Budget Ka-t?

[a_ahmed]

So... since I am getting a rebuilt KA going in (not done by me, I'm just getting a stock rebuilt lower millage engine/tranny that is not pooped but fresh). I thought it would be neat to do a quick kat too...

Now I know the cheap, fast reliable formula... you can't get it all... but I wonder what could I get :confused: On a budget... something that would not blow up on me on the track and make me car-less. I have beyond exhausted my budget this year.

I just plan to get a replacement radiator (thinking about griffins $$$) I'm thinking of getting that aluminum overflow tank as the plastic **** tends to crack (I replaced my broken/cracked one already though) and maybe fab a radiator cover/thing to lower temps, and maybe mbc heat shield but thats as crazy as ill get anymore... I've spent waaaay too much this spring/summer already... just waiting for everything to get shipped... and still need to get Def's yet to be finished upright sphericals....

Next year I hope to do an LS v8 swap... in the meantime I need more power, I'm bored of the ****ty 100-130whp that a KA can get.

Any suggestions? Cheap manifold that won't crack? IC/piping that won't leak or be a heat gatherer not cooler? Turbo t25? SR injectors?

Shoot some ideas here... I reckon I can get 200-250whp for sure.... and I reckon I should run 91 not 89 or something, gas prices going up though haha.. I always ran 89, only recently started running 87 again (as i dont intend to keep this engine thats inside now anyways). Only thing I noticed was I get about 60km+~ more on a gas tank with 89 but the timing is whatevered on this car, I guessed it kind of haha...

So shoot... :)

[a_ahmed]

I just posted this also on ka-t forums

I saw some 5 and 6 psi runs on ka-t s13s/s14s and i think that should be plenty to keep me busy.

I once budgeted a 400whp responsive or 600whp drag build (didnt do it though decided LS1 would be more affordable), but now the irony is, I am wondering what's the cheapest as opposed to hardcorest to build a 6psi ka-t.

I invested a **** load in some new goodies for my s13 this summer... hoping the car to be ready by june for the track... but, then thought to myself wtf... 100-130whp is getting on my nerves, I need some power haha... so shoot http://www.ka-t.org/forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Someone help me out here http://www.ka-t.org/forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I'm guessing things like SR injectors, t25 i dont know.. something...

I saw a guy running 5psi and 6psi on a t3... it seemed like alot of fun

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1993-Nissan-240SX-KA-T-w-5-PSI-on-T3T4---in-car_29186.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1993-KA-T-T3T4-240sx---running-6-PSI-and-testing_102212.htm

Too bad I dont know exactly what he has running but that should be plenty in my stripped out s13 hehe.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Ka-t-6psi-Test-runs_77003.htm

[a_ahmed]

Okay after some searching I found that the guy is called DarkForceJackal

http://www.son240sx.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33284

Anyone know him?

Turbo stuff:
-- T3/T4 Hybrid Garrett Turbo (360 degree thrust bearing, dual journal bearings, GT series wheel, .60 AR)
-- Walbro 255 LPH Fuel Pump
-- Vortec 8:1 FMU & 300ZX Fuel Filter - keeps it nice & rich in boost (up to about 6 PSI)
-- Stainless IAP Oil Lines
-- Front Mount IAP Intercooler (Core measures 27" wide X 6" tall X 3" deep, overall dimensions - 33" wide X 6" tall X 3" deep)
-- 2" Black Intercooler Piping
-- Greddy Type RS Blow Off Valve w/ recirculation fitting & custom plumbing
-- Tial 38mm Wastegate, custom recirc'd into downpipe
-- IAP Equal Length Manifold
-- IAP & Megan Racing Downpipe

Other Stuff:
-- Custom EGR Recirculation
-- 11 lb. Clutchmasters Lightened Flywheel
-- ACT Stage 1 Clutch - never slipped!
-- 3-inch high flow cat, 2.5" custom catback w/ large resonator, OBX dual-tip muffler - exhaust is rather quiet, deep, smooth
-- Magnecor plug wires, NGK plugs, AEM dry-flow air filter - turbo spool sounds amazing!

