty with them. I just hope Blackhawk Farms Raceway doesn't make them "grease" up like the rumors that i have heard.

[turtl631]

I was hoping to run those tires in that size myself. Is your source for these a secret hookup or would you mind sharing?

I think there's always something to be learned as a driver, but if you feel that you won't be impeding yourself at all on R comps, go for it. I personally want to stay with at least one more set of street tires, but part of that is motivated by finances.

[ramm]

turtle check your pm's

[ramm]

ok i finally installed the 255/40-17 Azenis on RPF1's 9.0 +22...pics will be up shortly..i'll make a short build thread

[a_ahmed]

Nice, another rpf1 guy :)

[turtl631]

Ha, I love how certain wheels take the Nissan world by storm, then the next hot wheel appears and everyone ditches.

Anyone remember FN01RCs?

[spool_sample]

Ha, I love how certain wheels take the Nissan world by storm, then the next hot wheel appears and everyone ditches.

Anyone remember FN01RCs?

I had FN01R-Cs on my MR2. :p

But yeah, tons of people with RPF1s now. There were only a handful of folks with them when I bought mine, now it's easy to find Pearl White/RPF1 S14s on the forums.

[ramm]

I contradicted a past statement that i had previously made on this board about RPF1's being played out. But then again i took into consideration the price I got them for and the sizing and weight that they came in. Not to mention the aesthetics aren't all that bad.

16.3lbs for 17x9.0

[Your Mom]

i've done all my track days with 615's. there ok. ready to try something else thou. price is hard to beat.

[racepar1]

I went the azenis route to start and have learned a lot about how to really drive the car. I now feel that I have pretty much topped out what I can do with the azenis without more horsepower so I am switching to r-compounds. I would highly reccomend that you start on real street tires and once you are about as fast as you can get and keeping up with the guys running r-compounds then it is time to step it up. In my experience most people don't know what fast really is. Keeping your nose in the mirrors of a guy running r-compounds will teach you what fast really is.