Motoria Suspension Links Pre-Install

[veilside180sx]

Overall they don't look too bad at all. Appears to be 1/8" thick steel on the ends, which should be more than sufficient to not bend through any normal range of motion it'll encounter.

[e1_griego]

I have the motoria rucas in my s13 (the 5/8" rod end stuff) and haven't had a problem with them for almost a year. I'm not confident about them, but so far so good :P I need to just get the spl stuff and quit messing around. Alex

[AceInHole]

The arms look identical to the older SPL stuff, right down to the ball joints. I've heard stuff about the rear toe links bending, though. I guess I'll carry spares untill I'm sure they'll hold up, but even then, I could just reinforce them. It'd be cooler if I made some aluminum billet arms, though :) I think these will work, and I'm still tempted to replace all the ball joints. However, they're M16x2.00, which isn't as easy to get in a high quality rod end.

[veilside180sx]

Out of curiousity...why did they send you S13 and S14 RUCA? Here's pics of my old SPL multilink setup... http://northwestnissans.com/photopost/data/500/3509splarms-med.jpg http://northwestnissans.com/photopost/data/500/3509betterarmsspindle-med.jpg http://northwestnissans.com/photopost/data/500/3509subframeside-med.jpg http://northwestnissans.com/photopost/data/500/3509subframetop-med.jpg

[AceInHole]

I've got no clue as to why they sent extra arms.... Anyways, what rear subframe bushings are those?

[veilside180sx]

I've got no clue as to why they sent extra arms.... Anyways, what rear subframe bushings are those? They are ES bushings. At different points on my S chassis...I had SPL collars, ES bushings, and then SPL solid bushings.

[AceInHole]

Hmm... Energy Suspension doesn't seem to list a full replacement bushing, just an insert (or reuse existing metal pieces?). I'm debating filling my stock subframe bushings with a poly fill, like window seal, and then run subframe inserts in conjunction with that. Ideally I'd like solid poly, as I'm sketchy on running full solid mounts. My reasoning is that some shock absorbtion in the subframe and diff mounts would help reduce the chance of driveline shock or even bumps in the road from upsetting the rear end. Other than that it's also less vibration fatigue on the chassis. Any comments or am I over thinking it and should just run solid?

[veilside180sx]

Hmm... Energy Suspension doesn't seem to list a full replacement bushing, just an insert (or reuse existing metal pieces?). I'm debating filling my stock subframe bushings with a poly fill, like window seal, and then run subframe inserts in conjunction with that. Ideally I'd like solid poly, as I'm sketchy on running full solid mounts. My reasoning is that some shock absorbtion in the subframe and diff mounts would help reduce the chance of driveline shock or even bumps in the road from upsetting the rear end. Other than that it's also less vibration fatigue on the chassis. Any comments or am I over thinking it and should just run solid? With the collars the subframe could still move slightly. ES bushings are similar to a lot of their motor mount inserts. (2 halves with a metal bushing through the middle) My preference is the solid bushings. Although the poly will allow it to move a little, it would also allow it to whiplash the stud as it gives a little and then recenters. (the ES felt just as rough as the solids as far as vibration is concerned) I have not heard of any fatigue failures as of yet caused by them, but I have heard of a myriad of crack subframes caused by drifting. (usually smacking something)

[McCoy]

Richard, I didn't think ES made any inserts for the rear subframe of the S13? Maybe I'm thinking of something else then... I'm sure my subframe bushings are more than shot (167K miles) and that clunking I can still here in the rearend if I launch alittle to hard probably is a good indicator. I'd still prefer to try some collars for the time being and go from there. PJ - what were you running for arms on your last S14?

[veilside180sx]

You are correct they are not listed for a S13 subframe, but they work just jim dandy=) Richard, I didn't think ES made any inserts for the rear subframe of the S13? Maybe I'm thinking of something else then... I'm sure my subframe bushings are more than shot (167K miles) and that clunking I can still here in the rearend if I launch alittle to hard probably is a good indicator. I'd still prefer to try some collars for the time being and go from there. PJ - what were you running for arms on your last S14?