Bonus:
-- Car always boosts perfectly, good pull in 5th gear even, has Stewart Warner boost gauge
-- Comes with AEM Uego to confirm AFR's, and can be used for upping the boost or tuning etc (with added fuel system of course)
-- Always run synthetic oil and Sunoco 94
-- Always warmed up & down the turbo carefully
-- 240km/h speedometer

Quirks:
-- Occasional idle imperfections: IACV may need periodic cleaning (due to recirc'd EGR, or EGR can be closed off if desired), can lead to idle-dipping or even stalling when clutching (ie. might need a throttle tap) - however this is usually not an issue at all, and idle at a stop is typically rock solid - as well, this may be possible to tune out with S-AFC etc....
-- Downpipe rattles, harmless but you can hear it revving etc.
-- Occasional mild throttle stick

What good and bad do you see in this setup? Suggestions?

[e1_griego]

I see a big turbo with ****ty management (fmu). Ka-t and small budget are (to me) like oil and water. Either do it right or don't do it at all. I know there's plenty of guys making big numbers on stock bottom ends--the current record is 526whp on stock internals--but the margin for error with stock pistons is low. The pistons are the weak point in a ka, so if you're actually going to ka-t, I would at least throw a set of pistons in.

The biggest thing about ka-t is good management; safc does not constitute good management because it only controls fuel, not timing. There's a few tune-by-mail companies (enthalpy, emance, jwt) or you can pick up a Calum realtime board and knock yourself out. The other option is nistune though I'm not sure if they have a ka24de ecu out.

Go to ka-t.org and read the 'ka-t for dummies" threads that our very own Veilside180sx created. It's a quick introduction to ka-t and will at least get you an idea of what you need to spend.

For a low budget setup, a cheap ebay manifold, an sr t25/t28 and associated exhaust pieces, either fmic or s13 smic and some elbow work can net you ~200whp pretty easily. Just don't forget tuning.

Alex

[AceInHole]

I did it for about $1000, which got me to 220rwhp and lasted about a year before I started building towards more boost. I'd imagine you could do it much cheaper now, with SR 370cc injectors, T25's, and bolt-on manifolds/ piping available. Back in the day we had to actually make stuff from scratch....

[a_ahmed]

1000$... thats not too bad... how much r u pulling now? Whats ur current setup like?

If you could build me a list of crap to get i might be tempted to actually do it now as im swapping in the new motor... after seeing that guy's 6psi pull (t3/t4 though...) it really made me want it... argh... 100-130whp can only satisfy for so long no matter what suspension and great brakes lol... I'm sick of stock power.. been two years of stock power...

[a_ahmed]

What do you think about this haha:

T2 bottom mount manifold(ebay) ,sr injectors, OBX Fuel management unit, intercooler (used), blow off valve.

For 360$

No idea on condition lol... but here are pix:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1963/p4240138ey2.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1472/p4240139el0.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4599/p4240140dg1.jpg

[ecugrad]

DIY turbo setups are common in the Miata world and most guys say the OBX/Megan/etc manifolds will break welds eventually.

Some buy the manifolds and reweld but all eventually have to do SOMETHING.

[turtl631]

For a temporary simple setup, I'd just do ebay tubular mani, T25, SR injectors, N60 MAF, tuned ECU, and some ebay SR IC kit and downpipe. DSM BOV, make your own oil lines or buy from JGS...should be cheap and easily do like 220 whp. Oh, and a clutch, just some basic organic disc should be fine as long as you're not launching on it violently and its at least one step more aggressive than stock.

[Epstein]

I see a big turbo with ****ty management (fmu).

The biggest thing about ka-t is good management;

Alex


I'm glad that someone else said it. I hate to harp on it, but management is the key to making reliable power on a KA. Just make sure the tuner knows what they're doing.

That 5xx record KA on stock internals runs an Enthalpy ECU :D

[Epstein]

For a temporary simple setup, I'd just do ebay tubular mani, T25, SR injectors, N60 MAF, tuned ECU, and some ebay SR IC kit and downpipe. DSM BOV, make your own oil lines or buy from JGS...should be cheap and easily do like 220 whp. Oh, and a clutch, just some basic organic disc should be fine as long as you're not launching on it violently and its at least one step more aggressive than stock.

As far as an actual parts recommendation, this is exactly the route I'd suggest. If you have the extra money, go with S15 480cc injectors and a T28.

