A few SR questions.

[speed_demon]

So I started a V8 swap which ended up giving me tons of headaches, and after most of a year I was still trying to get it up and running. I decided to revisit the swap later.

Because I need to get my 240 mobile very shortly or I am going to be out of luck, I am looking into dropping in a basic SR.

From searching around I know some of the basics for the swap.

What do people typically run for a bypass valve (Bosch?), and how do you typically tie this into the intercooler piping? Not looking to run a BOV for noise reasons.

Can anybody recommend me a good budget FMIC intercooler setup?

I have a newer stock replacement cat back exhaust, what exhaust parts am I going to need to purchase yet for the swap? (I assume a turbo elbow, down pipe, and test pipe)

[slider2828]

I run HKS SSQV and they are fine as long as you recirculate them... Any recirculated blow off valve back into the intake will be much more quiet...

Budget, probably go with a hi-mount pbm or you can always go like cxracing.com.... All of them are meh.....

yup that is it for the exhaust.

[logr]

The bosche type bov has to be recirculated as it leaks at idle, like most stock type do. It is the cheapest and I have had better luck with it and not bucking.

The cheapest i/c is stock type and could come with the swap. It is adequate for a stock turbo. Otherwise a cx racing one and move the radiator back.

Swap comes with turbo outlet. You need a downpipe and test pipe.

[speed_demon]

Where are most guys buying their engines from?

I see some nice pullouts on ebay. Some of the sellers have lots of great feedback, so that's a plus.

Was looking at this one in particular. http://www.ebay.com/itm/170748348955?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Def]

Where are you located? I should have an SR up for sale soon.

[coors75]

If your looking for a cheap bov a lot of fwd sr guys use the dsm bov. You grab those for a song. Recirc it isnt that loud and your turbo will thank you.

[speed_demon]

Where are you located? I should have an SR up for sale soon.Green Bay, WI. And you're quite a ways away.

[Def]

Gotcha, if you were close I was just throwing that out there.

[speed_demon]

I see some people recommending an S14 SR as being better for power levels under 300whp due to the VTC.

If an S13 SR and an S14 SR were both around the same price and condition, is there any obvious reason not to go with the S14 SR, besides wiring and intercooler differences?

[konjiki7]

I see no reason not too especially if they're both around the same price.

[turtl631]

S14 gets you a nicer turbo and the VTC. Tuning options are more limited with that ECU, but for a close to stock setup, I think the newer engine with the bigger turbo is the best choice. If you're planning to modify more down the line, the S13 keeps things simpler.

[speed_demon]

I ordered an S13 blacktop along with some exhaust parts and a cheap non BOV style intercooler.

Thanks for the help guys!

[Def]

You should toss my CP pistons in it while it's out for more awesomeness. Selling them for dealer cost!

[speed_demon]

I wish I could except I ran out of money around the third or fourth new O.E gasket.

Now why is it people love JDM so much? It certainly isn't because it's cheap!

[Def]

Really? A whole redtop rebuild kit is like $110-120 with all OEM gaskets??

Don't buy them individually, that's a ripoff. If you need more than 2-3 it's worth it just to buy the whole kit.

[speed_demon]

I went back and ordered a tubular exhaust manifold after the other orders were complete, so that added another 2 new gaskets to the cost. Cheap insurance over the included gaskets.

I would have been better off ordering a whole set though in retrospect.

Edit: Are ARP exhaust manifold studs worth buying when it comes time to swap on the new exhaust manifold?

[e1_griego]

Stick with the stock manifold. Zero reason to upgrade.

[speed_demon]

Weight reduction. That's one good reason. ;)

[e1_griego]

A bad one.

[leetfade]

Who did you order your motor from and what did it run you if you don't mind me asking?

[speed_demon]

I ordered it from Nagano USA (http://www.naganousa.com/) out of VA, it was $2K shipped to my door.

The motor set looks to be in great shape and I confirmed with the owner beforehand that the harness wasn't cut.

