monoblock vs 2 piece calipers article

[mmdb]

A discussion came about when I overheard 2 Zilvia premature ("premies") members discuss brake caliper design and what was better. I initially thought a monoblock design would be more beneficial but read the article below and share your thoughts.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_monobloc.shtml

btw where's my lower control arms?!

[Matt93SE]

I like Carroll Smith's "here's the facts, Jack." approach. It's also funny listening to people argue about grade 5 and grade 8 bolts and how a grade 5 bolt should be used on roll cages because they aren't "brittle" like a grade 8.
The fun part is that a grade 5 bolt will have yielded and completely failed before the grade 8 bolt even begins to deform. Which one would I rather use to hold a cage together? ;)

[Def]

I like Carroll Smith's "here's the facts, Jack." approach. It's also funny listening to people argue about grade 5 and grade 8 bolts and how a grade 5 bolt should be used on roll cages because they aren't "brittle" like a grade 8.
The fun part is that a grade 5 bolt will have yielded and completely failed before the grade 8 bolt even begins to deform. Which one would I rather use to hold a cage together? ;)

Most people have no idea what things like elongation to yield or yield strength actually mean. Zilvia in fact is probably the best place to go to get the absolute WRONG info on fastener info. Figure whatever answer you get there is 100000% wrong and you need to search out anything but that answer to be correct.

You're right in that you'd want Grade 8 bolts on a cage if it's bolted.


As for monoblock calipers, steel bolts are definitely MUCH stiffer than aluminum, but that doesn't mean that either design is necessarily stiffer than the other. It all depends on the design.

[Matt93SE]

The sad part is that I hear the grade 5 thing from guys that should know better. people that have been production & GT racing for 10+ years, and work in the oil production industry where they specify hardware for all kinds of pumps and process skids. I guess they've always had enough of a safety factor they've been okay.

[Def]

The sad part is that I hear the grade 5 thing from guys that should know better. people that have been production & GT racing for 10+ years, and work in the oil production industry where they specify hardware for all kinds of pumps and process skids. I guess they've always had enough of a safety factor they've been okay.

The term "brittle" gets thrown around a lot for metals when that is not their behavior at room temperature or higher at all.

[Matt93SE]

Just because a material is harder than another doesn't mean it's brittle. too bad others don't know the diff.

[Def]

Yea, there's a big difference between a brittle material which is much stronger in tension than compression (like concrete or ceramics), and one which is trading less elongation before yielding for a higher YS and UTS.

In general, you should be choosing materials for fasteners on your car by the YS, but people try to have all sorts of crazy ideas they try to apply to "make sense" of something that's very well documented but a bit technical in nature.

[Om1kron]

hahaha ****ing nerds!!!! This was the funniest conversation ever to witness.

[Tower240sx]

Now send that to clear corners mike so he can officially concede the point to me.

If i was a loser for having the conversation (and I concede I am) what does that make the listeners...

Exposure to Zilvians for prolonged periods gave me a migraine im still trying to get over lol...seriously

[old_s13]

im faded.....................
feelin x-rated..............

its mister nasty time!


oooooooooooooh... mister nasty time!

[old_s13]

hahaha ****ing nerds!!!! This was the funniest conversation ever to witness.

personally, i thought the full race geoff discussion you two piss-wads were having was quite amusing.... but what do i know.

[Tower240sx]

man if your piss wads up you need more fluids that **** just supposed to flow

[Matt93SE]

WTF are these people and why are they here?
Motion to ban since neither have contributed anything but trash..

[old_s13]

WTF are these people and why are they here?
Motion to ban since neither have contributed anything but trash..

im sorry, matt93se? or matt93le..?

anyway

were you expecting some actual, useful and informative information? i am sorry to disappoint you. i'll add something useful:

if you guys run multi-piston calipers, either 2-piece or monoblock. be sure to use some high quality pads. keep away from the cheap stuff you see at pep boys, such as their raybestos "life-time" warranty pads. they're not good.


oh, and their shims suck too.

[Tower240sx]

Hey come now,

I told you where your drain plug was.

(oh wait you mean those guys, sorry I left the door open)

[mmdb]

WTF are these people and why are they here?
Motion to ban since neither have contributed anything but trash..

I feel a turning out has come about for Nissan Road Racing. I vote matt93se for president!

[Matt93SE]

Just give me the ban stick. I've been keeping the guys on Maxima.org in line since 2000. i even have my own smiley.. http://smiliesftw.com/x/gtfo2.gif

[old_s13]

Just give me the ban stick. I've been keeping the guys on Maxima.org in line since 2000. i even have my own smiley.. http://smiliesftw.com/x/gtfo2.gif

wow... maxima.org? you're dealing with the pinnacle members of society there.

thats a tough job, matt93xe.

[Colorado S14]

Throw him in the volcano.

[e1_griego]

Why would you show up just to **** on threads here?

What's the purpose?

You bitch about how bad the kids on zilvia are, and then show up here and troll?

[Om1kron]

Why would you show up just to **** on threads here?

What's the purpose?

You bitch about how bad the kids on zilvia are, and then show up here and troll?

I guess he was still in "we're in person mode and it's socially acceptable to continue our pissing match about brake calipers on this forum."

Personally I run a Willwood 4 piston BBK and could care less about the subject of their conversation. A simple "my brakes are better than yours" conversation at a bbq recently turned into an actually intelligible discussion.

This thread is more like candles on the cake.

anyway, back to our serious programming here.

[e1_griego]

Clearly there was a lot of context missing then...

[Om1kron]

Clearly there was a lot of context missing then...

Doesn't help that some random member came in adding nuclear waste to the thread, Mike has a mouth on him and will always try to get in the last word. So I guess maybe the long time members could not be so elitist in the future to new members (besides Mike) lol.

Regardless I don't want to continue bantering off the topic at hand.

Wayne

[mmdb]

anyway, anyone familiar or have experience with "performance brakes"? their advertisement states a few tenths improvement per lap which is pretty bold.

in my experience with stoptech, they're rotors are awesome. very minimal wear for the punishment I put em through. I've never replaced a rotor yet. though, I've noticed the bridge used in the caliper has developed some slack. makes me conclude the caliper is flexing or slightly has deformed.

btw we should delete page two... lol...

[Matt93SE]

It's not a huge comparison, but the difference in flex between a wilwood forged superlite and a forged dynalite is pretty impressive. The superlite is MUCH stiffer, but I still have no problems with the dynalites.

I can't imagine how you could shave 'a few tenths' a lap just by going to a stiffer caliper. it's kinda like a strut brace- it changes the feel of the driving, but it doesn't make the car measurably pull any more lateral Gs.

[Def]

It's not a huge comparison, but the difference in flex between a wilwood forged superlite and a forged dynalite is pretty impressive. The superlite is MUCH stiffer, but I still have no problems with the dynalites.

I can't imagine how you could shave 'a few tenths' a lap just by going to a stiffer caliper. it's kinda like a strut brace- it changes the feel of the driving, but it doesn't make the car measurably pull any more lateral Gs.

I think they're saying their brake kit as a whole will drop lap times, not just "caliper flex." There is probably some merit with the larger rotors/stiffer calipers/nice pads being easy to modulate. Supposedly PFC01 pads are pretty amazing for feel, but wear out quickly.

As for the strut tower brace - it can definitely drop lap times if it keeps you from losing camber on the outside front tire as the chassis flexes.