[WishIHadaSilvia]

Obviously this set up isn't cheap, but it was very reliable. My old car supposedly had 60,XXX original miles on it. I ran a FMax stage 2 kit (~5500 bucks, it came on the car, you can definitely build it for cheaper). It consisted of:

T3/T4 ball bearing turbo (don't remember the AR)
HKS Waste Gate (6psi spring)
Unknown Log Manifold
2.5 inch dp to 3 inch exhaust
550CC injectors
Nismo FPR
300ZX TT Fuel Pump
JWT ECU
Cobra MAF


There were a couple of other things but I can't remember it. I daily drove and tracked the car for 1.5 years...it actually only stopped working because the guy I sold it to messed up the wiring harness.

It made 220/220 to the wheels.

[a_ahmed]

Very cool, how much psi did you run.

I think JGS log manifold is what it might have been i think its a good idea to get, prices went up since last 3 years though haha... (as if everything doesnt now adays.. stupid jdm inlation)

I think a t3/t4 would be nice... I like how everyone is contributing in this thread... can help others too, not just me :cool:

[turtl631]

Eh, why run a T3/T4 for a low power setup? The manifolds cost more, they're all topmount so then you have to worry about baking your brake MC, you have to deal with an external WG, plus all the SR IC and DP stuff doesn't just bolt up anymore. Plus, you're using a 400whp capable turbo for maybe 250 whp. Spool could be far better at that power level with a smaller turbo.

[Your Mom]

i have this for sale
http://www.northwestnissans.com/board/showthread.php?t=74111

[a_ahmed]

check your pm

[ramm]

get a log style manifold...theres no need for an Equal length.

Check out sngperformance.com theres some Treadstone manifolds on there for a decent price. LMK if you have any questions- pm me please.

[WishIHadaSilvia]

Eh, why run a T3/T4 for a low power setup? The manifolds cost more, they're all topmount so then you have to worry about baking your brake MC, you have to deal with an external WG, plus all the SR IC and DP stuff doesn't just bolt up anymore. Plus, you're using a 400whp capable turbo for maybe 250 whp. Spool could be far better at that power level with a smaller turbo.

I absolutely agree. I only had the set up I had because I bought the car with it on it. Here are some pictures:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c51/95KA-Turbo/Engine-1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c51/95KA-Turbo/Engine-2.jpg

I have no idea what manifold it is, I had several people ask me about it while I had it.

I hit full boost (6psi) at 2500rpms. It was an awesome, small AR, ball bearing T3/T4. The great thing about a T3/T4 set up is the noise it makes, HAHA.

I would definitely say buying a megan manifold + a GT2571R (S14/S15 turbo) or GT2871R would be ideal for making realllly fast boost and making ~230-270whp. I wouldn't attempt to make over 250whp on a stock engine. If you did go with a JWT or Enthalpy ECU they're tuned VERY conservatively so you'll be pig rich and not make as much power but they're usually very safe. I dyno tuned on top of the JWT ECU on my old car with a SAFC, it made a noticeable difference - I only gained like 5 whp but the powerband was completely different.

[a_ahmed]

I am horny for ka-t power... i might just bite the bullet again and go for a t3/t4 kit :-/

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=263602#263602

I am nuts...

JGS turbo kit what do you think of it....

http://jgsturbo.com/kaepkg.jpg

Includes- AGP/Turbonetics .50 trim T3/T04E turbo (.63 A/R) (http://jgsturbo.com/ka24et.html#anchor377192) KA24E turbo manifold (http://jgsturbo.com/ka24et.html#anchor354204) JGS400 Wastegate (http://jgsturbo.com/jgs40wg.html) KA24E downpipe and wg pipe set (http://jgsturbo.com/ka24et.html#anchor619266) T3 mounting studs (http://jgsturbo.com/ka24et.html#anchor389741) JGS KA24E oil feed & return line kit (http://jgsturbo.com/ka24et.html#anchor398149) Turbo cement (http://jgsturbo.com/trboil.html#anchor898209) EGR Plug Exhaust wrap for downpipe

$1702.49...

Overpriced? And thats not a complete kit... They say 12-15psi (275whp-300whp) on stock motor but to think about enthlapy or some other tune option

While im at it, why not a 300whp setup... but a low end power oriented build.. sounds good?