[leetfade]

That includes the intercooler, right? If not that's actually really high for an S13 motor.

It looks like they provide compression test results so that's good.

[speed_demon]

Nope, no intercooler. I did some shopping around and didn't find any that were much cheaper.

[leetfade]

I'm surprised they're up to that... We need to lock in our JDM importer soon..

[speed_demon]

For those running Greddy style intake manifolds, what did you do for your cold pipe?

[hydra]

Greddy have a cold pipe that's made for use with their intake manifold if you're not up to fabbing your own. Its not cheap though (for what it is)

[eye-5]

Were you going to do a stock style intercooler? If not the PBM setup has real short piping and when you order, you specify Greddy style intake or stock. They send you the right one. They even have options for different turbos, a popular turbo upgrade is the S15 one but it is clocked different so IC piping will change without adapters.

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?11

[leetfade]

This may work for you: http://www.endurancemotorsports.net/greddy/greddy_intercooler_piping_kits/12020920/i-177742.aspx

Or this: http://www.endurancemotorsports.net/greddy/greddy_intake_manifold/13920413/i-395249.aspx

Ignore the picture and read the description. :-P Special Piping
Adapts Part # 13522318 w/ GReddy FMIC

My biggest concern would be if your FMIC aligns differently than the Greddy for some reason.

[speed_demon]

Thanks for the links guys. If I do with the greddy manifold I will figure something out myself.

I do love how the manifold cleans up much of that side of the block, making working under it a possibility.

[speed_demon]

Alright guys, I have the tubular exhaust manifold here and I took a good look over it. The welds look good, with what looks like good penetration. Nothing appears like a major design flaw at first glance.

I do understand that they have been known to crack, although where they crack is typically not mentioned. I am assuming though that this would be in the collector area as this area looks to be difficult to get a decent weld.

Would adding parallel cuts (slots) to the manifold flange to allow for expansion and contraction be beneficial at all? (This is touched upon in Maximum Boost)

How about having a competent fabricator go over the manifold and see if they can improve on any of the welds?

[Tower240sx]

that's gonna cost you as much as the manifold...but It's what I did to get a V-band t28 manifold, bought a tubular and sent it out to get properized

[speed_demon]

Yeah, I kinda thought that myself.

I do have another question though. I noticed the turbo on this engine isn't a stock unit. Can anybody tell me anything about this, safe boost/power limits?

Part number is 14411-69F00, and a quick google search says it's a late S14 or S15 auto trans T28 BB unit.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/speed_demon1/240SX%20picture%20log/Blacktop%20SR/068.jpg

[leetfade]

If it's the factory T28 then you're looking about a max efficient boost range at around 14psi. After that it's primarily a heat pump.

You can get close to the 300whp range (give or take) I would guess. I never really pushed mine all that hard and had 258.8 @ 9psi and that was with a couple issues.

[Tower240sx]

yeah...about 300 is the correct answer, you can get more on Zilvia...but NRR spec is 300ish

[leetfade]

LoL "NRR Spec". You mean actually taking into account maximum efficiency range of the turbo versus highest total hp achievable, regardless of reliability?

[Def]

Zilvia spec involves phantom detonation and boost over 16 psi towards redline which is not advisable even with a good fmic.

[speed_demon]

Alright guys, thanks for help. Most of the info I found seemed a bit off for this little hairdryer, and some of it was indeed read on Zilvia.

I did find a post by Def from quite a few years back talking about whether this unit was a BB or journal bearing turbo. I've seen both claimed for the same unit, same part number...

[WorkInProgressK]

Alright guys, thanks for help. Most of the info I found seemed a bit off for this little hairdryer, and some of it was indeed read on Zilvia.

I did find a post by Def from quite a few years back talking about whether this unit was a BB or journal bearing turbo. I've seen both claimed for the same unit, same part number...

GTIR's are supposed to have the same housings for the turbo and compressor but has journal internals. S14's have the BB version.

