DefSport 12.2" Wilwood Superlite Front Brake Kit GB Part 2!!!

[Def]

Install Instructions

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7271/defsportbrakeinstallins.jpg


Final shipped prices are $400 for 5 lug, $420 for 4 lug.




The initial signup process will probably run for 2-3 weeks before payment is required. Delivery to me is estimated at 4-6 weeks after that (depending on GB volume), then I will ship out from there. Material ordering happens as soon as we get enough money to cover it (and a 9' long piece of 8" round aluminum isn't cheap!), so that's the reason for the compressed payment timeframe.

ENGINEERING DETAILS

The design goal for the hat was a semi-floating design(the best possible with the Wilwood rotors - they cannot be fully floating in the space available). With this in mind, I have allowed for a radial slot where the rotor mounts to the hat that is equal to the thermal expansion between the two materials(iron and aluminum) at a plus or minus 1000 deg F delta. Therefore, the rotor and hat should be able to freely expand and contract at their different material-defined rates with minimal binding. This should keep the rotor from wanting to grow into a "cone" shape that the Wilwood hats force due to being solidly held on one side(threaded into the hats). The hat design keeps the cross sectional area high at all stress paths, yet uses a minimal amount of material. The total weight of the hat is 1.53 lbs, and the rotational inertia is about 40% less than the typical "flat cup" Wilwood rotor hat.

The hardware kit uses mechanically deformed mil-spec lock nuts, as well as spring washers to maintain tension.

The caliper bracket is made from 2024-T3 aluminum alloy, which has exceptional fatigue resistance as well as hardness and yield strength approaching that of mild steels and surpassing that of most grades of cast iron. This is a true structural "aircraft" alloy of aluminum, and is exactly what most bulkheads are made of in modern fighter aircraft. The large cross sectional section enables a very stiff and strong bracket, and the usage of aluminum keeps the weight below 0.3 lbs.

...and don't worry, it's all been scienced:

http://a.imageshack.us/img256/197/wilwoodbracketfea.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img101/759/wilwoodbracketfea2.jpg

Don't worry about the distorted looking bracket - CATIA magnifies things around 1000x to make displacement visible. This FEA run was a rough assumption of Superman-style S chassis performance and its effect on the bracket. The loading assumption was all braking on the front wheels with 25" tires and total braking decelleration of a 3000 lb S-chassis at 1.5 G's. That would put actual real world braking in the ~1.8-2G range for this loading case. Max loads are around 8 ksi, which is a reasonable level for long term fatigue life without unncessary bulk. So you should be able to pull ~2 G's under braking about 10-100 million times without worry. I just want to actually see one of you guys pull that much braking force somewhere. :D

Total displacement at the lug mounting holes is about 0.0015" at this braking, so very low. The stock spindle is going to be deflecting more than that I suspect.

The FEA analysis did bring about a few design minor design changes, so they're not just pretty pictures.

Pushing it beyond the S-chassis aftermarket "well it works I guess" phase, kids!


KIT INFORMATION

Prototype kit shown without anodizing.

http://a.imageshack.us/img529/1755/img0662i.jpg

Brackets are made from 2024-T3 "aircraft aluminum" - this is the same stuff they use to make bulkheads and brackets in aircraft due to its high strength and fatigue resistance. Hats are 6061-T6 to keep the cost reasonable.

http://a.imageshack.us/img716/2121/img0664e.jpg

You know it, son!

http://a.imageshack.us/img59/384/img0665h.jpg

The rotors will be held to the hat with Grade 8 bolts, high temperature spring washers(belleville washers), and military spec "jet nuts." These are high temperature, vibration resistant nuts used on military aircraft. They're also the same nuts PFC uses on all their brake kits.

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/7562/img0666e.jpg

A picture of the hard anodizing. Oh what's that? It matches the Mil-Spec hard anodize of the D38999 electrical connector on the back of Stack dashes? You know me, I like to color coordinate the :ballerness:. :D

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4120/img0193di.jpg

Back side

http://a.imageshack.us/img251/4671/img0667oa.jpg

If you want to add Speedbleeders to your Wilwood FSL calipers - here's the Russell p/n(it/s a 1/4-28 bleeder). So now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


"So how's it all look Def?" you ask - budget baller of course!

http://a.imageshack.us/img821/9255/img0672c.jpg


But does it all fit well? You bet your ugly ass it does!

http://a.imageshack.us/img90/3931/img0670c.jpg

Pistons are fully retracted on both sides. As you can see - fitment is perfect.


Bracket looks budget baller:

http://a.imageshack.us/img688/6199/img0673i.jpg



GB run will have both the hat and bracket hard anodized a gunmetal grey.


Pricing for (2) hats and (2) brackets is $345, (1) mil-spec rotor hardware kit is $40. Shipping is an extra $15. The final kit pricing(before shipping) of $385 included EVERYTHING you need to bolt the below-linked calipers and rotors to your car. It is a bolt-on kit that anybody can install with a few hand tools. You source the calipers, rotors, lines, and pads yourself (linked below), since they are readily available off the shelf.

Parts list and price breakdown vs. the $1000 Wilwood kit for S13/S14:

Def's kit:

Hat + brackets = $345
Rotor Hardware Kit = $40 <---Hat + Bracket + Hardware kit is what the GB is for!
WIL-120-11133 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-11133/) FSL Caliper (x2) = $150x2 = $300
WIL-160-2894 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/) 12.2x1.25" rotor (R) = $42
WIL-160-2895 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/) 12.2x1.25" rotor (L) = $42
Wilwood BP-10 pads(although I recommend Hawks) = $60


Total = $829 (comparing to what Wilwood kit comes with)

Wilwood's kit street price is over $200 more for a 12.9x1.1" rotor kit with the same calipers. Wilwood leaves you also needing to purchase the lines, and for that I recommend the WIL-220-9199 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-220-9199/) ($60)brake line kit if it's in stock.

You can alternatively build your own lines with a premade -3 AN teflon line (from Earl's, Fragola etc.), and a 10mm x 1mm Inv Flare to -3 adapter for the chassis line, and a -3 AN to 1/8"-27 NPT fitting for each caliper (note you will need 2 chassis adapters, 2 for the caliper, and 2 lines - 1 set for each side).

If you have over 400 rwhp and are running these kits on track, I suggest the heavier duty rotor rings that have 48 curved vanes, Wilwood P/N 160-5845, 160-5846. This kit should handle even the highest HP S/Z chassis on track since these are the same brakes you'll find on many 800+ HP circle track cars. Mine run icy cool (<300 deg F) coming off track with over 300 rwhp. Pad life is exceptional with this kit. I recently got 16 track days out of a set of front pads and still had enough for an extra day or two.

Advantages of this kit

1. Weight savings - Save approximately 18-20 lbs over a 30mm Z32 front setup, about 25-27 lbs over an EVO/STi Brembo setup
2. Low running costs - $42 rotors, and pads that are ~40% thicker and about 40-50% cheaper than Z32 pads will have the kit paying for itself if you track your car. Let the huge economies of scale of the circle track guys work for you!
3. Race bred caliper design - lighter and most likely stiffer than a Z32 caliper - the Forged Superlite is good stuff.
4. More brake cooling up front - the cooling channel in these wider rotors and directional vanes pump a huge amount more air than Z32 front brakes. This should keep brake temps down all things equal.

Alternative brake pads I recommend(LPIRacing does free shipping for any order over $100 - definitely a bargain! I get all my pads from these guys!):

-Hawk HT-10 for track usage - low cost, more difficult to bed (http://www.lpiracing.com/HB521S-800-Hawk-HT10-Race-Brake-Pads-759p11080.htm)
-Hawk HPS for street usage (http://www.lpiracing.com/HB521F-800-Hawk-HPS-Street-Brake-Pads-759p11079.htm)
-Hawk DTC-60 for track usage - easy bedding (http://www.lpiracing.com/HB521G-800-Hawk-DTC-60-Race-Brake-Pads-759p11075.htm)

I'll be taking orders for a few weeks then start production. If you want the rotor hats and brackets, I highly suggest jumping in on the GB. I do not expect to have significant extras.