[AceInHole]

PJ - what were you running for arms on your last S14? I ran Ebay RUCAs and tension rods with stock arms everywhere else (ES bushings). I felt I could get the alignment that I wanted, so figured I wouldn't gain much in getting all new arms. In retrospect I paid way too much attention to the engine, and not nearly enough attention to dampers/ alignments.

[AceInHole]

So, I found my rod ends to be M16x2.00, which sucks because there aren't many metric rod end sizes available in the US. The only ones I found from the "major" racing companies are $60 ones from Aurora. I figured I'd use those for the tension rods if it comes to it, but I found another company called Midwest Control Products (http://www.midwestcontrol.com/), that I saw a couple people use in Locost and 4x4 builds. I figured I'd try their performance (chromoly) and teflon lined joints, so hopefully those come in soon and I'll see how they are. Also got the Wicked tie rod ends in. They have 3 piece teflon lined heim joints, so they don't seem too bad. They're M14x1.5 threaded, and have adjustable bumpsteer from stock, .2", and .4". Just have to order the seals-it rod end seals and I'll be good to go.

[veilside180sx]

The McMaster Carr stuff is made by name brand manufacturers (QA1 and another that I can't think of off the top of my head). n/m that one...just checked they are $70 for a 16x2. I haven't seen enough of the Wicked stuff to know whether it's worthwhile or not. If you are willing to drill out your spindle you can get a bumpsteer bolt/spacers (Allstar) for like $20 then you just use a trustworthy 5/8" rod end. So, I found my rod ends to be M16x2.00, which sucks because there aren't many metric rod end sizes available in the US. The only ones I found from the "major" racing companies are $60 ones from Aurora. I figured I'd use those for the tension rods if it comes to it, but I found another company called Midwest Control Products (http://www.midwestcontrol.com/), that I saw a couple people use in Locost and 4x4 builds. I figured I'd try their performance (chromoly) and teflon lined joints, so hopefully those come in soon and I'll see how they are. Also got the Wicked tie rod ends in. They have 3 piece teflon lined heim joints, so they don't seem too bad. They're M14x1.5 threaded, and have adjustable bumpsteer from stock, .2", and .4". Just have to order the seals-it rod end seals and I'll be good to go.

[AceInHole]

The problem with using the 5/8" rod end is you'd have to make a new coupler to attach it to the inner tie-rod. If you're running a bolt through it, you could just have an aluminum spacer machined that fits between the spindle and a high grade 14mm bolt. It wouldn't be hard to do on a lathe.

[McCoy]

The previous owner of my 240 purchased the C-tune RUCA and from what I remember he replaced the rod ends with the Aurora's. He probably had the same issue you did PJ... as being costly with the metric thread.

[AceInHole]

Midwest Control does a lot of UK business as well, so they have a decent metric line. They have chromoly heims with teflon/ ptfe liners for like $6 a pop for the M16x2.00. They were the cheapest rod ends I could find in the US with liners, so I figured they'd be worth at least a look.

[veilside180sx]

Midwest Control does a lot of UK business as well, so they have a decent metric line. They have chromoly heims with teflon/ ptfe liners for like $6 a pop for the M16x2.00. They were the cheapest rod ends I could find in the US with liners, so I figured they'd be worth at least a look. Do they list the load ratings on them?

[AceInHole]

I just noticed they don't list that in their catalogues. I can assume they'd be as strong or stronger than the "chinese" rod ends, which are load rated to some 8000 lbs, however one might question the quality control. MCP is at least ISO9001 certified, so it's at least one step up. Regardless, I shot them an e-mail asking about the DXTM line specifically ("performance" chromoly rod ends).

[AceInHole]

Had a package waiting for me at home when I got off work today. The rod ends from Midwest Control Products came in. There's good and bad news. The good news: - Beefy construction - Looks like a 3 piece unit with a teflon liner - Size is perfect to replace the Motoria rod ends that have a thin neck section The bad news: - "CHINA" is stamped on them All in all, I think they'll do the job. At left is the heim that came with the Wicked Tuning tie rods. 2nd from Left is the stock Motoria heim. 2nd from right is the DWTM-16 "standard wide" metric heim. Far right is the DXTM "performance" metric heim. http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/IMG_8899.jpg Here's the Motoria vs. DWTM closeup: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/IMG_8902.jpg And finally, the thickness factor: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/IMG_8903.jpg The MCP heims were cheap (about $6 a pop) and they came in about a week. I'm just waiting on my SealsIt order to come in and I'll start on installing them, hopefully by the end of the week!

