sr20goofus's Track experiences....

[sr20goofus]

This thread is to document my first year as an instructor and adjustments to my car from its current condition.

This year i have moved away from my old v-mount and up to a FMIC with Koyo Rad, installed cams, injetors and an SAFC. Dyno tuned for 270whp and 220 torque max (with 200 torque at redline). Car is very responsive and accelerates all the way to redline, no deadzone.

I installed Ohlins shocks with 350/250 lb springs and HKS camber plates. and ES Bushings. I used to run Carbotech XP12 brake pads, now im moving over to Cobalt XR2's, and brake ducting (not until after this first event though).

UPDATE!!!!

Suspension is done
Camber - -2* F/R
Caster - 6.5* F (not adjustable)
Toe - 0* F/R

all new ES bushings, sway bar links, Ohlins suspension and soon to be Cobalt XR2 brake pads. We will see how the suspension feels once i can get out on the road later today or tomarrow and moe it around a little to findout if there is anything wrong. I should be just fine, but i cant make that promise to myself anf just hope for the best.


I am attending the NASA MA instructor clinic next friday and instruting for my first time that very same weekend at VIR. I am very excited and nervous at the same time. We ill see how everything goes, i should have some good video from Sat/Sun as well as Traqmate Data Aquisition for helping me improve my line and corner speeds, etc...

I picked up a sponsor somehow this year for a nice discount on all parts (brakes especially) and possibly tires if im lucky. I have new logos to be installed after this event to help dress up the outside of the car a little bit.


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Casey.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0131.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0134.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Track%20shots/IMG_9602copy.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Track%20shots/IMG_5730.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Track%20shots/IMG_5703.jpg



Be ready for alot of information after next weekend. Its going to be good.

[2Fass240us]

Sweetballs...looking forward to your impressions of next weekend.

[sr20goofus]

with the ohlins, car sits about the same, just now i have alot more front camber, i may out the tophats at about -3* i think, but i may not end up having moerw than -2.5*

i will also me playing witht he shock adjustments alot, that should be nice, starting off soft on friday and slowly making them stiffer through the weekend.

[Epstein]

That's an odd looking dyno plot. More details on the setup? You're just using SAFC for tuning?

I like the IC setup. I wish I could axe my pop-ups and do the same!

[a_ahmed]

Why such low spring rates? I'm sure you could go higher a bit... Almost stock, well not really... but.. well compared to what most people run, very low, my current crappy springs are around that and its soft and wobbly with body roll as is...

[sr20goofus]

That's an odd looking dyno plot. More details on the setup? You're just using SAFC for tuning?

I like the IC setup. I wish I could axe my pop-ups and do the same!



S15 turbo
12psi boost (HKS actuator)
STI 540cc injectors
BC 264 cams
full exhaust
9.0:1 CR
walbro fuel pump
SAFC 1

not much else that matters for power.

[sr20goofus]

Why such low spring rates? I'm sure you could go higher a bit... Almost stock, well not really... but.. well compared to what most people run, very low, my current crappy springs are around that and its soft and wobbly with body roll as is...

its the highest available for stock style struts. i have been running tein s-techs for 3 years, no need to jump up to like 8k springs if i dont even know if i like them or not. plus i need to sell these and get coilovers. Until someone wants to buy these Ohlins, im stuck since they cant be fitted with GC sleeves or anything.

[ecugrad]

Good luck next weekend at Instructor school!!! Dan Unkfer is the best in the business but will work your ass off to earn your instructor status.

I was going to take it back in February but I just cant find anything to keep my groceries down while in the passenger seat :(

[sr20goofus]

My brother had the same problem, but only on the Summit Point Shendoah track, no where else, weird right. So far i have done ridalongs on many tracks and differetn driving styles, i still think it will be weird to be in car with a complete nood than an experienced, but i think i can make it work, for the good of my wallet.

[ecugrad]

My brother had the same problem, but only on the Summit Point Shendoah track, no where else, weird right. So far i have done ridalongs on many tracks and differetn driving styles, i still think it will be weird to be in car with a complete nood than an experienced, but i think i can make it work, for the good of my wallet.

VIR Full/North/South/Grand East = Barf city for me on all of them
Rockingham = No problem

I'm just weird like that.

[2Fass240us]

I assume you keep your faceshield open then? :)

[ecugrad]

I assume you keep your faceshield open then? :)

There is a helmet at the VIR karting track that is probably a bit less "clean" after I karted for about 20mins.