Parts Price = $345+40 = $385 for 5x114.3mm bolt pattern hats

Add $20 for 4x114.3mm hats (becomes a nightmare to keep track of a few custom parts in a sea of other ones, but it can be done)

Shipping is $15 in the lower 48 states. Contact me for overseas shipping quotes.

Final shipped prices are $400 for 5 lug, $420 for 4 lug.

List:
*No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. A.Brent
16. jham4x4
17. speed_demon
18. konjiki7
19. twistedsymphony
20.

Total: 19

[jbennett58]

I will take one set

[nismofly]

http://a.imageshack.us/img59/384/img0665h.jpg



Your nuts are hairy

Sorry I couldn't help myself:D

[Def]

I blame the brains behind DefSport:

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2262/img0192gd.jpg

:D

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Put me down for a set! I'll have the money within 10 days (waiting for paycheck :D). What are the payment details (paypal I'm assuming)?

[Def]

You guys sure are making me work for this list... :)

[Def]

Copy and add yourself to the list if interested:

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
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13.
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Total: 2



And yes, payment will be through Paypal.

[KNerd]

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
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Total: 3

[cdlong]

Do you have the dimensions necessary for wheel clearance? I'm ordering a set of Custom wheels in a few weeks and want to make sure these will fit. (not ready to order a set right now)

[0wn3r]

Passenger side rotor is straight vane and driver's side is directional/curved?

Put me down for a set.

[e1_griego]

Hey steve, get rid of your megan coilovers before you buy brakes ;)

I dont' think I can afford to jump in on this, unfortunately :(

[Bubba]

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
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19.
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Total: 4

[Def]

Do you have the dimensions necessary for wheel clearance? I'm ordering a set of Custom wheels in a few weeks and want to make sure these will fit. (not ready to order a set right now)

http://www.wilwood.com/images/Caliper/images_dimensions-lg/Forged_Superlite_Internal-cm-lg.jpg

Look at the outside radius for a 12.19" rotor. Spoke clearance is slightly better than Z32 30mm aluminum calipers by a few mm.

[Def]

Passenger side rotor is straight vane and driver's side is directional/curved?

Put me down for a set.

That's a Summitracing goof, they're both 32 curved vane rotors (that are linked, or you can go with 42 vane rotors). The Wilwood site lists stuff out pretty well if you want to see what else works as a 12.19x1.25" rotor with a 8x7 bolt pattern.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Hey steve, get rid of your megan coilovers before you buy brakes ;)

I dont' think I can afford to jump in on this, unfortunately :(

Trust me, I'm working on it! Never even put the damn things on! lol

[0wn3r]

That's a Summitracing goof, they're both 32 curved vane rotors (that are linked, or you can go with 42 vane rotors). The Wilwood site lists stuff out pretty well if you want to see what else works as a 12.19x1.25" rotor with a 8x7 bolt pattern.

Ok thanks.

Do you really want me to copy that whole list and put my name in, or can you update the first post?

[Def]

Ok thanks.

Do you really want me to copy that whole list and put my name in, or can you update the first post?

Just for you I'll update the list. :p

[Def]

List updated in original post.

[Epstein]

How in the world are these 25 pounds lighter than the OEM Brembo packages? That's insane! You know, you could redo the spindle side holes to 14mm and sell these to 350Z track guys. With the weight advantage and the frugal running costs, these would be great for guys who track the Z33's. I imagine that it will be a growing market as the cars get cheaper. Most of the old 03-05 cars had the crummy single piston fronts.

[cdlong]

Thanks. I didn't think about that they would post the specs somewhere, this is real racing stuff anyway. Would it be possible to get just the hat and hardware? I'm thinking of running the 11.75x.81" rotor to save another 2.5 lbs per corner, make running under 15's more likely, and keep the front bias in check. Mine is an autocross car, and weight is more important than thermal capacity.

[blackej7]

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
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[Bubba]

I may have a friend interested in getting a set for his Z32.

[Serebros]

how do the pad prices compare with stoptech calipers

[Def]

Much much cheaper than most Stoptech fitments. Price out ST-40 figment DTC-60s. The Superlites are around $130/set shipped.

[CodyAce]

How in the world are these 25 pounds lighter than the OEM Brembo packages? That's insane! You know, you could redo the spindle side holes to 14mm and sell these to 350Z track guys. With the weight advantage and the frugal running costs, these would be great for guys who track the Z33's. I imagine that it will be a growing market as the cars get cheaper. Most of the old 03-05 cars had the crummy single piston fronts.

I too couldn't believe it until I transfered everything over to my roomates car. The rotors are the big difference. The aluminum calipers felt close to the same, maybe a 1lb or 2 at most.

Good call on the Z33 idea, there should be no issue making them fit at all!

[Bubba]

Do the calipers linked on pg. 1 throw the brake bias off like the Z32 brakes or would a Z32 need to order calipers with a different sized piston to accomodate for the change?

[Def]

Do the calipers linked on pg. 1 throw the brake bias off like the Z32 brakes or would a Z32 need to order calipers with a different sized piston to accomodate for the change?

Bias is just slightly moved forward with the calipers linked up on the original post compared to Z32 front calipers.


I run a 1" BM50 Z32 MC, these FSL up front, and Z32 rear calipers with good results. Brake bias feels great on track.

[Def]

How in the world are these 25 pounds lighter than the OEM Brembo packages? That's insane! You know, you could redo the spindle side holes to 14mm and sell these to 350Z track guys. With the weight advantage and the frugal running costs, these would be great for guys who track the Z33's. I imagine that it will be a growing market as the cars get cheaper. Most of the old 03-05 cars had the crummy single piston fronts.

I've thought about changing it up for 350Z guys, but honestly it doesn't seem like many of them go to the track. Those that do, seems like they strive to have crummy stock Brembos with their high weight, expensive pads, and fragile dust boots (under track usage).

I've mentioned it to some Z33 guys at the track, and not one of them even gave it a second thought. In fact, they thought I was crazy for selling a "Big Brake Kit" that doesn't have like 14" rotors or something. Because you know rotor diameter is the only thing that matters... :rolleyes: At least it does when you only hard park. :D

[WorkInProgressK]

4 lug 4 me Def and I might have a friend who wants one for his skyline, so 5 lug( I will confirm) *confirmed* tomorrow!.

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9.
10.
11.
12.
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[galantx]

Put me down for a set! What would shipping to norway be!?

Terje

[klys]

Hi, I'm WorkInProgressK's friend with the skyline.

I've been following your other thread for a few weeks and I'm quite happy you're doing this GB again!

put me down for a 5 lug set!

thanks!

[Def]

Put me down for a set! What would shipping to norway be!?

Terje

PM sent with international shipping cost information.

[Bubba]

So when should I be ready to send payment?

[Def]

So when should I be ready to send payment?

I will provide payment details in about a week or so and give everybody about 1.5-2 weeks to get their payment in.

If this doesn't work for somebody but they want to get in on the GB, contact me through PM and maybe we can work something out.

[Bubba]

Awesome. I was hoping for payments to be made sorta soon. Have to make a few more purchases immediately after this is all said and done. Trying to finish the KA-t and this project all at once.

[BAMF_S14]

Count me in as #10.

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11.
12.
13.
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[Def]

Updated the list.

[onosqv]

#11

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12.
13.
14.
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19.
20.

[95SILVIA14]

put me down for a set
#11

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12.95silvia14
13.
14.
15.
16.
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18.
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[Def]

Updated list.

