Sway bar setup.

[iitywygms]

Hi all.
Yeah I am a newbie. I searched but could not find an answer to my question.
I have a 93 240. Sportline springs with tokico blue. I basically replaced the whole suspension with fully adjustable stuff. I have the strut bars, fender braces, braces everywhere. I am running 17 inch rims with 225 tires.
Anyway, on to my question. I have read somewhere that running minimal or no rear sway bar with a super stiff front is the way to go with the s13. I have progress sways front and rear. I have the rear at the softest setting and the front in the middle setting. Is this basically the best setup? I know other things should be considered, but as a starting point, is this a good setting for the sway bars?

[racepar1]

It all depends on what you want from the car. Try the front bar on it's stiffest setting and see how you like it. Try it on it's softest and see how you like it. If full soft on your rear bar is where you like it then you need a softer one, try dis-connecting it and see how you like that. Most guys run either stock or no rear sway bar with a larger than stock front bar.

[iitywygms]

Thanks for the reply. It seems the most common setup is like I currently have. I want the best possible grip so I guess the best answer will come from time on the track.

[iitywygms]

Well I am talking to myself. I did find that running the progress bars with medium up front and full stiff in back was bad. Real twitchy. I was sideways with the slightest throttle input. Now I am running full stiff in front and lowest in back. Car holds like it is on rails. Tomorrow I go to the track so I will post back here and let myself know how it went.

[iitywygms]

Well I think I have the best setup. I took second in my class. Beat 14 other drivers in that class. The car just holds so nice. If it start to push I can throttle it and get it right. I have to try real hard to get the ass to kick out, but if I want it will. I am just stoked about this. First time I have run in two years, and to come in second, by .01 sec. Makes my day.

[a_ahmed]

Speaking of swaybars I was just gona make a new thread... whats the best place to get whiteline s13 front and rear swaybars? Price wise.

[spool_sample]

Speaking of swaybars I was just gona make a new thread... whats the best place to get whiteline s13 front and rear swaybars? Price wise.

SPL Parts is the cheapest I've seen so far.

www.splparts.com

[a_ahmed]

I just remembered the whiteline one has that weird endlink setup.. argh... hmm that sucks.. unless there was an ultra cheap option for a pillowball endlink.. spl charges more for the endlinks they have than the actual swaybar.. blah

[spool_sample]

I just remembered the whiteline one has that weird endlink setup.. argh... hmm that sucks.. unless there was an ultra cheap option for a pillowball endlink.. spl charges more for the endlinks they have than the actual swaybar.. blah

Make your own. It's maybe $50 in parts from McMaster.

Look at the "Swaybar Shootout" thread, PJ listed the parts he used to build his.

[RAGE]

Speaking of swaybars I was just gona make a new thread... whats the best place to get whiteline s13 front and rear swaybars? Price wise.

http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/suspensionbars.html

[Riggle]

Back from the dead....

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I/we can just add to an existing one.

I had a question regarding the rear sway bar setup. I know that most everyone runs either a stock/HICAS/no rear sway bar, but WHY?

I suppose I understand the principle of keeping the rear tires stuck to the ground regardless of body roll/pitch, but does anyone have a scientific/detailed explanation of why on the S13 chassis this is the optimal setup?

I just like to understand WHY I am modifying my car a certain way, not just taking peoples word for it. Technical jargon welcome.

Another reason I am wondering is because I have a Cusco rear sway bar just sitting here in my garage and I want to put it on...the power of christ compels me, but I know I might be hurting my rear end characteristics.

Thanks in advance,
Ian

[a_ahmed]

Alot of people run cusco, whiteline, tanabe and progress bars.

Jason Rhodes actually had a largus in the rear (or was it arc pipe rear, they are also thick like largus and hollow).

So... the whole don't run a rear swaybar thing has been a patch for other issues as most have noted as of late... I hated running no rear swaybar. Car was lazy, all over the place, understeering like a @#*( turning into snap over steer. Going back to a hicas rear bar was great for me... in fact I want to get a tanabe rear in conjuction with my front.

A friend of mine made a good point... wouldn't the companies that make these products at least put some thought into designing bars? I mean... if they make a front and rear bar.. they probably thought about how these things should work in conjuction. Now of course this doesn't take into account OTHER factors (for example was it JUST designed for stock suspension or our spring rates or whatever).

I'll see how it goes for me... More of a thing doesn't necessarily mean better so err.. we'll see. It's adjustable so I can play with that...

There's only one way to truly find out what works for YOU.. and thats testing it out... alot of ppl were preaching go no rear swaybar... i did... hated it. No more. It's just a matter of testing what works and doesn't work for each person/individual car.

