back door fmic

[Steve_S14]

ive talked with a couple locals who have ran backdoor fmic (mounting intecooler where radiator is, and backing up radiator a couple of inches) and the word is that response is much better and makes for more fun of a drive.

full race sells a kit
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=834_837_859&products_id=1015&osCsid=c5764e00b71451667cf87f459a77c615


but its rather expensive. anyone know where i could find a QUALITY intercooler core that would be used for such a set up. ive looked on ebay and froogle.com, but all i can find are garbage chinese radiators cores with end tanks labeled as intercoolers

[2Fass240us]

What's up with all the IC's supporting 7 billion HP?

I like the fact that they're producing one, but only need something large enough to support 400-ish crank.

[Steve_S14]

i think i finally found something today, right after i posted actually...

vibrant makes a really nice bar and plate intercooler,
part number
12800

this is what ill be using for my setup. i found it locally for $270cdn.

Vibrant universal intercooler. Measures 18" wide by 6 1/2" high by 3 1/4" thick. Overall length with end tanks is 26". Features 2 1/2" diameter inlet and outlet that is center mounted and is rated for applications with up to 350 horsepower.

[Epstein]

Garrett and Turbonetics (Spearco) also make cores. The Spearco catalog I saw also listed units with endtanks, like the Vibrant ones..

On a related note, I saw that Garrett sells air-to-water cores. I've always been intrigued by these systems, and I'm not afraid of plumbing.

[Steve_S14]

i think that air-water is better for applications such as drag racing, where there wont be a ton of air keeping the motor cool like there would be in road racing...

[BigOdom1]

here it comes. they do really well in drag racing where the water is actually iced down. over time you would need a system to cool the water otherwise the effect of warm water is only another coefficient between the cool air outside the ic and the HotCharge air inside the ic. but go for it.

i dont know much more than that as it is the basics from a discussion on another forum im on.


as far as a backdoor kit, noone but fullrace has one that i know of. but it should be pretty easy to get a core and the endtanks you would like and then fab it all up.

[Steve_S14]

as far as a backdoor kit, noone but fullrace has one that i know of. but it should be pretty easy to get a core and the endtanks you would like and then fab it all up.


YEA, ill be picking up the vibrant intercooler as soon as i can dig my car out of the snowbank where its been parked for winter.

ill try and get some pics up when i have it done

[2Fass240us]

Steve, that looks perfect. I forget how wide the radiator is, but I assume you would need 90* couplings to get things in the right place.

Keep us in the loop...the Vibrant one looks like a good fit.

[Steve_S14]

Steve, that looks perfect. I forget how wide the radiator is, but I assume you would need 90* couplings to get things in the right place.

Keep us in the loop...the Vibrant one looks like a good fit.

Ive been searching for a couple months now, i toyed with the idea of the mishimoto ebay intercooler, but the vibrant one does look decent


since the vibrant is 26" end tank to end tank, i believe the rad is only 24", ive got a guy with a mandrel bender to fab it all up for me, so the bends shouldnt be an issue.

i found a thread on freshalloy where a guy used an OE evo intercooler, looked pretty decent too, but imo the intercooler is a bit too large

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=180555&highlight=backdoor

[Epstein]

I think you really need to define what is "backdoor". The full-race unit is in the usual FMIC location, but with ports at the top of the endtanks instead of the bottom. That lets you run the pipes through the rad support behind the headlights instead of winding around through the wheel wells. All of these other DIY setups are running the IC behind the rad support, where the radiator goes. One is a lot harder to do than the other.

Another good example of a radiator relocated IC setup is Dave Coleman's from 5 years ago. Project Silvia from SCC.

Here:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0306scc_project_nissan_silvia_part_2/index.html

and water mister here:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0401scc_project_nissan_silvia_part_v/index.html

[Steve_S14]

i didnt realize the full race was still in the standard location, im talking about putting it behind the rad support and relocating my rad about 3" towards the motor (since i dont have the oem clutch fan)


thanks for the links!!



I think you really need to define what is "backdoor". The full-race unit is in the usual FMIC location, but with ports at the top of the endtanks instead of the bottom. That lets you run the pipes through the rad support behind the headlights instead of winding around through the wheel wells. All of these other DIY setups are running the IC behind the rad support, where the radiator goes. One is a lot harder to do than the other.

Another good example of a radiator relocated IC setup is Dave Coleman's from 5 years ago. Project Silvia from SCC.

Here:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0306scc_project_nissan_silvia_part_2/index.html

and water mister here:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0401scc_project_nissan_silvia_part_v/index.html

[turtl631]

I had the intercooler on my KA-T like that- in place of stock rad, with rad moved back. It's a lot of work and you need to be judicious in ducting it. This time I'm just going with the standard front mount, FWIW. I thought about a backdoor setup but couldn't find an affordable backdoor IC that looked like it would fit well. The volume of air in a few extra feet of piping can't make that big a difference- think about the displacement of the engine and how quickly it's turning.

[Def]

I think it makes a difference, but like you said Ross, it can't be a "huge" one. It's a lot of work and means you can't use off the shelf piping, which is a huge benefit when it comes to saving time when doing manifold etc. changes.