[leetfade]

Damn... came at the worst possible time.. *sigh*

[SOneThreeCoupe]

I'm in this time.

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
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[AceInHole]

Waiting for the full kit.... get on it!

[Def]

Waiting for the full kit.... get on it!

Rears totally suck... :(

I've got to get more parts to really do some better mockup than I can do right now. In the meantime the fronts work great. :D


BTW - would you guys still be interested if there's no e-brake provision? It would obviously have to be a drum e-brake if I am able to get it to work, but that might just not be possible.

[V1A]

I would prefer that it didn't have an e-brake.

[Seraphim38]

If I hadn't just damaged a rod bearing in my SR20DET I would be all over this.

[Def]

I would prefer that it didn't have an e-brake.

Well there's one... hah

Ill see what I can come up with.

[Tower240sx]

the E-brake is a mute point your issue is getting the caliper to work a a diameter small enough to make sense due to the nissan casting, give in on the stupid caliper you picked and make things easier, don't shoot your toe off because some one else has the same lack of reasoning that you do.

[Bubba]

I would be fine if it required a hydraulic e-brake mod of some sort. Not sure how possible it is to have a full working set of brakes with a hydro setup tied in at the same time though.

I studied suspension and drivetrain the whole time I've been working on my car, nothing on brake systems and actual chain of events in the functioning process.

[WorkInProgressK]

I want a two caliper design!

Oh yeah. I could certainly draw it up...lol

[Jrocks13]

I'm In!

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

[Def]

the E-brake is a mute point your issue is getting the caliper to work a a diameter small enough to make sense due to the nissan casting, give in on the stupid caliper you picked and make things easier, don't shoot your toe off because some one else has the same lack of reasoning that you do.

Well grumpy, you can keep running your heavy arse drum ebrake till the end of time. No one is going to force you to let it go. :cool:

[roel03]

I'm In!

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. roel03
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

In

[PerilousActs]

I'd prefer no ebrake as well.

[KNerd]

I don't need one either

[Def]

Updated the list. Payment details will be posted soon both at the "end" of the thread and in the original post.

[Bubba]

The anticipation is already building... can't wait to get everything installed.

[roel03]

Is the hardware for the caliper to bracket and from bracket to car included as well?

[Def]

Is the hardware for the caliper to bracket and from bracket to car included as well?

The caliper to bracket bolts are included. Reuse your stock caliper bolts to bolt on the bracket to the spindle.

All the hardware is included to essentially "bolt up the kit and calipers to your car minus brake lines" like if you were buying Z32 calipers and tossing them on.

[roel03]

Any idea when they are expected to be shipped out? Only reason I ask is because I just sold my brembo front setup to fund these.

[CodyAce]

Nice stuff here!
http://www.codyace.com/albums/album434/install2.sized.jpg http://www.codyace.com/albums/album434/install1.sized.jpg

[Jrocks13]

Taken from Def's 1st post

The initial signup process will probably run for 2-3 weeks before payment is required. Delivery to me is estimated at 4-6 weeks after that (depending on GB volume), then I will ship out from there.

[Def]

JRocks is right, about 1-1.5 months is the timeframe for the FIRST kits to ship out. I ship out in order I received payment. The volume is on the high side for a GB, so expect about 6 weeks after we close up the GB.

[roel03]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-639540/

There is a link to the speed-bleeders from Summit. Same as the part number and size as you posted.

[A.Brent]

Add me in for a kit.


1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. roel03
16. A.Brent
17.
18.
19.
20.

[Def]

Payment information is provided at the top of the first post and here for those following the thread.



Payment Information

Paypal is jfannon at gmail dot com (remove antispam). Pricing information copied from below:


Parts Price = $345+40 = $385 for 5x114.3mm bolt pattern hats

Add $20 for 4x114.3mm hats (becomes a nightmare to keep track of a few custom parts in a sea of other ones, but it can be done)

Shipping is $15 in the lower 48 states. Contact me for overseas shipping quotes.

Final shipped prices are $400 for 5 lug, $420 for 4 lug.

[KNerd]

Money sent! I cant wait to get these!

[Def]

Payment received, thanks.

[galantx]

money sent! 435$ for oversea shipment!

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Gotta make a deposit, then I'll be sending mine! No later than Wednesday for me.

[Def]

7 payments received so far! Raw material is on order. Next is the dreaded $400 little baggie of nuts!!!

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Payment Sent!

[Tower240sx]

if by material you mean hookers and hash...yeah I ordered that stuff last night.

[Jrocks13]

Money Sent.

[Def]

if by material you mean hookers and hash...yeah I ordered that stuff last night.

I figured that's what your little operation ran on... :cool:

[jham4x4]

What could be better for a first post than getting in on part 2!!! Add me to the list #16.

List:
*No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. A.Brent
16. jham4x4
17.
18.
19.
20.

[Def]

The more the merrier! List updated!

[PoorMans180SX]

Dang, I'm trying to get in on this! Pinching pennies!

[WorkInProgressK]

Are we there yet?

[Def]

Are we there yet?

There was no minimum order. If you paid, you're getting a kit. :D



So far I've only gotten 11 people that have paid, so if you haven't paid and still want to be a party of the GB, please contact me. I figure GB pricing will be in effect for another week then I'll close it off and order all the hardware needed.

[WorkInProgressK]

I paid! well I hope you received it :P

[Def]

I paid! well I hope you received it :P

Turns out this GB went incognito.... almost nobody listed their screen name with thier payment so it's a little difficult to track down who has paid as it relates to the list. If you sent it to the address listed in the payment instructions, I recieved it though!

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I know I included my screen name, lol. Let me know if you got it or not. I'm pretty sure I entered the correct email.

[Def]

If you log into Paypal and you sent money to jfannon at gmail dot com - then yes, I got it.


But yes, I went through them all, and I got yours.

[speed_demon]

I found your first GB thread a week or so too late, so I'm glad you started another. :D

List:
*No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. A.Brent
16. jham4x4
17. speed_demon
18.
19.
20.

Edit: Payment sent! :)

[Def]

Good deal, always room for more! Updated list.

[roel03]

Installed mine today and bedded the new pads and rotors. These feel sooo much better than the STi Brembo setup. Steering so much easier with the lost weight as well. Stopping power is much better as well.

How does everyone's pedal feel with these? I have Z32 in rear, 17/16" BMC and a S14 auto booster and I was hoping it would be a litter stiffer. Still have to dial out some of the dead pedal though.

Here's mine:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/roel03_photo/IMG_6120.jpg

[Def]

These have a slightly larger piston than Z32 brakes, and I think the STi Brembos have smaller piston diameters (hence the stiffer pedal and less braking force).

The pedal feel improves a bit as you fully wear in the pad to the rotor as well, but it's a minor change. Changing to a booster with less assist will firm up the pedal some as well.

[BAMF_S14]

Money Sent. I included screen name and my email matches my screen name so hopefully its an easy match. Really looking forward to these!

[Def]

Money Sent. I included screen name and my email matches my screen name so hopefully its an easy match. Really looking forward to these!

Got it. Thanks.

[klys]

Hey Def, can you confirm you got my payment?


thanks

[Def]

Please PM me the full name associated with your Paypal account, it's much easier that way.

But if you look at your paypal account history it should clearly show if you sent money and what the status of that is. I don't mind checking though.

[speed_demon]

Hey Def, any ideas on a possible date for these kits to start shipping?

[konjiki7]

I will send you a payment tonight.


List:
*No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. A.Brent
16. jham4x4
17.konjiki7
18.
19.
20.

[Def]

Hey Def, any ideas on a possible date for these kits to start shipping?


Ill be closing the GB relatively soon. After that 6-8 weeks or so. Material delays might push that a bit.

[SOneThreeCoupe]

Finally paid.

[Def]

Finally paid.

Got yours and konjiki7's in the past couple of days. Thanks!