[veilside180sx]

There definately is quite a bit more material on the shoulder of the new one. The Motoria ones looks like a "high mistalignment" rod end, but that isn't necessary typically as long as it has decent movement.

[AceInHole]

Got my Seals-It order in the other day. I was debating going full boots or just seals, but the seals seemed as though they'd expose the heim at full tilt. It shouldn't be a problem, as the control arms are bound by the bushings so they shouldn't ever move much outside of one axis. So, at the expense of making maintenance slightly harder (rather than just gooping grease on, have to take the arms off to get in the boot), I ran full boots, which should extened the time between maintenance periods. Here's a pic of all the arms and also the Wicked Tie rods, with and without boots, and some with the newer stronger rod ends: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6164.jpg Here's the 14mm tie rod ends with and without boots: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6165.jpg Full boot on the left. New heims center. Old heim on the right: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6170.jpg The boots are crazy stretchy. The same boot will work for 14mm to 18mm heims (smaller and larger boots are available). For ****s and giggles I threw a boot on one of the S13 control arms, with the huge heim spacers, just to see how far the openings would stretch: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6169.jpg http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6168.jpg These things are definitely quality, and I'm very glad I went with them. 2 packs (6 per pack) will take care of all the normal arms, and a 3rd pack would finish it off for front and rear lower control arms (when I eventually get them). With the arm ends using spherical bearings, the face-seated seals may be better, though. I'm gonna try them on the spherical bearings for my camber plates later. Hopefully next week I'll have the subframe bushings in, and the new arms installed and aligned. I've got like a month left before the next event though.

[veilside180sx]

Those seals look pretty handy...amazing they'll stretch that far and still be strong enough to not tear.

[Benito Malito]

I know the payoff is better handling versus B series, but looking at all those components makes my eyes go crossed.

[veilside180sx]

I found load ratings for the DXTM 16x2mm rod ends...static radial load rating is 17711 lbs.

[AceInHole]

Finally finished getting the rear end together: Solid aluminum subframe bushings, Energy Suspension diff bushings, and all the multilink crap. No spindle bushings since I'll be swapping to Z32 spindles later on when the LCA's and rear shocks are done! http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6252.jpg http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6254.jpg http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6268.jpg Hopefully I'll have it aligned by this weekend!

[veilside180sx]

Can you take a picture of the Z32 spindle sitting next to the current setup?

[AceInHole]

Can you take a picture of the Z32 spindle sitting next to the current setup? Yup. I'll try and get that tonight when I'm going through all the bolts.

[Invisible_Saddle]

Is it legal for you to reinforce the OE subframe? In a similar fashion to how the s15 subframe is reinforced along the rear diff mount, and between the traction and toe links.

[AceInHole]