Easy test is to listens if the turbo is still turning after a while at shutdown. BB ones turn for quite a while.

[coors75]

yeah...about 300 is the correct answer, you can get more on Zilvia...but NRR spec is 300ish

This is great... and why I am on NRR. As for the GTiR are journal bearing the s14 and s15 t28 are BB. I have all three just to validate my answer. S15 better response; GTir has a lager exhaust housing so more potential WHP.

Your turbo looks just like my s14 t28.

[Def]

Yea, the spindown when you shutoff the car is an easy one. You should hear it spin for about 5-6 seconds on shutdown (easier with the filter off if your intake muffles sound well, like using the stock rubber boot which you should ditch if that's the case).

But yea, it's a solid turbo for about 250-290 rwhp reliably. Running more than that is not advisable for long term usage or something like track work.

[speed_demon]

Looks like I will have some more questions here as I progress. My injectors look like plain purple tops, and I am hoping the ECU itself was tuned for the T28 rather than an SAFC.

Also, More minor issues. Hopefully minor.

I pulled the harness off to start modifying it and I noticed the TB wouldn't open. I pulled the TB off and....

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/speed_demon1/240SX%20picture%20log/Blacktop%20SR/013.jpg

Crap. How deep does this rabbit hole go?

The lower plenum looks the same. I'm not sure what it is, but it looks water related.

Hopefully with the plenum being below the cylinders it didn't damage anything.

[slidewayzagain]

time to "talk" to your engine seller cause bought a running engine,
that doesn't look runable to me...

[leetfade]

yyyeeaaahhhh.. that looks a little scary.

[speed_demon]

I took a better look at the plenum and the junk seems to have stopped an inch or so behind the TB.

The seller didn't offer much help, only stating "I checked this engine before I posted on EBay there shouldn't be no problem"

Back to my toiling away then.

[leetfade]

Good luck, man. That's why I'm taking so long trying to find an engine importer for the business. There are quite a bit that just don't put any effort into making sure the engines are quality.... I hope it's nothing major!

[speed_demon]

Rather than make another thread I will just ask in here. Most of my knowledge base was towards the LS engine, so I am still digging in an doing my homework on the SR.

My goal is a high response/quick spooling engine rather than just sheer power. Let's say 280-300whp on the higher end. What is the general consensus for the turbo to go with? GT2871?

I am seeing the GT2871 popping up all over the place on the net, and it's offered in a fairly drop in ready style. Would this need a new AFM, and what size injectors do people typically run for this sized turbo?

[Def]

280 rwhp is easily doable with a "T28" - i.e. GT2560R. The stock S14/S15 SRs came with this turbo, and it offers great response. I did 300 rwhp on mine with the wick turned up, but it generally requires a bit more timing than I'd like for a DD/track engine.

They're cheap and have a BB CHRA.

Figure on 550 cc injectors minimum and a Z32/N62 MAF along with some tuning to control it all (which really isn't that hard to do yourself).

A 300 rwhp SR is a way cheaper proposition than a stock LS1 in an S chassis.

[speed_demon]

The turbo that was included with my engine pullout already is an S14/S15 GT2560, so I'm good there.

And 550's should be good for the 2560? I believe the engine has 370's on it now, which the PO was using with this turbo.

What do you recommend for tuning? I was drooling over the haltech but that seems overkill for my modest goal.

Power FC's are available at good prices on the used market, although I hear they are fairly limited.

[e1_griego]

Either a rom tune or a pfc is the easy button.

370s = stock injectors.

[Def]

I'd get a ROM tune before having to F around with a PFC. They give decent results, but it's basically like a stock S13 computer with a gameboy to program it. If you can put up with that headache, you can tune a ROM via ROM editor.

550's will do around 350 rwhp or so. If you think you'll want around 400 rwhp in the future I'd get some 740's, but they are pricier.

The cheap option for injectors is yellow STi sidefeeds which are about 540-550 cc. Just solder in Subaru sidefeed clips.

[e1_griego]

Y U gotta h8, breh?