I took the face shield off my Bell M2 :(

[sr20goofus]

ok guys bad news, i was all ready to get sweet sweet video and traqmate data. Turns out my brother took the video camera with him to chicago...he moved so there is no chance of me getting it back. BUT.....i did find his traqmate stuff which i will be setting up in my car once the friday instructor clinic is all finished.

this shoudl be some very neat and interesting data of me at VIR with the new setup, mind you i may be a little slower than previously because i have a touch more power and different suspension than my last 6 visits...hopefully we can enjoy the information that is the glorious traqmate though....

[2Fass240us]

Buy a camera. You can get a nice MiniDV one for $200-ish.

[Def]

Someone on Bimmerforums posted up a camera that took SD cards and did MPEG4 compression natively I think. The resolution and lens wasn't the best, but I think it was right around $120ish(been a while, might be comlpetely different now) and actually looked pretty decent. A 4GB SD card seemed like enough if you dumped it at the end of each day.

I don't know if I'd want tape in a high vibration environment.

[ecugrad]

Someone on Bimmerforums posted up a camera that took SD cards and did MPEG4 compression natively I think. The resolution and lens wasn't the best, but I think it was right around $120ish(been a while, might be comlpetely different now) and actually looked pretty decent. A 4GB SD card seemed like enough if you dumped it at the end of each day.

I don't know if I'd want tape in a high vibration environment.

Aiptek

I have one and its pretty damn decent

http://nissanroadracing.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114

That was shot with teh $200 model that is now a bit cheaper.

[a_ahmed]

Now even HD portable cameras are decently priced, mini-dv cams are dirt cheap can always go to craigslist and look or used ones.

[2Fass240us]

I don't know if I'd want tape in a high vibration environment.
It's more than fine. I've never even had problems with the stabilization feature like some folks have.

And the quality is unreal for what I paid. Funny though, since it only gets murderated when you upload it to Google.

[2Fass240us]

Oh yeah, and Casey's cheap as hell. He spends multiple thousands of dollars on car stuff, and I'd be willing to bet $10 he won't buy a camera. Any takers?

[sr20goofus]

Andy i was leaving for the track when i made the post about the camera. Finding one on line and purchasing was not an option before the event..

[2Fass240us]

Andy i was leaving for the track when i made the post about the camera. Finding one on line and purchasing was not an option before the event..
Nvm then. :D

Step 3: Smack Adam for taking it.

[sr20goofus]

Step 4: Be ready to have Casey as your instructor :)


Certified NASA instructor BITCHES!!!!

signed up to instructed for 4 more events this year already, (ITR Expo, Trackdaze event, PCA event and a NASA event)

[sr20goofus]

welp here is the bad news then....

Through my track time on friday and saturday i had a few issues show up on track with my engine. Lower rad hose popped off halfway through friday on track, fun experience. Popped the hood to show large coolant mess (to be expected) and large oil mess on drivers side of engine.

after cleanup and refill of coolant, no oil leaks of anyind decide to show up (weird) and coolant will no pressurize to the point of popping off with engien at 5k rpm while parked in the paddock. So i go out on track saturday morning everythign is fine. Then i go out again and decide to pit eary just to check on everything, sure as hell the oil mess is back and a coolant hose is almost popped off again, wait for the engine to cool down, release the rad cap.....HUGE burst of air comes out....

I am bleeding boost into the cooling system, which is why the problem is only presistant on track while engine is under load. And the oil leak occurs when the coolant system get sooo pressurized that the extra pressure affects teh oil system somehow and bleeds oil out from under the exhaust manifold.

SOOOOOO new headgasket, new ARP headstuds (to be safe), and Headchecking to be sure of no cracks or warpage. Gimme like 2 weeks and ill be up and running again ready for my many other tracks events at Summit Point, VIR and Mid-Ohio to come this year.


due to the massive amount of down time and troubleshooting i didnt bother installing te traqmate since my times were just me getting used to the car firsthing friday and driving in the ran on saturday. Next events will be better once hte pressure problems are all fixed. I am thinking cosworth headgasket with the arpheadstuds....or Apexi 0.8mm....one or the other.

[ecugrad]

Step 4: Be ready to have Casey as your instructor :)


Certified NASA instructor BITCHES!!!!

signed up to instructed for 4 more events this year already, (ITR Expo, Trackdaze event, PCA event and a NASA event)

Congrats!!! You seem to have a GREAT attitude to be an instructor.

[Your Mom]

just don't get a greddy HG.

[veilside180sx]

Can't go wrong with either the Cosworth, or the Apexi. (I have a Cosworth and Brian has an Apexi=)

[McCoy]

Good luck with getting the car back together and running solid again on track! I've been there a few times and it sure does feel good when the small issues are behind you :)

[2Fass240us]

Sorry you had those problems Gaysey, and I hope you get them worked out.