What I dont want is like 2000rpm of 300whp and then everything below like 100whp lol
... thats one of the reasons i wanted an ls1... after riding in an sr20det with 250whp (no real power until 4000rpm gay and inexistant torque just lots of noise...)


or maybe it would be cheaper to get these parts individually i dont know...

At PDM-racing I can get a t3/t4 hybrid 57 trim with ar choices of .48, .63, .82 for 620$+shipping brand new...

So much variety and choices :-/ I am confused... on the one hand... I am like... I want just a lil more power until I go ls1.. but then looking at pricing difference just a lil more for significantly more power.. im tempted and confused :-/ I am confused... on one hand I want more on other hand im like why spend more money when next year i wana do an lsv8 swap... hmm temptation lol...

Otherwise... what to get for a nice 250whp setup... reliable... or... t3/t4... or.... :-/

I don't like peak power, top end only, thats gay... thats what i don't want and why i want an ls1... I just dont like loud noisy but no power... until the car is screaming at the top end
... but... :-/ I am so confused man...

I just don't want a stock ka... God I hate the stock KA (other than it's reliability).

With an ebay kit + t25/t28 can i hit 250whp with mad spool times and low end grunt?... reliable for track...? I am ranting now editing my posts... :-/ Since I am conused

[a_ahmed]

okay i was thinking of it... forget it... help me build a t25/t28 cheap setup pushing 250whp max... maximum response. I'll go ls1/ls2 next year as is my plan... I am just sick and tired of 100-130whp out of a stock ka....

Turbo stuff gets complicated, expensive and unreliable very quickly... and im a sucker for spending stuff quickly... it can get expensive and i get greedy for power fast lol...

So t25/t28... help me out... let me put something for 200-250whp max... I'll stick with 2.5" exhaust.. greg from brm told me he is running a 400whp kat with a 2.5" system...

[turtl631]

We already told you what to get.

Have you ever driven on a track? You really don't need power under 4k. I could see wanting to have low end on a street car, especially since 1 and 2 are so widely spaced, but I'd be fine with 3-4-5 on track with a 4500-8000 powerband (30R).

[a_ahmed]

yea but a kat does not rev to 8000 :P

No I agree with you, on a track you would care more about the high revs, but im building a car for myself overall, not track only... i dont need a super loud car that only starts getting power 4000rpm+ what i can handle in my car honestly varies... for instance lack of power before 4000rpm to me sucks... but at the same time having a stripped out car more nosiy does not bother me...

Anyways so...

So, log manifold or ebay manifold...

What gaskets should I get? I heard the ones that come suplied are the weak point that should be replaced...

Ebay manifold + t25/t28 will work with the stock sr downpipe/etc??? I am not certain of that...

SR injectors...

How about IC? SR stock IC piping... ?

For fuel... ppl mention safc... ive never used one.. ive been all NA for years... ive never built a turbo car... only NA cars...

To make the stock computer understand there is a turbo, more air/fuel... what to do... Never really built any motors...

Im worried about getting used t25/t28... from an s13/s14/s15 SR... if it will be in good shape, i dont need a brand new gt28rs or whatever...

Also about wastegate, blow off valve, anything necessitated and how...

[turtl631]

Well, the 4500-8000 comment was regarding a 30R on a SR. On a KA, it would probably be more like 4000-7500. Ivan revved his car to 8k though...not sure what's been going on with that lately.

Try KA-T.org for info on budget T25 type setups, seems like everyone there is all about spending the least amount of money possible on boost.

[Epstein]

A_ahmed needs to really ride/drive some KA-T's or even some SR's. "no power under xxxx RPM's"? What the hell are you talking about. It's not an on/off switch. You're going to make 100+ftlbs down low, just like you do now. My 3071 makes positive boost at just about any RPM. 3000 at part throttle makes 5-6psi easy.

Now lets get down to feel... seat of the pants. What you feel in your butt/back is what the torque curve looks like. My setup is virtually flat all the way across, which means that the same force is acting on the car at 4k as at 7.5k. Compare that to a T25 KA that's going to hit peak torque around 3k and linearly decrease until redline. That means your car will have the highest acceleration at 3k, and the acceleration will decrease as the revs go up. You can see this in dyno vids where it rips past 4k and is barely gaining near redline. This looks cool with a constant 230hp between 4k and 6.5k if you don't know what you're looking at.

