N15 Pulsar SSS / B14 SE-R Bilsteins

[cozzmo]

Hi all,

I've got an Australian N15 Pulsar SSS which is the equivalent (chassis & drivetrain wise) to the B14 SE-R. Its got a few mods with the motor and gearbox and a few suspension bits, but its pretty much a daily now, i just like playing around with different suspension.

Just got my bilsteins and i'm wondering a couple of things.

Front, got the 3000GT inserts, probably a bit firm for this car, but like usual, i'm just going to give it a shot, see how it goes.

I have a set of Ohlins struts which had some Koni Reds in them, pulled the reds out and low and behold, the Bilstein damper (without the yellow body) slides straight in. The Linear bushings inside the Ohlins body are worn (i can feel a little play) so i'm looking to replace them, maybe even swap out the linear bushing from the Bilstein insert body if i can figure out how to pull them out without damage (which doesn't look easy...)

I tried to undo the rod from the cap at the bottom of the insert, but ended up the cap just started to turn. Are they locked in with some thread lock or are they just REALLY tight? I don't want to mess up the allen key hex so i figured i'd ask what you guys have done to pull the damper out of the insert body.

I'm going to get a pin wrench so i can hold the cap tight, but i don't really want to mess it all up.

[cozzmo]

Rears are in ... nice and smooth.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/bilsteinfinsiehd.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/stockvsbilsteinwithsprings.jpg


Received my Pin Wrench, still can't get the damper rod to unscrew from the cap in the front inserts. Must be thread locked in there.. most annoying. I don't want to mess up the allen key bit.

[djsilver]

Rears are in ... nice and smooth.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/bilsteinfinsiehd.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/stockvsbilsteinwithsprings.jpg


Received my Pin Wrench, still can't get the damper rod to unscrew from the cap in the front inserts. Must be thread locked in there.. most annoying. I don't want to mess up the allen key bit.

The rod threads have loctite on them. I had to double nut the threads and use a flat wrench and an allen wrench together to get it unscrewed. Have faith, you can do it!

When I installed the 3kgt inserts into my Buddy Club housings the insert was only supported by one of the two sliders because the Bilstein rod was longer. I had to drive in an extra bushing so the shock was supported at full droop.

Here's a source for new slider bushings; http://catalog.daemar.com/category/th-self-lubricating-bushings-lead-free-

These guys are in Canada and the US. If you can't source through them you may find another source by searching for slide/slider bushings or bearings.

[djsilver]

http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/ae307/djsilverjohnson/Bilsteins%20on%20S13/?start=all

One of the pictures is a drawing with measurements of the 3kgt struts/inserts

[cozzmo]

Thanks for the links.

Interestingly, my AST struts use their (or similar product) THX series slider bushings.

Unfortunately my 3KGT seems to have an M10x1.0 not 1.25 thread on it so i have to head to the local shop to get some nuts, but i'll give that way a go. Cheers.

My plans are to remove the damper and put it into a set of Ohlins inverted Strut bodies which just happen to be the right ID. I got the Ohlins cheap, but they had blown up at some point (given the shock oil that came out when i removed the reds) and the previous owner had thrown a set of Koni Reds into them, which fit very poorly (no support at all!) and the bushings are worn so that's why i would need to replace them first. I haven't had a chance to measure the internal diameter of the Ohlins yet to know what size bushing exactly i will need, but i don't think i'd be lucky enough to be able to fit the bilstein sliders into the ohlins, and i can imagine trying to get them out without damaging them would be a pretty big task.

All helpful info though, thanks very much.

(thinking i should have stuck with Koni Yellows in Maxima Bodies up front... lol)

[cozzmo]

Double nut + allen key = winner. Got the damper out. Slides perfectly into the Ohlins, but there is play (even when supported by both sliders which i couldn't slide in far enough before) so i'll definitely have to sort something out there with new bushings, and the hole at the bottom of the Ohlins strut housing is too big, but a thick washer on the end of the bilstein rod should work out good as the strut is pretty short.