I think I'm going to close this up sometime next week guys, so if you're on the fence, jump on in!

[Bubba]

Someone please remember to post up if you hear about a +10% discount at Summit for orders over a certain amount so we can try to snag the calipers and rotors a little cheaper.

[PerilousActs]

I might be able to help you all with them in about a week or so. I'm direct with wilwood now, but I don't wanna really advertise here without permission.

[Matt93SE]

You just had to post this 24 hours AFTER I dumped $2200 in brake parts?!

[Tower240sx]

I give you permission spill the beans perilous

[Bubba]

Spill it!
.
.
.
Please?

[Def]

You can tell everybody here.... if I get a 10% cut. :D

[PerilousActs]

I finally got the last of some material I needed from them today. I'll work out the pricing for all of the Wilwood components together and post it up.

[Matt93SE]

Will you take a return on the 1.38" superlites I just bought, drilled the mounting holes to 12mm, then figured out wouldn't fit? pretty please? :)
(yeah, that's a big FUKKIN DOH!)

[Black R]

Fuuuck I only ordered last week


I got all the components Monday - good news is that the calipers are black again. They must have gotten rid of all the gunmetal colored ones.

[Def]

Ok, so it looks like people are more interested in whored out Wilwood parts than the ballerness supporting equipment, so that's a good cue to close up the GB.

I'll close it tomorrow (Tuesday 6-14) at midnight. So if you're on the fence, shoot me a PM!

[Bubba]

I vote new thread for the Wilwood parts...

Thanks again for doing another run at just the right time for my wallet also. Can't wait til the teaser pics start rolling in.

[leetfade]

Sorry Def.. I would say that's why he didn't want to "spill it". We definitely aren't trying to mess up your GB thread... If the site mods are ok with it we can start a thread about it.. We're not trying to step on anyone's toes, though.

People need to buy the crap out of these parts then just email us for the part numbers he provided that you need to supply to finish the set up!

[Def]

No no, I don't feel slighted in the least. Anything to help the community save some money. These are" budget baller" afterall. :D

A new thread might make it easier to keep things organized though. Feel free to link it in this thread.

[leetfade]

Who are the admins so we can do this properly? LoL I'm just hesitant to make a post like that without them saying it's alright. I know a lot of sites are very particular and want ridiculous amounts of money...

[McCoy]

Richard (veilside180sx)

[leetfade]

Thanks! I sent him a message. :-) I also sent my contact at Wilwood a message about a group buy to supplement this. ;-)

[Tower240sx]

I received a 65" long 8" diameter bar of 6061-t6511 yesterday, anyone have an Idea of what to do with it, it was ~$900

I'm thinking billet driveshaft or maybe a billet crank for mockup (you know, to save weight...)

[Matt93SE]

BUILD A CANNON!

damn this software version.. it un-capslocks posts for you if your entire post is in caps. STUPID!

[Def]

Roll it in front of cars on the highway. Always good for some lulz watchijg.someone dodge a few hubdred lb log of aluminum dookie...

[Bubba]

PCV can be used for the cannon.
Make me a ballin ass hood prop out of it.

[ManoNegra]

I received a 65" long 8" diameter bar of 6061-t6511 yesterday, anyone have an Idea of what to do with it, it was ~$900

I'm thinking billet driveshaft or maybe a billet crank for mockup (you know, to save weight...)

turn it down and make a strut bar???

[leetfade]

If anyone talks to Veilside180sx can you give him a nudge towards his Inbox?? LoL

I'm interested to see what you do with that bar, Tower. :-)

[PerilousActs]

The obvious answer is billet dildo shift knobs. They'll sell like hotcakes on zilvia. Imagine the profits!

[Def]

The obvious answer is billet dildo shift knobs. They'll sell like hotcakes on zilvia. Imagine the profits!

Saw this fight between Tower240SX and ManoNegra captured at work (SoCal brah!). So they've already got the dildo angle covered... :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FyvR-33iGc

[PerilousActs]

That was ****ing hilarious.

[ManoNegra]

6061 billet Nismo 'buttplug' knobs is where is at.

[Matt93SE]

My shifter is so loose it flops around like a big dildo.. that close enough?

[Tower240sx]

good times,
good friends

[Def]

6061 billet Nismo 'buttplug' knobs is where is at.

Ok, I see you're the guy that was on the ground then. Wasn't sure who was who there...

:D

[mattah]

Sorry Def.. I would say that's why he didn't want to "spill it". We definitely aren't trying to mess up your GB thread... If the site mods are ok with it we can start a thread about it.. We're not trying to step on anyone's toes, though.

People need to buy the crap out of these parts then just email us for the part numbers he provided that you need to supply to finish the set up!

I was just about to order the calipers etc this weekend. Keep us informed and you better ship o/s.. ;)

[Bubba]

I'm still curious as to what kind of prices they will be able to work in for us. I will have the money ready to buy the calipers and stuff in 2 weeks.

[jham4x4]

Payment Sent. Thanks!

[Z28ricer]

Caveman style baseball bat.

[Def]

Going out of the country for a week soon, but Mike is eagerly slaving away on the CNC mill/lathes churning out DefSport parts. Expect an update when I get back after July 4th.

[Tower240sx]

currently the hats are at the saw/grind shop,

I am going to have the parts precision sawed off the bar then double disc ground to establish flatness at the final thickness, this saves some machine time (but is more expensive) it will also ensure the parallelism of the 2 faces saving me some delicate fixturing that was tedious.

I will try and remember to snap pics as we progress so you fanboi's can fill your drool buckets and worship my machining glory.

Yeah I said it,

I'll say it again later for those who only skim, i'll put it under a picture everybody reads picture captions

[Bubba]

Hell yeah. Drool bucket will be upsized, BMC and rear calipers being hunted down now.

[leetfade]

Sorry guys, I still haven't heard back from Veilside so I'm trying to play nice..

I think Perilous is going to put some numbers up for you guys today, though.

And yes, Tower, post pics for us fanbois!! LoL

[PerilousActs]

Here you go guys: http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?p=50566#post50566

[leetfade]

Def,

I'm going to ask the dumb question (and sorry if it's already been answered) but does this kit use standard S13 / S14 brake lines or is a longer / different one needed?

EDIT: Found it... WIL-220-9199. Thanks for being thorough!

[0wn3r]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but you mentioned heavier duty 48-vane rotors can be used.

Wilwood has your 48 vane rotor part numbers (Wilwood P/N 160-5845, 160-5846) listed as 32 vane. Were they under a different part number?

TIA

[twistedsymphony]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, but you mentioned heavier duty 48-vane rotors can be used.

Wilwood has your 48 vane rotor part numbers (Wilwood P/N 160-5845, 160-5846) listed as 32 vane. Were they under a different part number

I was wondering the same thing myself.

[leetfade]

Based on the Wilwood database and their site, the Ultralites only come in 30 and 32 vane varieties. To get a higher vane count, up to 72 (ffs..), you have to go to an HD or GT rotor.

The cost goes up significantly (obviously) and the weight does increase. It becomes a balancing act of how much you really need. :-)

[koukimonster]

This GB still available. Im interested!!!

[onosqv]

Another 2lb's per corner: Brake Rotor 160-5865 (http://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorProd.aspx?itemno=160-5865).

Diameter & mounting is the same as the one specified in your OP. However, width is only .81... That shouldn't be a problem, correct?

And this one is the correct width but wrong diameter: Brake Rotor 160-5864 (http://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorProd.aspx?itemno=160-5864).

[Matt93SE]

Those would work for drifting or drag racing, but that's about it. DO NOT use those on the street or for road racing. they'll assplode on you in short time due to the fatigue life and heat stress.

[Tower240sx]

This GB still available. Im interested!!!