Don't fall into the trap of "why run a 400hp turbo at 250hp" arguments. My car is fantastic as a daily at 8psi where it only makes 300whp, versus the violent high boost at 420whp. A bigger turbo at lower boost will stress the motor less.

In order of increasing power...
Setup 1: T28 using stock/SR piping, 480cc or better injectors, N60 or N62 mafs.

Setup 2: 50-trim .63ar on a cast topmount, 550cc or better injectors, N62 mafs.

Setup 3: 3071r or 3076r, 740cc or better injectors, N62 mafs.

All setups on ROM tune or standalone, with S13 cams or better recommended. These are all great setups.

[a_ahmed]

i've driven a couple of SRs, and I didn't like them... thats why i've always wanted an ls1 or a kat... well the two SRs I drove in where low power, one was 200whp (light bolt on ****) and the other was a slightly tuned upped boost 250whp SR (guy got it dyno'd and tuned)... i didn't like them reason being... they were really loud and did not feel fast at all... and it only felt like it kicked in for me at around 4000rpm... there is just no way i want an sr in my car. Loud as ****, and no ass feel until 4000rpm...

The thing with stock KAs when I ride them I can feel that around 3000rpm it has the most torque and this has to do with cams no? I've seen stock KA dynos and this seems to be the case at around 5000rpm falling off... a cam could change this perhaps? Is this why then a small turbo would fall off as well. I am not too knowledgeable of turbos... all i think of is slap one on + power result.

Like I said I want to build an overall car... although obviously my goal is to have fun at the track :)... no real joy of messing on the street anymore with popos wanting to take one's car away ever so easily plus its kind of stupid...

I've driven a bunch of cool cars over the years, so I have kind of high expectations but I know high expectations mean $$$... I'm just a little confused as i dont want the kat to be my final thing in the car still.. yet I am sick of the stock KA in which mom's grocery cars can over power now a days. Fastest cars I've driven were lotus 7 replica, 03 viper, moded mr2 mk2 and 2001 m5 with some light mods, that **** was fun...

I would like a 250whp setup basically to keep me busy until next year...

If I could get some used parts I think I could build something to last me next year...

I got a replacement rad, so that should keep things cool..

I figured a t25 setup should cost about 1k total... but if power falls off at 5k rpm that kind of would suck... thats what the guys told me on kat...

The cheapest t3 i saw was 620$+ shipping new..

I know I'm sounding like a retard because a. I dont know much about turbos, b. I am expecting to keep this low budget c. Wanting 250whp yet that does not seem to be attainable with a t25 which would be the 1k budget d. complaining about lack of low end (based on dyno at least not butt dyno , well at least SR butt dyno proved ****ty to me) haha E. I'm kind of confused as im doing this last second and havent given it much thought as I ultimately want to swap in an ls1...

How much can I get the cheapest not high power but fastest boosting to 250whp t3/t04?
What could I possibly get one off of if used? Where could I look?

How much could I expect with a t28? If I could even find one... looking around forums I see mostly used T25s being sold... and im scared to buy anything off of ebay...

How about this thing?

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33900

I honestly appologize for sounding like a retard newb :( .... turbos are the one thing i know least about... as its something ive not poked a stick at... the only turbos i know of was when my dad used to have his car and he slapped a bigger mitsubishi turbo on his old volvo 360glt years and years ago when I was only 7-8 years old before soon blowing the motor haha...

I would like 250whp to redline basically...

[a_ahmed]

u knw what **** it... ill be patient until next year... not gona make myself look more stupid either... im not gona make this happen on the cheap.

Like I said to myself... turbos get complicated, expensive and unreliable too fast... and theres no replacement for displacement... I'll just wait until next year.. don't wana waste money by stupidly trying to do something in a rush...

It's a big deception to think one can do something like this on the cheap lol... and when you get trapped and start blowing things or getting greedy for power it just starts costing more and more by the end i rather just have done my planned LS swap for next year, have factory reliable 350whp and a flat hp and torque curve, great gas mileage in 6th (35mpg on highway cruising) and power from low to high rpm range... costs an arm and a leg but so would a turbo in the end :-/ I am just not patient enough with the stock KA ****...