[Steve_S14]

new development

i was on the phone with my mechanic and he was extremely excited to tell me that he found the "PERFECT" intercooler for me. he said its rated 300-350whp and exactly the size we need to do the rad mount. he wasnt 100% of the name, but said that it is an apexi/greddy copy and one of the best he has seen, he plans on ordering 20+ more given their superb quality.

i should have more info towards wednesday of this week, ill keep you posted

[2Fass240us]

Definitely let us know.

I am not doing it so much for response as I am to get the intercooler up away from the ground in the event of an agricultural excursion.

[Steve_S14]

Definitely let us know.

I am not doing it so much for response as I am to get the intercooler up away from the ground in the event of an agricultural excursion.
Ahh nice, thats another good reason,

also its a bit stealthier since you wont see it in the front bumper, you dont have to cut your bumper beam, and you can keep your oem foglights (in the case of my s14)

[Steve_S14]

dropped the car off at the mechanics today, should be getting it back by the weekend (I HOPE)

if so ill post up some pics, either this weekend or next week during the week. he said the intercooler setup should take about 3 hours total to install. including moving back the rad and fabricating brackets. im very anxious!!! however i wont have completely accurate before/after scenario since im going from a stock sidemount t25 to a gt28r with backdoor fmic

[2Fass240us]

however i wont have completely accurate before/after scenario since im going from a stock sidemount t25 to a gt28r with backdoor fmic
Loser. You shoulda kept the stock turbo setup, of for no other reason than to get some quantitative data in favor of the backdoor FMIC.

[Steve_S14]

Loser. You shoulda kept the stock turbo setup, of for no other reason than to get some quantitative data in favor of the backdoor FMIC.

i know im a loser, and im sorry i didnt, but im pretty strapped for cash, and i cant afford to dyno the car twice and then pay labor again to change the turbo when my mechanic is going to be right there anyway!

btw my mechanic has been swapping sr's for a long time now, he drifts professionally here in canada, and he told me that he ran a backdoor setup on the SR20 that he swapped into a skyline gts-t which he sold. he said that the backdoor setup on the sr20 was by far the best one hes driven

[Epstein]

I'm sure that there is enough T28 data out there to make some good comparisons.

I've got no plans to get rid of my HKS typeS core, but I am interested in your results. As far as off the shelf piping, as soon as you leave the GT28R style compressor housing, you'll be doing something custom anyways. That includes virtually all KA people.

[Steve_S14]

talked to mechanic today, he's installing the intercooler now, turbo is ready to go in, should be ready late tonight, ill be picking her up tomorrow either before or after work

ill update with my 100% fail proof ass dyno asap

[Steve_S14]

got the car this morning, drives great

it doesnt pull as hard as i would like down low, but my mechanic thinks the timing is a bit retarded, we'll adjust it soon. ill post up pics tonight or tomorrow, but it first perfectly and looks GREAT

[Epstein]

and the pics are... where? :)

[Steve_S14]

got the car this morning, drives great

it doesnt pull as hard as i would like down low, but my mechanic thinks the timing is a bit retarded, we'll adjust it soon. ill post up pics tonight or tomorrow, but it first perfectly and looks GREAT

Im at work right now, i picked up the car and came straight here, if its still bright out when i get home ill snap some tonight

[Steve_S14]

here are the pics as promised
engine bays a bit dirty, she's been sitting since october

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/fmic/intercoolersilvia2008002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/fmic/intercoolersilvia2008001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/fmic/intercoolersilvia2008003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/fmic/intercoolersilvia2008004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/fmic/intercoolersilvia2008005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/fmic/intercoolersilvia2008006.jpg

[turtl631]

That's basically how my KA-T setup was. For better cooling, you'll want to duct it all, or at the very least block the gaps around the radiator with weather stripping.

[Epstein]

****! That's only spaced back about an inch! Nice job.

[Steve_S14]

yea, he did an amazing job, im extremely happy with it.

[2Fass240us]

yea, he did an amazing job, im extremely happy with it.
I'm not. The crossover pipe looks like balls. :D

[Steve_S14]

I'm not. The crossover pipe looks like balls. :D

well, actually, it looks better than it did, since it used to be rusted and he went out of his way to paint it :D
you can sort of see it here
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Steve_S14/sherunsfireworks010.jpg

[2Fass240us]

Any plans to upgrade the radiator? I have a known good SR one in my car (had it pressure & flow-tested), but it would still make me nervous to put an IC in front of it, particularly since it gets kinds hot down here.

[Steve_S14]

Any plans to upgrade the radiator? I have a known good SR one in my car (had it pressure & flow-tested), but it would still make me nervous to put an IC in front of it, particularly since it gets kinds hot down here.

no plans yet, im going to see how it runs in the summer, dont forget im up in canada, so its not QUITE as hot as some places in the states

we'll have SOME 90-100 degree temps, but the average is usually in the 80's

although after this winter, i have no clue what to expect in summer, lol

[2Fass240us]

Damn your Canadian weather, floppy head, and beady eyes. :)

I still chuckle at the use of the phrase "back door" when referring to IC placement. :D

[Steve_S14]

Damn your Canadian weather, floppy head, and beady eyes. :)

I still chuckle at the use of the phrase "back door" when referring to IC placement. :D

HEY! my head only flops when im mad, and my eyes arent THHHAT beady
head over to carolinanissans and ask matt (Zenki96) he and a couple other guys met me once at some random meet when i was in town