DEF will be back shortly and he'll let you know the skinny, I believe there are kits still available but you may or may not have missed the group buy pricing

[koukimonster]

I missed the group buy last time for lack of funding, this time, just been wrapped up in life and less interwebz browsing. I'll wait for Def to return. Thanks Tower.

[0wn3r]

Those would work for drifting or drag racing, but that's about it. DO NOT use those on the street or for road racing. they'll assplode on you in short time due to the fatigue life and heat stress.

For 250-300hp, you think those 32 vane ultralites are a bad choice? I know Def mentioned >400 you should switch to the HD's so I was going to start off with the ultralites for now. Not a good idea?

[Tower240sx]

DEF clearly said his car has 300hp and he tracks with the 32 vane

unless your 300hp is somehow better than His your question is answered sir

[leetfade]

LoL Tower.. So brash. :-P

My engineering is clearly inferior to Def / Tower's but the 32 vane should be more than sufficient. At the price you're getting them at (assuming you're buying from us :-P), they're cheaper than OEM (well close) so even if they do fatigue faster than you anticipated, they'll last you plenty long to get your money's worth. :-)

[McCoy]

For 250-300hp, you think those 32 vane ultralites are a bad choice? I know Def mentioned >400 you should switch to the HD's so I was going to start off with the ultralites for now. Not a good idea?
I think it's a good way to start off with. I'm somwhere over 300whp and the 32 vane UL rotors are holding up just fine for the pair of track days I've attended... and I'm on hoosiers which has the tendancy to put more abuse on the brakes.

[0wn3r]

unless your 300hp is somehow better than His your question is answered sir

Yes, my 300hp is better.




(because it's probably closer to 250 atm, and we're always taught less is more)

:p

[Tower240sx]

yeah yeah so I'm an A$$hole,

it's not like I try to Hide it

I'm cuddly

[Matt93SE]

the light duty ones would be okay, but I wouldn't use the swiss-cheese rotors on anything but drag/drift use that sees the equivalent of 1-2 road course laps at a time. the amount of time you spend on the brakes on a road course will eat that swiss cheese in short time.

a solid light duty rotor will be just fine for your power levels. I've been using an equivalent from Coleman on my ~150whp car for 2 years or so and have probably 80 hours on track with them. I picked up another set of them to keep on the trailer for spares, but I don't see these NEEDING replacement anytime soon. I can probably get at least another year out of them.

[onosqv]

^^^ That's good to know, thanks.

The swiss-cheese rotors are for autox use. My car will be approximately 300hp but the braking in autox is very different than road courses. Of course, I will attend the occasional track event w/ the same car.

I'll be able to figure out once everything is installed; just seeing what diameters & widths of rotors I can get away w/ for the long run (i.e. reg 32 vane when I run @ track, swiss cheese rest of the year).

[leetfade]

I"m assuming by "swiss cheese" you mean cross drilled, and I'm guessing it's for cooling? If so, why not look at something like a DBA that has better inherent cooling capabilities without the needs of cross-drilling? Just a thought.

[Def]

The light duty 32 vane rotor is fine at 300 rwhp, but they are so light that they can develop cracking if you overcool them. I had 1 crack form on each of mine on a 25 deg F track day with my normal ducting. The outside face cooled fast enough to form a small crack I could just catch my fingernail on. The 48 vane rotors are a little more resistant to this with a hair more weight.

Im running the 48 vane rotors now, but have another set of 32 vane ones ready to go. So far I have 4 weekends on the 48 vaners with no signs of wear.

My first set of DTC-60s lasted a little over twice as long as the same pad on Z33 30mm brakes.

[Def]

BTW, this bracket and hat are designed around a 1.25" wide caliper and rotor. You could potentially make other widths work with shimming the caliper.

The 32 vane rotors are so light though that I don't think you're going to find much weight and still have something that'd Id even consider streetable (I.e. still vented). You're probably looking at a pound, maybe 2 max per side.

[Def]

Just to keep the reply combo going, where are the fanboi pics?

[Bubba]

Pics!

[onosqv]

thanks def. 1.25 it is. would i be able to run a smaller or larger diameter? no street use. trailered and autox only for now.

[Def]

Sorry, rotor diameter is fixed by the bracket. No way to modify that with the same bracket


The next most common rotor size is 11.75", so you're not looking at a huge change in wheel clearance (about 3/16").

[Matt93SE]

I've got a bracket for 11.75" rotors to fit a Dynalite or a Superlite if you want to mess with them. But 11.75" rotors are quite a bit more expensive at $75ea and the hats are completely custom as well. (or you could just use R32 GTR rotors, which is what I patterned the kit after)

not to take awya from Def's stuff, but I can get them for you if you want. it'll cost a lot more than Def's kit tho.

[NismoPlsr]

If this group buy is over what is the full price for a kit?

[Def]

If this group buy is over what is the full price for a kit?

PM sent.

[leetfade]

First of the year I'll be watching for another GB... I need baller parts too!! LoL That and I'd be advertising your parts with mine at shows. ;-)

[Def]

First of the year I'll be watching for another GB... I need baller parts too!! LoL That and I'd be advertising your parts with mine at shows. ;-)

The front BBK has been more popular than I anticipated, so it'll definitely be back for another round in the future. Hopefully commodities prices stop shooting up! That's what caused the price to jump up from the first run to this one. :mad:

[leetfade]

I got a little too crazy this year already + funding a start up business so my play funds went bye bye a long time ago! Ha. Next bonus check will be a go big or go home type moment, though. :-)

Maybe we'll be in an even better Wilwood tier by then!! ;-)

[Tower240sx]

here be the blanks for the rotor hats....
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/photo2.jpg


and the only open cnc machine in the whole shop that CAN do the job (less hp so slower feeds and speeds)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/photo1.jpg


holy sh!t WTF is this cluster F*ck

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/photo3.jpg

[Bubba]

Yay, progress pics! I'm anxious to get everything installed already. Wisdom tooth removal slowed down the funds for the moment though.

[sulik]

Damn i need this kit too... i hope there will be nanother GB in the next 1-2 months. :rolleyes:

I got a S13 with S14 FLCA´s, does anyone know if the clearance is okay with my setup?
I´ve read thet there can be fitment issues.... :confused:

[Bubba]

I've got full S14 suspension so if nobody can answer your question before I start my install, I will let you know. Of course I can't answer that for you until everything is finished and in my hands though.

[Def]

Damn i need this kit too... i hope there will be nanother GB in the next 1-2 months. :rolleyes:

I got a S13 with S14 FLCA´s, does anyone know if the clearance is okay with my setup?
I´ve read thet there can be fitment issues.... :confused:

I can't see why you'd have fitment issues. The rotor comes no where near stock FLCAs.

[sulik]

Maybe the ET of the brake disc/ the custom hat?

[Matt93SE]

I'm running something very similar on my car currently and there's tons of room between the rotor and control arm.

[Def]

Maybe the ET of the brake disc/ the custom hat?

The brake rotor is slightly farther OUT(i.e. more clearance) than a Z32 30 mm wide rotor.

Who said they had clearance issues with my kit??? I've never heard this before.

[Bubba]

Nor have I. I'm pretty curious now too. Ha

Anyways, anymore teaser pics for us "fanbois"?

[Tower240sx]

sorry for slow follow ups, I have had a couple of guys out sick, I'm now sick and Boeing has a huge piece of male anatomy stuck in my posterior, I have the fixture on the CNC mill ready to go and as soon as I'm well enough to get back to 16-18 hour days (im only working 10 right now) We will get to see some progress pics...by the end of the week.

[Bubba]

Get well soon man, I know how you feel. Had my wisdom teeth cut out Friday morning and my face is still swollen to hell and back. Damn stitches!