I've been plenty happy with my PFC(s) -- it helps when you have tuning hookups though :)

[Def]

I think they made sense back 10+ years ago when they were the hot thing, but today I don't think they make much sense.

[e1_griego]

I dunno, for $400 it seems work pretty well.

I picked up the OLED one on here for $650 shipped with datalogit, and sold my $400 one for $650.

Pretty darn cheap for what it does, and commander is handy.

[WorkInProgressK]

Its much cheaper for a daughterboard+soldering+fuel tune.

Shameless linking to my friends @ plms who sold me cable/board+ Nistune+program over the years.
PLMS website (http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/daughterboards.shtml)

[Def]

I dunno, for $400 it seems work pretty well.

I picked up the OLED one on here for $650 shipped with datalogit, and sold my $400 one for $650.

Pretty darn cheap for what it does, and commander is handy.

I'd say that's a bit below the market price for them. I see plain jane PFCs, sometimes even without commanders going for $600+ all day long on Zilvia.

[e1_griego]

Yeah, I got dealz, for sure.

FMV @ $750 is dumb haha. That's almost AEM price.

[speed_demon]

Its much cheaper for a daughterboard+soldering+fuel tune.

Shameless linking to my friends @ plms who sold me cable/board+ Nistune+program over the years.
PLMS website (http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/daughterboards.shtml)I am interested in this, as it certainly looks viable to me. At $500 with the $100 cable it seems a bit costly for a solder-it-yourself daughterboard though.

I am also curious to know what you guys think about running E85 fuel. The great thing about WI is that I have E85 readily available at nearly every fuel station, and even with reduced FE you end up saving 5-10% on fuel costs.

I have done some research and know the main benefits, and the added fueling necessary.

Assuming you need 33% larger injectors to run E85, and that 500cc injectors are adequate for a basic T28 at 15PSI of boost, then would I need 660cc injectors? The closest I see available are 720cc's.

[Tower240sx]

Yes, about 666cc's I would go with the 720's for a bit of headroom, also the cooling effect will help to negate the heatpump and give you some more comfortable tuning room.

I am running 1000cc's in My VE so that i can get 400WHP on E85

[Def]

I needed 25% more fuel from E10 to E85. The maths agrees with me too (that's how I used 25% as my starting point). Maybe pure gas to E85 is around 33% (sounds a bit high), but it's REALLY hard to get pure gas anywhere around a city these days.

Go with 720/740 cc sidefeeds at a minimum on E85. If you actually know you want to run E85 I'd even look at 850cc sidefeeds or actually step up to 1000 cc top feeds.

I was going static on my 740's with E85 running a GT2876R with HKS 264 Step 1's.

[speed_demon]

I've been running clear 91 lately, which we have at the shell station I work at seasonally. According to Shell Corporate there is no ethanol in it whatsoever. Knowing that I'm presently untuned for the T28 and likely somewhat lean at WOT, I figured that this might help some as I near the end of the stock injector flow. 'twas a logical assumption.

I have no intentions for more than 300rwhp with the SR as I'll be going LS down the road when I can handle more power. The SR's gotta last me the next few years without going boom though, and I'll be sticking with the S14 T28 for boost. I will keep my eyes open for a set of the 720's then.

Thanks for the confirmation on the injectors guys. Now do you know of anyone selling a used/ lower cost Nistune cable or LC-1 WB02? :D

[speed_demon]

I now have a Nistuned ECU setup for a Z32 MAF, T28, and STI injectors here, courtesy of turtl631. :D

Now that I have the wiring for the new MAF sensor done I have run into a small problem. I still have the stock 2'' MAF to turbo intake pipe, and this isn't going to work with the larger diameter Z32 unit.

So my question is, what are you guys typically using for the MAF sensor to turbo intake pipe?

[Def]

I took a piece of 2.5" mandrel bent piping and cut it into two 90 degree sections and used a coupler between them. You can make the same shape as the stock intake boot with that. Then a 3" to 2.5" coupler off the MAF.