Springs will be the next challenge, i've been using coilovers for so long that i'd hate to get a set of springs (especially with this mismatched setup) and find out the car is far too high or not high enough.

Ohlins struts have a "flare" at the end of the tube for their integrated seal so i might have to cut the top off the strut body and get a set of GC Sleeves. anyways i'll update again when i have something cobbled together.

[djsilver]

Double nut + allen key = winner. Got the damper out. Slides perfectly into the Ohlins, but there is play (even when supported by both sliders which i couldn't slide in far enough before) so i'll definitely have to sort something out there with new bushings, and the hole at the bottom of the Ohlins strut housing is too big, but a thick washer on the end of the bilstein rod should work out good as the strut is pretty short.

Springs will be the next challenge, i've been using coilovers for so long that i'd hate to get a set of springs (especially with this mismatched setup) and find out the car is far too high or not high enough.

Ohlins struts have a "flare" at the end of the tube for their integrated seal so i might have to cut the top off the strut body and get a set of GC Sleeves. anyways i'll update again when i have something cobbled together.

The hole in the Buddy Club housing was too large as well. I put a taper on the inner lock nut to center the shaft in the hole. Otherwise you may be able to find a sleeve to fill the space as well.

I'm not picturing the Ohlins thing. Can you post a picture?

[cozzmo]

Definintely a good idea to have something to centre the shaft, i didn't even think of that, thanks. Might get a washer/spacer type thing machined up that will centre the shaft and support it.

Picture of the Ohlins strut body with the Bilstein Damper inserted and compared with a factory strut.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/DSCI0226Medium.jpg

That's with about 8mm worth of nut/spacer holding the damper rod at the bottom so the new setup will be a little shorter.

As you can see, the Ohlins strut body has got a "flare" at the top for their integrated wiper seal, this will stop me from being able to use a ground control sleeve kit on it (as mentioned before).

I could cut it off as the bushing is located at the thinner part of the body. I'm hoping i can just find a set of 'normal' springs that are the height i want (without going through multiple sets) rather than getting a set of sleeves and springs, but if the only way to garentee my correct ride height is to get sleeves, i might just have to do it.


EDIT: I wonder how i'm going to pull out the old slider bushings, that could be fun ! Plus the old grease has all dried up inside, i cleaned them out as best i could, but its all gunked up, going to be a fun job!

[djsilver]

Definintely a good idea to have something to centre the shaft, i didn't even think of that, thanks. Might get a washer/spacer type thing machined up that will centre the shaft and support it.

Picture of the Ohlins strut body with the Bilstein Damper inserted and compared with a factory strut.

That's with about 8mm worth of nut/spacer holding the damper rod at the bottom so the new setup will be a little shorter.

As you can see, the Ohlins strut body has got a "flare" at the top for their integrated wiper seal, this will stop me from being able to use a ground control sleeve kit on it (as mentioned before).

I could cut it off as the bushing is located at the thinner part of the body. I'm hoping i can just find a set of 'normal' springs that are the height i want (without going through multiple sets) rather than getting a set of sleeves and springs, but if the only way to garentee my correct ride height is to get sleeves, i might just have to do it.


EDIT: I wonder how i'm going to pull out the old slider bushings, that could be fun ! Plus the old grease has all dried up inside, i cleaned them out as best i could, but its all gunked up, going to be a fun job!

I see what you mean about the flare now. The 3kgt shock comes with a "seal" that's included for putting on top of the old housing after cutting out the original. Could you cut off the flare, slide on the sleeves then install the Bilstein seals above them? It's the silver thing in this picture; http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1175/sdc10546y.jpg

As to removing the old seals; There's a fairly standard tool called a "blind bearing puller" that's good for that. http://toolsandmore.us/ProductImages/oem/27059.jpg

For re-installation you'll need a socket/pipe/round bar slightly smaller than the ID of the tube to knock the new ones in. My recollection is that the small end of the Bilstein housing was perfect for the job.