[NismoPlsr]

sorry for slow follow ups, I have had a couple of guys out sick, I'm now sick and Boeing has a huge piece of male anatomy stuck in my posterior, I have the fixture on the CNC mill ready to go and as soon as I'm well enough to get back to 16-18 hour days (im only working 10 right now) We will get to see some progress pics...by the end of the week.

Feel better soon, dude.

I would love to see many pictures of fixtures and machining along the way. I miss having full access to both CNC and manual machines at school.

[Def]

sorry for slow follow ups, I have had a couple of guys out sick, I'm now sick and Boeing has a huge piece of male anatomy stuck in my posterior, I have the fixture on the CNC mill ready to go and as soon as I'm well enough to get back to 16-18 hour days (im only working 10 right now) We will get to see some progress pics...by the end of the week.

You say you don't like it, but you keep going back to them for more. One might think you really enjoy it... :confused: :eek:



It's all still in work guys. Unfortunately DefSport takes a back seat to that pesky aerospace work. Those presumptious aholes who send stuff into space and all that!!! Don't they know we need brake components!!!

[Bubba]

Amen Def, preach it brother.

Those fagz send something useless into the sky all the time. DefSport only holds a group buy every once in a while. They need to step down and be fair about the use of machine time.

[CodyAce]

FWIW: everytime I lock the front tires, I think of Def.

[WorkInProgressK]

FWIW: everytime I lock the front tires, I think of Def.

even in the mustang ;)

[sulik]

Who said they had clearance issues with my kit??? I've never heard this before.

Found it: http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=2078&page=51
Post #507 :)

[Matt93SE]

That's an issue between Hawk pads and Wilwood calipers- nothing to do with the parts Def supplies. And they ALL fit close. every set of Hawk pads I've used on my car fit that way, although I didn't need to grind any to make them fit. you just have to persuade the pads into the calipers with a few taps from a small hammer or something to get them started.
The issue is the stainless steel spring shims must be completely flattened before the pad goes in. that takes quite a bit of squeezing before they flatten out.

[Def]

That's an issue between Hawk pads and Wilwood calipers- nothing to do with the parts Def supplies. And they ALL fit close. every set of Hawk pads I've used on my car fit that way, although I didn't need to grind any to make them fit. you just have to persuade the pads into the calipers with a few taps from a small hammer or something to get them started.
The issue is the stainless steel spring shims must be completely flattened before the pad goes in. that takes quite a bit of squeezing before they flatten out.

What he said.

I don't make the calipers and certainly not the pads. They don't slip right in, they need some persausion.

[sulik]

Aaaaah alright.
Okay got it guys. :D

[BAMF_S14]

Question on brake pads. What will be the better pad to use for autocross? I hit one or 2 track days a year, drive less than 2000 miles a year on the street, but the primary purpose is autocross. I am currently using Hawk HP+ pads in my stock calipers and I think they have a good balance between cold performance for autocross and withstand track use. I'm not sure if the other hawk pads like the DTC-60 will be the better way to go, or go HPS for cold performance. Recommendations?

[Matt93SE]

Stay with the HPS or HP+. The DTC-60s don't really work properly until they get hot, so it's not a pad you want for Auto X.

[Def]

Stick with HP+ if you like them now. DTC-60 is on the borderline of what I can handle on the street driving it once a month or so. They are LOUD when they get up to an inbetween temp above ambient but below their operating temp. They would suck at autox because you might get them up to temp towards the end of a run, and the coefficient of friction jumps up dramatically when it happens. If it happens while braking hard you will get tire lockup.

[Beejis60]

Stay with the HPS or HP+. The DTC-60s don't really work properly until they get hot, so it's not a pad you want for Auto X.

Can you run anything outside of hawks in these clappers? I hate hawk pads... .I mean I don't have this setup now, but I'm just thinking down the road.

[McCoy]

Can you run anything outside of hawks in these clappers?
Well... wilwood of course. PFC, Ferodo, Carbotech, and I'm sure that any company that makes a track pad has one for the superlite.


I hate hawk pads...
So please explain what make you hate hawk so much... curious here.

[0wn3r]

When I switched out the carbotechs back to my HPS pads for the street...omfg, at first the pedal felt mushy, the car takes forever to stop. I honestly think my old set of axxis metalmasters felt better than Hawk HPS

I really don't see many positive reviews about Hawk pads for 240's aside from the DTC-60's and maybe the 70's.

[McCoy]

carbotech doesn't make a street oriented pad... so comparing a fairly expensive pad made for autocross/track day to a street pad (HPS) is not the best of comparisons. And I don't see how you can have a mushy pedal because of the pad :confused:

I don't really care for the street pads, but I've owned both HPS and axiss pads and thought they were about the same... both stopped my car about the same and both died on the track easily :)

[Def]

Hawk HPS aren't my favorite street pad, but I wouldn't exactly call them bad. I've felt far far worse pads.

Their track pads are pretty hard to beat for the cost and longevity of them. My brake budget for a whole weekend is about what my gas cost is for a session or so.

I might give some PFC pads a go, all the baller Porsche and BMW guys rave about them.

[0wn3r]

carbotech doesn't make a street oriented pad... so comparing a fairly expensive pad made for autocross/track day to a street pad (HPS) is not the best of comparisons. And I don't see how you can have a mushy pedal because of the pad :confused:

I don't really care for the street pads, but I've owned both HPS and axiss pads and thought they were about the same... both stopped my car about the same and both died on the track easily :)

Yeah, it was more of a statment how some people say "NEVER RUN A TRACK PAD ON THE STREET" but with street pads I almost slam into people because there's not as much bite. It just "felt" mushy in comparison to the bite of a track pad even when cold.

[Matt93SE]

Well if you just went from carbotechs to hawks on the same rotors and they didn't work, that's pretty typical.

when you run a track pad, your wear the rotors a lot more, grooving them to some extent (grooves smaller than the naked eye can see) and the pad also develops a film/layer of pad material on the rotors. This is typical of every pad out there.

Then you switch pads to a completely different compound and different surface texture. i.e. the grooves no longer line up, and the pads don't like the stuff that's on the rotor surface.

This causes the pedal to both be mushy and to not want to work i.e. more pedal effort because of the lack of proper surface contact.

there are a few ways to get around this if you use separate street and track pads.
1. deal with it.
2. bed the street pads back in before judging. (i.e. deal with it)
3. get another set of rotors and swap them out when you swap pads.

It doesn't take but another couple of minutes to swap rotors when you're changing pads, so you can swap them all at the track and head home.

FWIW, I use Hawk HPS on my G35 w/ Stoptechs and I'm perfectly happy with their performance on the street. not so impressed with the HP+ I used on it at the track, but I think that was an ABS issue, not a pad issue.

[0wn3r]

I don't have ABS to worry about heh. For the mushy part I can see the wear and re-bedding as a potential issue, but even before I put the carbotechs on I thought the HPSs were garbage...bedded in properly and comparing new rotors and axxis pads vs new rotors and HPSs. Just sayin', car felt like it stopped better. :)

In either case, I'm expecting these Wilwoods to be moar gooder.

[Bubba]

I was thinking of getting the HPS to go with this setup. I daily the car, catch an autoX when I can, and beat the piss out of it whenever I go out to play in an unfinished housing community in the middle of nowhere. Can't resist empty streets with no people walking them.

Anyone suggest a particular pad for my type of use?

[Beejis60]

Well... wilwood of course. PFC, Ferodo, Carbotech, and I'm sure that any company that makes a track pad has one for the superlite.

I checked carbotech and it looked like they didn't make any.... XP8's and AX6's being my favorite pads.

So please explain what make you hate hawk so much... curious here.

IMO, they would work better as a maxi pad than a brake pad. I've had HPS and HP+ on my 1800lb street/track integra and they were downright ass, then I tried HT 10s when borderline retiring my car to track only, jack freaking squat man. I guess you should keep in mind that when I drive any vehicle on public rights, I drive like an ass hole, whether my truck or my cars, so a fukking awesome pad is what I search. All hawks were just substandard to my preference; I've been happier with napa pads, actually.