[speed_demon]

Very creative, I like that.

Do you think something like this would work? http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP250-U-24&Category_Code=PIP250

http://www.cxracing.com/product/cxracing37/PIP250-U-24/images/1.jpg

http://www.cxracing.com/product/cxracing37/PIP250-U-24/images/6.jpg

[Def]

Yep, that's exactly the type tubing I used. Just cut the 180 deg part into ~90 degree sections and mock it up. I JB welded a bung for the valvecover breather on there as well. Worked fine, and definitely made power getting rid of the stock nasty boot with all the junk inside of it.

[speed_demon]

I have the car up and running with the new Nistuned ECU, STI injectors, and Z32 MAF. I am having some odd problems (Fuel cut?) trying to run 15PSI with my T28 and I'm wondering if anyone has run into anything similar?

Timing is good, I verified it as set to 15 degrees BTDC. Plugs are new NGK BKR7E's gapped at .025.

Fuel pump is a new Walbro 255 with new rubber fuel lines and new filter.

I will be doing a boost leak test as soon as I get the parts assembled as I'd like to rule this out. Boost held great with no problems when I was still running the stock ecu, injectors, and MAF.

The engine runs nice and smooth up until it goes beyond ~8PSI of boost. After that it bucks and feels like I'm hitting a rev limiter. This happens in any gear and at any speed once I go beyond 8 PSI.

Watch the video, at :12 is exactly what my SR is doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vAYf9J-4OU

He mentioned in the comments that it was the coil packs. I know my car ran great before the new parts, so I doubt the CP's are the problem.

Anyone think it could be a bad MAF sensor causing this?

[Def]

It could very well be spark blow out. You running copper plugs? They are extremely marginal on stock COP ignition over about 14 psi. Iridium plugs are far far better with stock ignition.

What's the max load limit on your maps once you get in boost? You sure you aren't hitting that?

[CodyAce]

I ran coppers at 20 psi without issue, but gapped way low .022.

I'd vote on a boost leak, or something failing under those conditions. You do have the groudns all hooked up and everything else kosher right? A faulty MAF usually runs like **** at all times, not just over XX bost.

[Def]

I ran coppers at 20 psi without issue, but gapped way low .022.

I'd vote on a boost leak, or something failing under those conditions. You do have the groudns all hooked up and everything else kosher right? A faulty MAF usually runs like **** at all times, not just over XX bost.

Didn't you have spark blow out recently on coppers? :D



Blowing out the spark definitely feels like repeatedly hitting a wall if it's on most cylinders.


Boost leak will make the AFR go super rich as soon as you get into boost - so what are the AFRs OP?

[speed_demon]

Blowing out the spark definitely feels like repeatedly hitting a wall if it's on most cylinders.


Boost leak will make the AFR go super rich as soon as you get into boost - so what are the AFRs OP?I would love to do some testing and find out but the car is currently under the knife. I found I have a slow battery drain somewhere and it killed my battery so I just started the tear down early.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/speed_demon1/240SX%20picture%20log/IMG_0235.jpg

The suggestions and thoughts on the matter are awesome. They give me something to keep an eye out for once I do get the car back together.

For the plugs I did some searching around and I found plenty of people that recommended the NGK coppers in one heat range cooler for my power level (BKR7E).

Is there a specific plug you think I should look into?

[Def]

Use BKR7EIX.

[Tower240sx]

I have Copper 8's in my VE and it has no trouble w/ .028 gap, wrong rabbit hole.

you need to rescale your fuel and timing maps, watch in nistune as you hit 8 psi on that maf you run out of vertical scale.

[Def]

I have Copper 8's in my VE and it has no trouble w/ .028 gap, wrong rabbit hole.

you need to rescale your fuel and timing maps, watch in nistune as you hit 8 psi on that maf you run out of vertical scale.