[cozzmo]

Yeh i got the seal with the 3KGT's, but the OD of the tube is too small (50mm) for the ID of the seal which was like 53mm i beleive, i'll need to double check it though. I'm sure i could come up with something, just trying to make use of what i've got i guess.

Thanks once again, blind bearing puller, hadn't heard of it before, but even the cheap eBay tools are expensive, and one that can do a 40mm ID part is crazy expensive (for a one off job). Might visit a local mechanic and see if i can find one that has it.

I found that the recommended way to insert the bushing was to use a mandrel to hold the bush so it didn't deform and so that no 'point loads' were put on the edge which could cause peening. Another hurdle, but i'm sure i'll get past it!

Cheers.

[djsilver]

Yeh i got the seal with the 3KGT's, but the OD of the tube is too small (50mm) for the ID of the seal which was like 53mm i beleive, i'll need to double check it though. I'm sure i could come up with something, just trying to make use of what i've got i guess.

Thanks once again, blind bearing puller, hadn't heard of it before, but even the cheap eBay tools are expensive, and one that can do a 40mm ID part is crazy expensive (for a one off job). Might visit a local mechanic and see if i can find one that has it.

I found that the recommended way to insert the bushing was to use a mandrel to hold the bush so it didn't deform and so that no 'point loads' were put on the edge which could cause peening. Another hurdle, but i'm sure i'll get past it!

Cheers.

The ID of the seal housing is 53.85mm and the OD is 58.85mm. It's made to hammer onto a 54mm housing with an interference fit. If the OD of the Ohlin housing is more than 54mm you can probably take it to a machine shop and have it opened up as much as 56mm and still work. The seal that's in it is already the correct size for the Bilstein insert. If the Ohlins housing is less than 54mm OD, you can use shim stock to fill in. If you find someone good with a lathe they can also chuck it up and "shrink" the housing by turning it and applying pressure with a roller tool.

I used a 3-jaw puller with the jaws turned around backwards, and a slide hammer to pull mine. It made some scratches on the ID of the housings but didn't affect the function, since that's not the sliding surface.

The Daemar sliding bushings I bought were 40mm ID, 44mm OD and 30mm long. The skinny end of the 3kgt housing is 43.8mm OD ;)

[cozzmo]

If i don't go the coilover sleeve route, i'll just keep it as-is because the ohlins seal seems to be the right size for the bilstein already. If i have to go for the sleeves, i'll definitely get it modified. Everything just costs so much here to do. A small lathe job places want 50 bucks just to pickup the chuck key and setup the job, not to mention that a lot of them just don't even want to look at doing small one off type jobs. Wish i had space for a lathe here, could make little spacers and bushes and stuff so easily. agrhh ! oh well!

The 3 jaw puller you used look like this one right?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Stanley-Gear-Puller-3-Jaw-75mm.aspx?pid=12539#Description


Hopefully i can find a distributor online that will ship to Australia for a small order of the bushings.

[djsilver]

If i don't go the coilover sleeve route, i'll just keep it as-is because the ohlins seal seems to be the right size for the bilstein already. If i have to go for the sleeves, i'll definitely get it modified. Everything just costs so much here to do. A small lathe job places want 50 bucks just to pickup the chuck key and setup the job, not to mention that a lot of them just don't even want to look at doing small one off type jobs. Wish i had space for a lathe here, could make little spacers and bushes and stuff so easily. agrhh ! oh well!

The 3 jaw puller you used look like this one right?

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Stanley-Gear-Puller-3-Jaw-75mm.aspx?pid=12539#Description



Hopefully i can find a distributor online that will ship to Australia for a small order of the bushings.

Yep, I feel bad for you that shipping adds so much to your projects. The 3 jaw you show looks much like mine except that mine came with a slide hammer that let me slam the old bushings out of the housing. That said, if you can find one of those cheaply and some all-thread that matches the threads on the center bolt you can build your own slide hammer with anything that's heavy with a hole in the middle! For that matter you could weld round rod to the head of the one in the picture and turn it into a slide hammer!