I might give some PFC pads a go, all the baller Porsche and BMW guys rave about them.

Sounds like an interesting try; I was gonna go with ferodo's next.... but if the porsche guys really rave about them, I may try these instead. Should contact rauh-welt and see what he likes.

[Matt93SE]

With anything beefier than the HP+, they won't work on the street. you really need good sticky tires and a few laps on track to get them up to temp before they really start working.
Driving on the street, you simply won't get enough heat in them to make them work- no matter how much you beat on it.


As for the Ferodos, I ran the DS2500 for a long time. They make great street pads and worked fine as track pads but wore quickly. They are also very spongy as the pad material is slightly compressible. the harder you mash the pedal, the more they stop, but I've been able to hit the firewall with my pedal. I thought it was a failing master cylinder or a leaking piston, then I swapped to Hawk HT-10 and the pedal was rock hard again.

Carbotechs....
http://www.ctbrakes.com/calipers.asp?Make=Wilwood_Calipers&Model=Superlite_Bridgebolt_Caliper

[Bubba]

I'm just going to stick with the HPS pads then. I've got them in my stock calipers now and they're almost good enough to Autocross on so I imagine I won't need much more after I put the Wilwood's on.

[Def]

IMO, they would work better as a maxi pad than a brake pad. I've had HPS and HP+ on my 1800lb street/track integra and they were downright ass, then I tried HT 10s when borderline retiring my car to track only, jack freaking squat man. I guess you should keep in mind that when I drive any vehicle on public rights, I drive like an ass hole, whether my truck or my cars, so a fukking awesome pad is what I search. All hawks were just substandard to my preference; I've been happier with napa pads, actually.


You'll never get an HT-10 up to heat on the street unless you do like a 5-6 stop bedding procedure, then they'll fall out of temp in about 45-60 seconds.

I really like DTC-60s, but they're pretty rowdy on the street depending on how bedding in they are (fine most the times I'm driving them on a track weekend, but they are LOUD when they debed themselves). They are pretty soft at low temps, but are pretty high torque when up to temp. They also have the benefit of shooting loads of sparks out the wheels when braking at night.



Sounds like an interesting try; I was gonna go with ferodo's next.... but if the porsche guys really rave about them, I may try these instead. Should contact rauh-welt and see what he likes.

DS2500s can be tracked with low power, but probably around 200 rwhp you're going to destroy them in a few laps and they DO transfer pad material when they overheat. So you're going to probably ruin a set of rotors the minute you get them too hot. An NA KA will work with some ducting on these brakes IMO. Anything with a turbo needs a track pad at the track AND probably some form of ducting like SPL deflectors etc.

PFC only makes track pads, but supposedly the 06's (the fast wearing ones) feel absolutely amazing, but wear quickly. The 01's last longer, but supposedly feel really good as well.

[Beejis60]

With anything beefier than the HP+, they won't work on the street. you really need good sticky tires and a few laps on track to get them up to temp before they really start working.
Driving on the street, you simply won't get enough heat in them to make them work- no matter how much you beat on it.


As for the Ferodos, I ran the DS2500 for a long time. They make great street pads and worked fine as track pads but wore quickly. They are also very spongy as the pad material is slightly compressible. the harder you mash the pedal, the more they stop, but I've been able to hit the firewall with my pedal. I thought it was a failing master cylinder or a leaking piston, then I swapped to Hawk HT-10 and the pedal was rock hard again.

Carbotechs....
http://www.ctbrakes.com/calipers.asp?Make=Wilwood_Calipers&Model=Superlite_Bridgebolt_Caliper

I went to ht10s when moving to track events and no streeting.
Those ds2500s don't sound like the pad for me then.
FAAWWWWKKKKK I hate you. I'm kinda pissed now that I bought Evo clappers all around....

Oh well, bigger rotor, I guess, right? :p

You'll never get an HT-10 up to heat on the street unless you do like a 5-6 stop bedding procedure, then they'll fall out of temp in about 45-60 seconds.

I really like DTC-60s, but they're pretty rowdy on the street depending on how bedding in they are (fine most the times I'm driving them on a track weekend, but they are LOUD when they debed themselves). They are pretty soft at low temps, but are pretty high torque when up to temp. They also have the benefit of shooting loads of sparks out the wheels when braking at night.



DS2500s can be tracked with low power, but probably around 200 rwhp you're going to destroy them in a few laps and they DO transfer pad material when they overheat. So you're going to probably ruin a set of rotors the minute you get them too hot. An NA KA will work with some ducting on these brakes IMO. Anything with a turbo needs a track pad at the track AND probably some form of ducting like SPL deflectors etc.

PFC only makes track pads, but supposedly the 06's (the fast wearing ones) feel absolutely amazing, but wear quickly. The 01's last longer, but supposedly feel really good as well.

Please read above ;)
Am now interested in the pf changs 01's :p

am somewhat contemplating at least buying this group buy. Def is this GB full or are you not taking orders quite yet or what?
EDIT: You know if the 12.9" friction ring is compatible with your hat? I'm aware the bracket wouldn't work, but I'm just playing curious over here...

[Def]

The hat is 8x7, so any 8x7" rotor ring with 5/16" bolts (all Wilwoods and Colemans that I know of) will bolt to it no problems.

[Tenchuu]

paypal sent.

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. A.Brent
16. jham4x4
17. speed_demon
18. konjiki7
19. twistedsymphony
20. tenchuu

Total: 20

[McCoy]

I'll close it tomorrow (Tuesday 6-14) at midnight. So if you're on the fence, shoot me a PM!
just an FYI... The gb has been closed for a while.

[Def]

paypal sent.

1. jbennett58
2. 2_Liter_Turbo
3. KNerd *4 lug*
4. Bubba
5. Own3r
6. blackej7 *4 lug*
7. WorkinprogressK *4 lug*
8. Klys
9. galantx
10. BAMF_S14
11. onosqv
12. 95silvia14
13. SOneThreeCoupe
14. Jrocks13
15. A.Brent
16. jham4x4
17. speed_demon
18. konjiki7
19. twistedsymphony
20. tenchuu

Total: 20

Got it, thanks.

[Def]

just an FYI... The gb has been closed for a while.

Guard dog McCoy!!! :eek:


It's ok, he contacted me before he paid and we worked it out.

[Bubba]

LoL

I need car pr0n!

[Def]

Bad news guys. Aerospace work at the machine shop has forced us a few weeks behind schedule. We're going to attempt to run the parts fr essentially 16 hrs a day once a machine becomes available. Ill.give more updates once I get them. Sorry if this causes any problems with your plans but the parts will be made!

Jacob

[turtl631]

Hey, that's how it goes. Beater track parts are pretty low on the priority list anywhere I imagine...it's just cool that we can get these made at a reasonable cost, period.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

No worries from me. I still don't have the cash to buy the calipers atm, so they'd just be sitting on my desk anyways, ha ha.

[Tower240sx]

It seems everytime Jacob and I discuss a time slot that "looks open" for a group buy...cosmonaut sh1t hits the aerospace fan...I have 6 Mills 4 can handle these parts, all were idle for 3-4 months, the group buy got going again....BAM Boeing SDC gets 17 satellites ordered and we get a PO for 300 "long cluster fu*k widgets of doom" Every machine is tied up and our schedule dies, everything is MONTHS late at this point.

Sorry Guys,

Really I am

[Matt93SE]

But at least it's work, right?!

Glad I decided not to chop and cut on my rear uprights yet!

I find it funny you're building widgets of doom while all of NASA is packing their bags..

[0wn3r]

Tower, have you heard of EVMS?

[Def]

Tower, have you heard of EVMS?

Earned value management system?