A friend of mine with a ka-t told me to just stick to my ls swap plan... his **** blew ever so many times, two engine replaced so far... two turbos too... I asked him to post on here but he didn't knowing its a pretty pointless adventure with my expectations :-/

I was looking at a t3/t04 kit and itll cost me about 3000$ maybe a lil over if i take into account misc things. JGS' kit seems good, 1700$, but then gotta get gauges, computer or safc, something similar, injectors, fuel pump (well thats a given), fpr, intercooler, piping, o2 wideband, i dont know im sure something else + customs/shipping, itll come to about 3000$ easily... I rather spend another 3000$-4000$ and get an LS swapped... for what its worth and put my finger in the ear and not worry too much about the rest... live with 350whp.. some mods done to that and itll rev to 7k, be almost 400whp and thats with a flat and consistent powerband from down low...... If I could afford a corvette I'd buy one haha... but not gonna happen...

Last time I budget a 400whp kat build (engine rebuilt etc...) it would have come to about 8000$ with all things considered... (capable of 600whp with a different turbo choice) I spent quite a bit of time reading into ther people's setups including what ams performance was saying, at the end of the day i rather go with an LS swap and avoid the headaches, spend a lil more get less power but enjoy more in the long run...

I just ****en hate stock KAs, aside from their rock solid reliability...

/end rant

me fail

[Def]

What's with the obsession on low end torque?

I don't know about you, but I'm not seeing how hard my car can lug around at 2k RPM on a track.

A T25 SR also makes full boost just past 3k RPM, so I'm not sure how you say it didn't "kick in" until 4k RPM. My stock SR dyno had it making more torque than a bolt-on KA will ever make by about 2.5k RPM.


I'm not sure why the Nissan community thinks it's easy to make "cheap power" on an LSx engine either - things that make power are EXPENSIVE for that engine, and you end up buying double(8 vs. 4) of things when stepping up the power potential. They're cool engines, I guess I'm just not as enamored with them as the rest of the Nissan guys.

[turtl631]

F'real.

Cam, heads, springs, pushrods, intake mani, and big TB are not cheap parts. That's like $3k plus right there, before tuning, running a stock fuel system and bottom end. Doing all the work to swap a LS1 and then having a 320 whp setup seems lame. If I'm gonna spend all that time and money putting a domestic V8 in a Nissan, it better be a 450+whp monster. And it better not sound like a truck with a bass boat in tow.

[a_ahmed]

Well everyone has their opinions. I think the money spent in an ls1 is worth it in the long run vs an SR or KA... Don't forge the LS1/2 are not even turbo. I don't really care about domestic/import/jdm/whatever. If it was a heavy motor I would not even consider it, but it's not, that's the cool thing about it... And the t56 is a far superior transmission as well...

Another unnecessary long-term expense, mounting a Z32 transmission to an SR or KA... when you start making the big powaaa

I'll just be patient... I gave it a second thought just doing cheap t25 but after some further reading I was like nah... I rather save that 1-2k towards the ls swap next year...

I know it's not a crowd pleaser, as its 'domestic', but who cares, a car is a car. I already made this opinion long ago after much thought... I just thought to do a cheap ka-t would be a good idea as I hate the stock KA... but, in the end nah...

It could be done for like 1k-ish for a t25 cheap setup... then i'd be tempted into the t3/t04 setup but thinking about it all long-term reliability forget it... and long-term cost... it will cost more than one would budget for gauranteed. So I'll control my urges lol

I mean everything has its pros and cons... I would definitely get a ka-t over an SR.. thats my opinion too... but I would go LS1/2 over a ka-t... it costs a bit more, but long term I see it as a better investment...

And sorry but a 400whp SR vs a 400whp LS1/2, is a biiig difference... who cares if the SR or even KA has a peak 400whp... think about the amazing powerband with an LS1/2... It's like the supras that make 800whp their powerband is like a giant spike... pretty useless except if on track drag racing...