[Equinox]

I'd imagine the reason it works for some people is because the front roll center migrates south with body roll and hence loads up the front tires even more. Putting a thicker front bar resists this roll and migration. The problem is much, much less of an issue up rear with the multi-link setup.

Whiteline here design their swaybars around a ride height substantially higher than anyone I know with a Silvia runs. Their recommended height has about an inch clearence between the front tire and the front guard.

[Mr. J]

I am considering sway bars and would like to know what peoples prefrences and experiences are with the various brands because I don't know whether to go with Whiteline or Progress, etc or whether to buy the front only (I already have a HICAS bar in the rear because my Silvia has HICAS).

[WorkInProgressK]

I love my new front whiteline. The brackets are POS compared to the progress ones. But the bar is great.

[BeerBringer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we might need to make a difference between roadrace cars and auto-x cars here.
As auto-x is run more in lower gears you will have more wheel torque. To counter power oversteering all the time people run soft rear sways to make the rear bite better.

I have only played with the damping on my car but what works better for roadracing sucks for auto-x. In roadracing I run more damping in the rear than in the front to dial out understeer a bit. In auto-x I run low damping in the rear to get more rear traction.

[mmdb]

Back from the dead....

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I/we can just add to an existing one.

I had a question regarding the rear sway bar setup. I know that most everyone runs either a stock/HICAS/no rear sway bar, but WHY?

Sway bars are used to keep the roll angle of a car within a reasonable range by preventing excess roll. The tighter/slower the course a thicker roll bar in the rear is required to promote rotation via oversteer and deter positive camber conditions. The faster the course the less oversteer/rotation is required as it can be very difficult to control a car at high speeds.

Ultimately, it is required to understand which bars are used on which type of course with which conditions, which tires, the amount of power, the amount of roll, driving style, etc. It's very difficult to find a "one size fits all" solution.

In my experience, I jumped down from a Progress solid bar to a 22mm Whiteline bar. This was because of the mild snap oversteer characteristics accompanied by having a thicker bar that loaded the rear tire too quickly (tires hate to be loaded quickly). A softer bar made me feel the onset of oversteer much more slower and allowed me to control the car much better. I'd recommend having a few different bars handy to tailor your car to each particular condition. This is assuming you already have your spring rates dialed in.

[logr]

But won't a large bar in the rear pick a rear tire up on tight corners, as in autox?

[stewiefied]

I think he was talking about tighter road courses. I agree with beer bringer, in auto-x were constantly at the limit and 2nd gear torque at the wheels is a huge difference from 3rd or 4th.

[Longfellow]

I run a progress bar in the front and stock bar in the rear. I might upgrade to something larger once I get the spherical bearings put in the uprights. Right now I like the set up.

[logr]

I forget what my front one is but it is silver, huge and hollow. It works great but the rear one that came with it picks up my rear tire too easily. I just found an S14 hollow rear one and it seems pretty good on 450# front and 300# rear springs. Traction is still an issue but with only 275 tires, it probably always will be. Spring rates are always a question with me, stiffer, softer, heck I don't know what is best. I have wondered about using softer springs and a stiffer bar in the rear. Not sure.

[Scores240]

Well I think I have the best setup. I took second in my class. Beat 14 other drivers in that class. The car just holds so nice. If it start to push I can throttle it and get it right. I have to try real hard to get the ass to kick out, but if I want it will. I am just stoked about this. First time I have run in two years, and to come in second, by .01 sec. Makes my day.


Thats cool. What kind of event was it?

[Def]

But won't a large bar in the rear pick a rear tire up on tight corners, as in autox?

Total lateral weight transfer should be the same between a car with a huge sway bar and one without. The one without will just have a larger roll angle.

I think some people just run into an issue where they have a lack of droop travel with their stiff springs and it becomes really pronounced when the car rolls over and the inside wheel is "held up" against the springs more than it would be if it could naturally droop down a bit. Not that this is actually providing any meaningful weight transfer over there, it's more of making the situation more apparent to the driver/spectators IMO.

[josh18_2k]

sorta related:

with a rear bar and big v710's i get hopping from the rear while turning and trail braking (autox situation). ive seen it from the outside- the rear inside just bounces on/off the ground through the corner. disconnect the bar, it goes away.
i have an FC, but the principle should be the same... any idea what thats about?

Hopping aside, I'm still happier with no rear bar.

[a_ahmed]

This whole disconnect the rear bar thing really seems more autox oriented... sucks ass on track... I tried it as advised and I didn't like it one bit (on track).

[logr]

I have wondered if it might be a diagonal pogo effect from the front spring rate not being strong enough. The front right corner goes low enough that the left rear lifts or at least reduces the force on the left rear and vice versa. Combine that with what Def said about stiff rear springs and not enough droop and you get a tire that is skipping along the surface. Add to that a helical that goes open without some force to multiply and you get a car that works better with no rear bar.