[Tower240sx]

Nope but I knew a chic that had ESPN

[leetfade]

*facepalm*

[0wn3r]

Nope but I knew a chic that had ESPN

lol, damn...figured you would working in aerospace.

Earned value management system?

Yep! It's what I do at Pratt & Whitney...basically tell engineers they're behind schedule and over cost. lol, they hate me. :p

[Tower240sx]

Im not internal, we are a sub contractor

Engineers beg and worship at my feet lol.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I "kinda" work in the Aerospace industry, lol. We design and manufacture mission equipment for helicopters. Mainly fire fighting tanks and such. I'm new at it though, so I'm pretty green. Only been there 3 months, but it's a blast!

[Bubba]

Oh well, back to my wiring I guess.
I need to crush all of my aluminum cans and get them turned in now that I think of it. That might buy one caliper. LoL

[Beejis60]

But at least it's work, right?!

Glad I decided not to chop and cut on my rear uprights yet!

I find it funny you're building widgets of doom while all of NASA is packing their bags..

You're running 12.2's in the rear? Interesting.... why? Have an adjustable prop valve?

[Def]

Yep! It's what I do at Pratt & Whitney...basically tell engineers they're behind schedule and over cost. lol, they hate me. :p

Funny story, almost no one in the aerospace industry uses scheduling correctly. Drives me absolutely mad...


Zero slack time, and "milestones" are typically limited to "beginning a task" and "ending a task." Hard to gauge progress when your only milestone after starting is "I'm done!"

[0wn3r]

Funny story, almost no one in the aerospace industry uses scheduling correctly. Drives me absolutely mad...

Zero slack time, and "milestones" are typically limited to "beginning a task" and "ending a task." Hard to gauge progress when your only milestone after starting is "I'm done!"

Yeah you're tellin me! Hahaha. Yup we track those "milestones" that are usually like you said. When they give us that "begin" and "end" it's basically garbage in, garbage out. ...Which only makes it twice as hard on them half way through the task because they didn't take the time to build a legit schedule up front.

I've literally been told, "well if we put the milestones into our schedule then we'll be held accountable for them."

[Matt93SE]

I've literally been told, "well if we put the milestones into our schedule then we'll be held accountable for the delays that are caused by our boss not signing the PO to get the parts off to the machine shop before they got busy.
We're over budget because I quoted materials prices from 6 months ago when I needed the PO to go to the machinist in order to get our parts on schedule."

Fixed from an engineer on the other side of the fence. :cool:

[Tower240sx]

conflicting Quotes are a huge issue. every one spools up at once so i'll quote 6 weeks on 30 RFQ's...and either get 4 of then or 24 of them...schedule around that...try telling a tier 1 that their parts are held for another tier 1's crap and watch them hit the ceiling...

[0wn3r]

That's true Matt, then probably the same boss that does your review for a raise and tells you that you don't get one because you're behind schedule.

conflicting Quotes are a huge issue. every one spools up at once so i'll quote 6 weeks on 30 RFQ's...and either get 4 of then or 24 of them...schedule around that...try telling a tier 1 that their parts are held for another tier 1's crap and watch them hit the ceiling...

Yep, happens quite a bit. And of course MY tier 1 is better than the OTHER tier 1! I bet they only get annoying when people start jumping on their backs...I track schedule but I could care less how far behind or ahead they are because I'm not responsible for the budget. I just don't want anyone to half-@$$ their way out of working with me. :o

[SOneThreeCoupe]

... well, it's good to know that the aerospace industry functions exactly the same as the classic car restoration industry.

[Matt93SE]

That's true Matt, then probably the same boss that does your review for a raise and tells you that you don't get one because you're behind schedule.

Damn skippy.
In a company of 45 people with 12 in our office, that's exactly how it happens.
The guy that holds the equipment purse strings is the same guy I ask for a raise. so in his opinion, all I do is spend the company's money and then ask to be paid more to do it!
The part he refuses to admit is that after I get done spending the money, I'm the guy that goes into the field and installs the stuff he just bought, which in turn makes the money to pay his salary while he sits in an air conditioned office and signs POs. Maybe he should be asking ME for a raise? ;)

[Tower240sx]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/53ea18cb.jpg

Parts go from here

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/3e245376.jpg

To here

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/30c66104.jpg

And finally here, about 2/3 of the parts have gone thru process 1 will be done tonight or tomorrow night on this side. see the ones hiding on the bottom of the cart those are set aide for 4-lug...except the ones that say "others" those are for "others"

[NismoPlsr]

I are excite.

Looks like you skipped a couple steps in your pictures... Un-important question; how do you secure the blank for the initial rotor bolt circle? Through a rough drilled hole in the center or strategically placed machine clamps at the OD? I assume after that you just probe the plate fixture and run two hats at a time. I'm just curious, no worries.

[Bubba]

Mmmm.... yay for car porn!

I just hope I can get the money back together for the rest of the brake parts before everything ships.

[Tower240sx]

two clamps per rotor hat, then center hole, surface outer rim, 8x thru holes bolt thru those then remove innards, with chamfer etc when convenient

[NismoPlsr]

Sweet. They are looking great!

[BEXE]

These look amazing! Definitely sellin my z32 fronts when the next GB comes around.

[Bubba]

Hold on to those rears just in case though.

[Champagne]

Will patiently await next group buy.....

Please post in this thread so I get an email? Pretty please? Don't have time to come on here much with uni (mec eng) eating all my time...for some reason I study instead of reading forums.

cheers
-Evan

[Def]

I'll try to remember to post a reminder next time a batch is done.

I've spent about 20 hrs tracking down all the jetnuts for you kids. I ended up buying all the stock a Cessna and stock car supply place had and still couldn't find as many as I wanted to buy.

[WorkInProgressK]

Looks great! and obviously I just can't wait!

By the way, has anyone found or did a DIY on removing rear brake prop valve for S13 masters?

[klys]

wow I like the look of those hats!

[Def]

Just an update. Talked to Mike and he had a few suppliers give him the run around on trying to backorder some out of stock material for the brackets. That should be settled now, and they're machining starting next week.

I bought out the stock at two aircraft hardware suppliers for the needed jet nuts, so hardware kits are being put together (yes, I love counting to 16... and over and over...) and they should be going out as soon as the brackets are done and anodizing is completed.


Sorry for the delays everybody, but every step along the way has not been going smoothly this time around. We're trying to speed things along as much as possible, but we also want to put out a top quality product so no corners are being cut.

[Bubba]

Thanks for the update.
All I'm concerned with is precision and quality, that takes time so I was already expecting a bit of a wait. I'm sure everyone else here probably thinks the same.

I am itching to see pics of the anodized pieces though. Haha

[coredump]

Is it too late to pay $400 and get in on this? What would be the latest date you forsee being able to get in on the group buy? Looks like 16 kits have already been ordered but will there be any spares?

[Def]

There are no more spots in this GB as of right now. There might be some extra kits but that all depends on machining attrition.

[Def]

Had 29 bolts drop out of a McMaster box that was torn open then really taped up (thanks UPS! Always managing to screw stuff up!), so more bolts are on the way. Otherwise all the hardware is in place.

[konjiki7]

So the 29 bolts are the last frontier!?

[Tower240sx]

no.

[Def]

no.

As Mike so eloquently put, material suppliers threw quite a few wrenches into progress.


I also found as I was assembling the last sets that one of the bags of 5/16" bolts must have fallen out. A bag of 50 bolts isn't exactly small, so the whole box must have torn open before they taped it... UPS is on my chit list right about now...


At least McMaster is stepping up (although they should given how much $$$ this stuff costs...).

[konjiki7]

Thanks def/tower for putting this thing together! I can't wait to bolt these up!:D

[Tower240sx]

seriously F^ck ups, remember the custom hubcentric adapter/spacers, yeah that was great