Nope. I can only add some lateral bracing with no longitudinal component. Although, atm I'm not even running any bracing. Not even a front strut tower bar! Anyways, I got all the front stuff in on Friday and never had a chance to post. I really like the Motoria front tension rods. They seem extremely well built. They didn't have any studs or hardware for the bolts to the LCA though, but luckily the rear wheel studs from a 240sx press right in! http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6271.jpg Also installed Wicked Tuning tie rods and tie-rod ends. They're pretty thick, so I think they'll do the trick. It turned out one of the stock ones was already bent! http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6273.jpg http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6272.jpg Also installed was an Energy Suspension steering rack bushing. The only one that fit was the driver's side bushing. The passenger side is too thin, and even after I trimmed it a 1/4" as some people have reported, it just didn't work. I'll probably get a hard-race one off Ebay and see if that fits on the passenger side. Anyways, with everything installed, all I have left are the lower control arms front and rear, and the spindle bushings to do, which I'll get to when swapping to aluminum uprights. Less unsprung weight, better ball joint lengths, and less bushing stiction = "awesomer" handling!! Speaking of awesome handling, I did all the alignments on Saturday for a race on Sunday. I figured I might as well try some new stuff, as with no turbo, I didn't have much of a chance at winning the regional runoff (end of year "battle" betwee class champions). As you can see from the tension rod pic, they're pretty much as short as it can get before I have zero tire clearance to the sheetmetal. I'm running a guestimated 10deg caster, so I felt fine with a mild 2'ish degrees (using a straightedge with a bubble level as my "gauge"). It's about as much camber as I can get, as the bolt holes on the struts are slightly off (I believe they're parallel with the strut instead of angled in, or possibly it's the distance from the bolts to the strut body). Although, with the camber plates maxed, the greater angle of the strut mount to the lower ball joint should give me a better camber curve through a larger range of travel. In the back, I knocked the eccentric bolts "out" to get the upper arms shorter, which should increase the rate of camber gain (more deflection = more camber). With the angle they're at, I can actually get it to dip near positive camber as the suspension reaches full droop, so during body roll, I'm hoping both tires stay "flat". This combined with attempts to reduce bumpsteer and longitudinal drift of the axle during suspension movement, equates to a more "planted" (planteder?) rear end. Overall, I think it all worked! I honestly didn't think I'd be anywhere near the top but as the day went on, my times just kept dropping. My co-driver and I had a pretty huge battle going back and forth for the season championship, as we were both getting used to the car after driving several stock class cars for the past few events. In the end, I had one blistering fast run, good enough for the season win, and getting me into the regional runoff between class champions. My last run of the day was extremely fast, but carried a cone. Without the cone, it was right on par with some of the top drivers in the nation, and I haven't even started on engine work (I'm running maaaaybe 120rwhp?)!! Needless to say, I am VERY pleased with how my suspension is turning out. I can't even begin to imagine what it'll be capable of when I get some 8611's in back, and some new lower control arms!! And oh yeah.... a power "bump" to 350rwhp might help a bit, too :)

[2Fass240us]

PJ, any pictures of how the car sits after the suspension mods? Did you do the alignment yourself or have someone else do it? If the latter, who? -Andy

[AceInHole]

I did the alignment myself using some home depot lasers. It was pretty close, and required some minor tweaking as I went along. 3 measuring tapes, 2 long straightedges with levels, and a couple laser string thingies. I'll try and snag some pics later. My rear end turned out pretty damn low, though :P

[McCoy]

Yes, I'm also curious how low the front of your car is... seeing as how that is how low my car will be once I get the 8610's up front.

[AceInHole]

I'm pretty sure I could get my lip to scrape with the springs dumped..... It might be interesting to try, although it's raining out atm :(

[AceInHole]

I found some pics on my photobucket album. Here's how the spring perches are set: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/suspensions/DSC_6276.jpg Note how I have a few inches to go till they're dropped. I'm not sure if this is on the Konis or the D2's: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/DSC_6120.jpg I believe it's pretty close. I'll make sure later on with another updated pic.

[AceInHole]

And a pic of how the car currently sits: http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/DSC_6284.jpg Sorry about the quality. Like i said: it's raining and dark out :P You can see how short my tension rods are, though. My front tires are barely clearing atm. I'l hopefully get more clearance when I knock the upper strut mounts back a bit.

[2Fass240us]

Looks like crap. I love it! :) My next S-chassis will definitely be a S14SE. Thanks PJ.

[veilside180sx]

Are you going to rock flares on the back of this like the Panda?

[AceInHole]

I'm kind of hoping to run overfenders or actual flares. The only reason I did what I did on Panda was because it was done the night before leaving for the Dixie Tour down in GA. Hoping this car gets done a liiiittle bit earlier than that :P

[veilside180sx]

I'm kind of hoping to run overfenders or actual flares. The only reason I did what I did on Panda was because it was done the night before leaving for the Dixie Tour down in GA. Hoping this car gets done a liiiittle bit earlier than that :P I thought the flares looked hot personally=) I'd love to pick up an english wheel to be able to some real steel ones. I'm not a big fan of fiberglass for that stuff...