If you don't go the coilover route just look for some scrap pipe that can be used for spacers for the springs you find. The key is to keep your eyes open to stuff that's not even related to cars and you'll find things useful without even going to the internet! Be resourceful ;) Check junk yards, hardware stores, motorcycle shops, boat shops, etc.

[cozzmo]

Unfortunately the puller doesn't get down deep enough to grab the bottom edge of even the top bush. I have ordered another one that has longer arms, only a 2 jaw, but should do the job. I went the hardware store and got some Z brackets an hooked the edges up (always looking for alternate uses for things). i was able to get a good hold on the bottom edge of the bush, but can't steady the assembly enough to get a good impact with the slide hammer, plus the Z shape is likely taking some of the impact out of it. The bushings have been in there for most likely the best part of 10+ years so i don't think they'll be too easy to get out.

I'll work on it during the week though, thanks for your tips. Might even be able to reuse the Bilstein sliders from the insert tubes if i can get the Ohlins ones out without damaging them i might try and pull the new ones out, saves buying them.

[cozzmo]

No dice on getting the bushes out of the Ohlins. They're stuck in there REAL good. Even getting a good grip on it and smashing the slide hammer hard i'm doing nothing but burr up the lower edge of the bushing.

I'm thinking i might be up for a set of Maxima front struts to use as donors to fit the full inserts. Don't really want to do it that way, but i'm getting nowhere fast, and if i can't get the top bush out, i've got less than no hope of getting the lower one out with the setup i've got. I can't even reach it right now. Probably could leave the lower bush in there and just press in 2 new top bushes a little closer together, but still, can't get the top one out.

Cost of a blind puller with a 40mm collet is stupid money as the 'cheap china' stuff isn't made that big, and i really have no idea what kind of shop would even have something that big as most kits only go up to 30-32mm (with the quick search i've done).

I'll keep working on it, but i think for now i'll have to settle for rears only. I have TEIN Monoflex in the front, so its not all bad (they are actually fairly comfortable compared to some), but still, i was looking forward to something a little more compliant.

[djsilver]

No dice on getting the bushes out of the Ohlins. They're stuck in there REAL good. Even getting a good grip on it and smashing the slide hammer hard i'm doing nothing but burr up the lower edge of the bushing.

I'm thinking i might be up for a set of Maxima front struts to use as donors to fit the full inserts. Don't really want to do it that way, but i'm getting nowhere fast, and if i can't get the top bush out, i've got less than no hope of getting the lower one out with the setup i've got. I can't even reach it right now. Probably could leave the lower bush in there and just press in 2 new top bushes a little closer together, but still, can't get the top one out.

Cost of a blind puller with a 40mm collet is stupid money as the 'cheap china' stuff isn't made that big, and i really have no idea what kind of shop would even have something that big as most kits only go up to 30-32mm (with the quick search i've done).

I'll keep working on it, but i think for now i'll have to settle for rears only. I have TEIN Monoflex in the front, so its not all bad (they are actually fairly comfortable compared to some), but still, i was looking forward to something a little more compliant.


The only advice I can give on this is to heat the housing around the top bushing to help get it out. Sorry to hear this is giving you so much trouble!

[cozzmo]

Thanks mate, these were never going to come out easy. I ended up having to do what i didn't want to do, use hack mechanic methods ... but in the end .. I WIN !!

Best:
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/DSCI0234Medium.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/DSCI0237Small.jpg

Worst:
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/DSCI0235Medium.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/DSCI0236Small.jpg

Now, how much approx were the ones you linked me to before, and do you know of any online stores i could buy them & have them shipped to AUS. I don't like my chances of being able to pull the OEM bushes out of the bilstein inserts without creating a burr on the edge, although they will be fresh/new, even if i damage one, i'll be stuck so i'd rather just order a whole new set.

Measured them up and they are going to be these

http://catalog.daemar.com/item/th-self-lubricating-bushings-lead-free-/th-self-lubricating-bearings-metric-sizes/mb404420-th?