I am building myself an overall car... I like low end torque, I think it's a kick ass feeling. I am not a fan of revving to the sky, we don't have formula 1 cars :-/

And threads about KA vs SR vs RB vs LSx V8 are a nightmare, I rather not get into that, it comes to opinions and personal preferences heh. Uh oh, I think we got ourselves our very own first nissanroadracing.com KA vs SR vs RB vs LSx V8 thread :P I would do an RB swap or JZ swap if it weren't for the extra heavy weight... And by the way KAs and SRs sound like trucks :P A v8 is just two trucks in one :P

[Def]

A 400rwhp SR setup will push an S13 to the 10s with a good launch since you'll be trapping about 120 mph give or take, I don't know how much faster you think an LS1 making 400rwhp will go, but I doubt it's that much since you're lugging around an extra 80-100 lbs in the transmission.

Don't take offense to this, but I think you've been looking at dynos online too much and making guesses as to what it feels like to drive the car. A 400rwhp SR isn't an on/off switch whatsoever, in fact, it's easier to get traction with a momentary build-up of boost vs. a really torquey NA engine IMO.

It's cool if you like LSx engines and that's your plan, but I'd be a little more reserved in making such sweeping judgments about how other engines feel until you've actually driven one. A 250 rwhp SR setup is hardly anything like a 400 rwhp SR setup, especially above 5k RPM.

I've driven an LS1 Camaro making about 330 rwhp I think, and I wasn't all that impressed. The torque is constantly rising or dropping off, and while it's smooth, it just isn't nearly as linear of a pull as my GT2876R car gives now. I think they also sound like UPS trucks...

[a_ahmed]

lol@ups trucks :D

Well, I'll give it a try and see how it goes :-/

But just so you know.. a camaro is 3300lbs if im not mistaken so naturally that 330whp feel as fast as another such car...

A stock unmodified ls1 from what I gather from other LSx v8 swapped s13/s14 guys puts you in high 11s, low 12s... 100% factory reliability... I don't mind that :-/

The fastest cars I've drivne have been a lotus 7 replica and 2003 viper. Two completely different animals... One with a small 1.8liter turbo... not alot of power but super light... and another with a 8liter v10 haha but 3400lbs... Both fun, just different.. I take it that's how it is between all this SR vs KA vs RB vs LS V8... just different... and it's just my personal preference, I like low end torque... it's street fun... that's why I would have prefered the kat...

No doubt.. a 250whp SR will be alot different than a 400whp SR... and I'm sure it'll rip like a monster... but we'll see... if I get impatient I'll just drop an SR in the car... they're so cheap now a days, my only worry being that they are no longer '30k from japan' haha... I like the fact it's a light motor...

And I do have my stand against LSx non flatplane V8 sound... rumbly bumly typical american v8 sound... The LS6 and 7 sound awesome though :D

[turtl631]

Don't take offense to this, but I think you've been looking at dynos online too much and making guesses as to what it feels like to drive the car. A 400rwhp SR isn't an on/off switch whatsoever, in fact, it's easier to get traction with a momentary build-up of boost vs. a really torquey NA engine IMO.


I know what you mean. When I did that event at Roebling with my turbo KA, I noticed that the time it took for boost to build helped to smooth out my throttle application. It took a while to get used to throttling it just before I would expect to need the power, but after a while I grew to like it. The best way I could describe it is like a spring or rubberband feeling...like a brief loading up of the car before full boost was achieved.

[Def]

Yea, there's a reason it's easier to drift a large displacement NA car, because it's just that much easier to "shock" the tires loose with a sudden burst of torque vs. a smoother buildup of torque on a smaller turbo.

[ChukiDori]

So... since I am getting a rebuilt KA going in (not done by me, I'm just getting a stock rebuilt lower millage engine/tranny that is not pooped but fresh). I thought it would be neat to do a quick kat too...

Now I know the cheap, fast reliable formula... you can't get it all... but I wonder what could I get :confused: On a budget... something that would not blow up on me on the track and make me car-less. I have beyond exhausted my budget this year.

I just plan to get a replacement radiator (thinking about griffins $$$) I'm thinking of getting that aluminum overflow tank as the plastic **** tends to crack (I replaced my broken/cracked one already though) and maybe fab a radiator cover/thing to lower temps, and maybe mbc heat shield but thats as crazy as ill get anymore... I've spent waaaay too much this spring/summer already... just waiting for everything to get shipped... and still need to get Def's yet to be finished upright sphericals....