S15 coils that are fairly new are a bit different than an old 20+ year set of redtop coils. Just saying, I had chronic spark problems above 15 psi and 5000 RPM or so with BKR7E's. I switched to BKR7EIX's and no problems at all with the exact same ignition components up to 22 psi and 7500 RPM.

I'm not sure why people are so stuck on 1960's spark plug technology. What do you guys think iridium plugs lack? Besides lasting 10x as long as a copper plug and jump the gap with less voltage of course?


They're like $6-7/plug - stupid not to run them with the benefits they provide.

[Tower240sx]

1. Availability

2. if $2 spark plugs work why buy $8 plugs

3. I have never ever had a problem that i traced back to a lack of money spent on spark plugs

[speed_demon]

you need to rescale your fuel and timing maps, watch in nistune as you hit 8 psi on that maf you run out of vertical scale.This is the ECU I bought from turtl631.

Quote from Def in the FS thread..


This same tune was run on my car. It made 300 rwhp on a T28/GT2560R running 15 psi towards redline. Nevermind the curves being off, that's a picture of the printout and the curves kept printing out about 20-30 below where they were on the screen.

It's certainly possible that there is an issue with the tune, though I don't have a cable or the software license to adjust anything.

[Def]

Ok, that's where you got the ECU? It's a PLMS daughterboard btw, not Nistune.

The tune is fine, it's got thousands of track miles on it, and was run up to the limit of the 525 cc injectors.

[Tower240sx]

Def Tuned???

he tunes cars to burn to the ground why do you think Turtl666 had it for sale

[speed_demon]

Ok, that's where you got the ECU? It's a PLMS daughterboard btw, not Nistune.

The tune is fine, it's got thousands of track miles on it, and was run up to the limit of the 525 cc injectors.Good to know. I thought the PLMS board was tuned via Nistune, my mistake.

So was this your ECU at one point? I was assuming that the tune was just copied because it worked well for a common setup.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/speed_demon1/240SX%20picture%20log/Blacktop%20SR/IMG_0138.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/speed_demon1/240SX%20picture%20log/Blacktop%20SR/IMG_0134.jpg

[Def]

I tuned it for turtl631. It was copied off my personal car that ran that setup for a couple of years and I dyno tuned.

This board predates Nistune. The chips are programmed with an EEPROM burner.

[Def]

1. Availability

2. if $2 spark plugs work why buy $8 plugs

3. I have never ever had a problem that i traced back to a lack of money spent on spark plugs

I'm telling you, it takes way less voltage to jump the gap with iridium plugs, and they last WAY longer.


Who cares about availability when a set of iridiums looks 100% perfect after 10k track miles?


Iridiums are a better solution in every way - PERIOD. Their higher cost is more than covered over their longer life, and they perform better throughout their life.

[speed_demon]

I pulled the copper NGK's and replaced them with the iridium plugs Def mentioned.

I made a quick test run at 8PSI and the car runs beautifully - I upped the boost to 15PSI and I have some mild hesitation past 12PSI this time, though it's nowhere near as severe as what I had before.

The problem is definitely ignition related, and I verified that the ignition timing is set to 15 degrees BTDC, so It's likely the coil packs or the wiring to them. The ground on the head checks out good, so I will do some more digging and see if I find any issues.

[Def]

Check to make sure the ground on the chassis behind the head is still there. It's a flat braided wire on a clip there.

[CodyAce]

While the positives are obvious, something in the back of my mind tells me that copper is the 'failsafe' as it will melt and save a jug before a iridium will.

[Def]

While the positives are obvious, something in the back of my mind tells me that copper is the 'failsafe' as it will melt and save a jug before a iridium will.

The electrode and ground strap are the same as a normal plug, it just has a small nubbin' of iridium on both for long term wear and higher temperature resistance right where the spark is gapping.

Iridium is super expensive stuff, so they only use a tiny tiny bit for that $4 extra you pay over a copper plug.

[speed_demon]

Def, would you recommend that I close the gap on these iridium plugs from the initial .030 to around .025? I have heard that some iridiums don't take well to regapping.