Moving along ! One step at a time !

[djsilver]

The Deamar bushings were less than $5 each. I have no idea how to get them from the US to Aus but I'll ship them to you at my cost if you can figure it out.

I'm not at home to measure right now but I think the Bilstein sliders were only 1.5mm thick vs. 2mm daemars that fit my Buddy Clubs. What is the ID of the Ohlin tube?

[cozzmo]

If you could organise to purchase and ship them that would be *awesome* .

ID of the Ohlins tube is right on 44mm. Due to the lip at the top i can't get calipers down to measure, but i used an ID bore measuring tool like this:

http://image.circletrack.com/f/10960571/ctrp_0406_08_z+dial_bore_gauge+telescoping_gauges. jpg

Its a little inaccurate but i measured more than once to make sure.

[cozzmo]

OK so i've got some bushings on the way from the USA (thank to djsilver !) and i went searching for some seals for the strut tube. Now i *could* take the strut to a machine shop and have the end machined down so i could press on the Bilstein piece, but machine shops are not easy to find here and none want to do the little jobs without hitting you up for a 'setup fee'...

Having enough trouble to find a place to turn up some locating washers/spacers for the damper rod and make a mandrel to press the bushings in. Top one is easy, lower bushing will be hard to get in to the correct depth without a 'tool'.

Anyway, while that's happening ... new strut tube wiper seals, expensive little critters ! Cost me AUD$17.50 each ! Had one shop quote me AUD$26 EACH ! Figured to just get two and just remind myself to be REAL careful when installing them. Probably available for you guys for $3.20 a piece, but no matter, at least i have them and they're ready so one less thing to worry about.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Bilstein/DSCI0251Small.jpg

[cozzmo]

So with a bit of Dumb Luck, i ended up buying a set of suspension off a guy that i missed out on about 1 year and a bit ago. He bought them, sat it in a cupboard for a while and never installed it so i bought them from him nice 'n cheap.

They are made by Fulcrum Suspension in Queensland Australia. They were not very common due to their RRP at the time of around AUD$2000. I now realise why they were so expensive. They're Bilsteins ! Rears are a 36mm piston (currently got 46mm ones in the car) and the fronts are same piston size insert as the 3000GT, but shorter length (by a fair bit).

Unfortunately there's a few problems with them, but for the price i got them for they're worth fixing up for sure. One front had damper oil inside the tube, one rear brings a noticeable amount of damper oil out on the rod per stroke and the rear top mounts were both missing the washer that stops the shaft going through the top mount somehow! so both shafts have got wear near the shoulder just before the chrome and must have been making a hell of a lot of noise to whomever had them installed last.

No idea on spring rates or valving or anything, even the company that made them doesn't seem to have that info (or so they said last time i spoke to them). This will however solve my issue of spring heights (or lack of height adjustability with the fixed perch setup i have now). Might get them serviced, spec up the valving thats in there and see what its like as they were made to be a sporty option rather than a comfort one.

I'm still going to persist with finishing the other setup as i've put a lot of time and money into it, just been a bit busy to work much on it lately and have to get a few things machined up which is always a hassle around here.

Anyways a few pictures for fun.

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Fulcrum%20F1/DSCI0289Medium.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Fulcrum%20F1/DSCI0279Medium.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Fulcrum%20F1/DSCI0286Medium.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Fulcrum%20F1/DSCI0285Medium.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k584/cozzmoau/Fulcrum%20F1/DSCI0293Medium.jpg

[Sunny]

how's the compression and rebound on the front bilstein insert, does it feel pretty strong or dead? if still alive then i'm guessing they must have added the oil in there for extra cooling?

i just took apart my Bilstein inserts and found the cause of the bottoming out (happen's only in certain parts of Subic Raceway here in the philippines) but no bottoming out in normal driving conditions and spirited driving anywhere else. Strong on compression and rebound.

it was just a Destroyed to bits Internal bumpstop, no leaks anywhere

Tevs