Next year I hope to do an LS v8 swap... in the meantime I need more power, I'm bored of the ****ty 100-130whp that a KA can get.

Any suggestions? Cheap manifold that won't crack? IC/piping that won't leak or be a heat gatherer not cooler? Turbo t25? SR injectors?

Shoot some ideas here... I reckon I can get 200-250whp for sure.... and I reckon I should run 91 not 89 or something, gas prices going up though haha.. I always ran 89, only recently started running 87 again (as i dont intend to keep this engine thats inside now anyways). Only thing I noticed was I get about 60km+~ more on a gas tank with 89 but the timing is whatevered on this car, I guessed it kind of haha...

So shoot... :)

Fast is relative. So when it comes to the stock power of a KA, You can always have "fast-ER, AND cheap and reliable =D.

[silverbullet]

ya know, im surprised how much LS1s are hyped in the the import world, but no one takes a look at Ford 4.9L. You can find 302s for a couple hundred bucks, opposed to LS1s that go for thousands.

[WishIHadaSilvia]

I was going to do a 1UZ swap but lack the funds for the fab work needed to mate a 5-speed transmission to it. DOHC all aluminum V8 with 6 bolt mains....was in the top 10 best motors in the world from 98-01 (pretty sure those dates are right). The best part is you can pick the motors up for 4-800 bucks!

[Def]

ya know, im surprised how much LS1s are hyped in the the import world, but no one takes a look at Ford 4.9L. You can find 302s for a couple hundred bucks, opposed to LS1s that go for thousands.

It is not cheap to make NA power on a 302, and the iron block is a bit on the heavy side even if the engine is relatively compact and you go with aluminum heads.

Getting to 325-350 rwhp on a 302 is going to cost you just as much as doing it with an SR... probably more based on the amount of custom fab work you'd do for headers etc. on the 302(if you put any value on your time).

[2Fass240us]

ya know, im surprised how much LS1s are hyped in the the import world, but no one takes a look at Ford 4.9L. You can find 302s for a couple hundred bucks, opposed to LS1s that go for thousands.
There are other GM motors that are options, some of which may even use the LS1 kit so you can upgrade later. A few people I know are looking into it, one of which because he may actually do it. :)

[a_ahmed]

Well I'm not sure about the other motors. But... from all the forum talking and some people who took weights the few things that make the LSx series appealing was that they are not dohc so the weight of the motor is centered down as opposed to top of the head... and thus lighter... and it is all aluminum... it is essentially lighter than most of the other motors... there are different applications one can look at though. If it's just drag racing well... pretty much any of them would do... a friend of mine ran a ford v8 rx7 that ran a 9second quarter mile.. it would do wheelies and such... he got out of this hobby after he crashed it during one quarter mile run... the whole chassis was twisted and that was the end of it... was a fast car though...

I wouldn't mind other options but I was just considering the weight, revability, things like that... not saying the other motors are bad :) Just most of them are iron blocks, or the ford ones are dohc, etc...

The 1UZ motor is AMAZING, but pretty damn heavy for a front ended s13 chassis... if I was building an ultima gtr, I wouldn't mind doing a twin turbo 1UZ... that would be a pretty sick sounding and going car. Go youtube and check ultima gtr with twin turbo 1uz, the guy goes like 0-340/hr in 19 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3y7qbSCB44

But then again a twin turbo ls2 would do pretty crazy too :-/

I don't know, I just think a stock powerish 350whp-400whp LS1/Ls2 would be plenty in an s13, just to make it rev to 7000rpm and rev freely reliably, resolve any oil starvation issues and that all would be more than enough with a nice flat torque curve with power available any time you need it...

I would have never considered an LSx v8 swap if it was iron block heavy, dohc (too much going on the top of the engine weight wise) etc... I mean that's my opinion, opinions can change given the facts... but I feel this is what I want to do in the long run...

[WishIHadaSilvia]

Last I checked the 1UZ was only a little more then a SR.


Here:

toyota 1UZ-FE + R154 mission 486lbs
+ W58 mission 466lbs

[Epstein]

This doesn't surprise me. 1UZ is a physically small motor. People swap these into Miatas with little or no mods.