[sr20goofus]

should be worked out in like 2 weeks or so, and it will be the only change besides trying to get my hands on more used r-comps.....

[sr20goofus]

Cosworth headgasket, OEM waterpump, valvecover gasket and valve seals on the way.....

head is being checked for flatness and pressure checked for cracks, possibly shaved if not flat. Car will be back togeather in a week hoperfully ready to run and get out on teh track in may.

I am signing up for more track events soon.....

May
17-18 - Summit Point Shenendoah
23-25 - VIR Full

June
21-22 - Summit Point Main

July
19-20 - GINGERMAN RACEWAY

August
Mid-Ohio Raceway

October
4-5 - Summit Point Shenendoah
11-12 - Summit Point Main

November
1-2 - Summit Point Shenendoah

[turtl631]

You're driving out to Gingerman? I run there sometimes. I might have to pony up for a real DE instead of just doing open lapping evenings all summer.

[sr20goofus]

You're driving out to Gingerman? I run there sometimes. I might have to pony up for a real DE instead of just doing open lapping evenings all summer.

Its not official yet, but i will be signing up for the Advanced 2 group with this event. http://www.wmhm.org/.

[turtl631]

Interesting, I may go. Depends if I have work or not. I'd try to get my friends with Hondas to go, but they've never tracked before and are usually pretty broke, so it is pretty unlikely.


Edit: Seems to be full. Guess I won't be going.

[sr20goofus]

if you are close by dont be afraid to come check out the enent for a day. Usually you can get ride alongs and just hang out and enjoy the event.

[turtl631]

It's about a 2 hr drive. I'll try to get at least one of the Honda guys to come out and maybe get some ridealongs so they know what they're missing. I'd definitely like to check out your car too. Most events I'm at are 95% Porsche, BMW, and racecars, so seeing some Hondas, STis, and so on will be an interesting change.

[sr20goofus]

its a private event, so there prolly wont be any of the high dollar **** there.

and you shoudl be able to ride along with me, ill be in Advanced 2 hopefully, since they arnt accepting any more instructors.

[sr20goofus]

the head checked out good....no problems, still flush, and no cracks anywhere, waiting on HG and some other seals before reassembly, then everything goes back together this weekend hopefully.

[2Fass240us]

the head checked out good....no problems, still flush, and no cracks anywhere, waiting on HG and some other seals before reassembly, then everything goes back together this weekend hopefully.
Sweet! Keep us updated.

[sr20goofus]

parts will be in monday, so hopefully it will be early enough for m to do all the work monday and be done with the car until mid may when i have 2 track events.

[sr20goofus]

engine is up and running, with only mild adjustment to the ignition timing after startup, turns out im getting pretty good and timing, almost spot on without timing light, i was at 16* BTDC instead of 15*.

brake ducting starts tomorrow, and the old suspension goes on until i can afford a set of Stance coilovers, a week or two prolly.

[turtl631]

Wait, you're selling you Ohlins to get Stance?

[a_ahmed]

LOL I just read that.. nooooooo he has gone to the dark side i mean jdm side :P

Koni 8611 :( sniff... save another 500 bux and go koni 8611 front and rear as I am :) Double adjustable that is ACTUALLY adjustable :P

I used to the want stance gr+pro (oh sexy name) until I read more and learned more :) They also have the ever sexy AL+ ones now or whatever they are called hehe.

Come Luke.. join the dark side... YOU DONT KNOW THE POWWAAAA of the konis!

[sr20goofus]

considering the prices i can get on a set of stance, it is well below the additional $500 for the 8611, which are way overkill for a 240 in my opinion unless you are legitimately racing.

suppose i can get a set of GR+ for like $850 shipped new, maybe even cheaper. How much starting from scratch for the whole koni setup all 4 corners with just single adjustable? $1400 with camber plates? that enough money saved to do 2 track events almost. I would much rather have seat time than a fancy suspension setup, cause one way your learning the other way your watching your car sit.....motionless.

I havnt heard anything bad about stance at all, besides the one or two people who have somehow managed to actually bend a piston....no idea how they did that without hitting something like a curb. What have you heard that was so negative?

[a_ahmed]

Well you got a point there, seat time win > any fancy part

But you get what you pay for part-wise... I suppose for track only that may be okay, your car is track only... 'rough' and 'jarring' and skittish may not be terms seen on a perfect surface... :-/ They are race proven though (the 3 way adjustable ones or was it 2 way the ones they dont sell anymore) in sasha's s14 GT with which he won against vettes and vipers.

But ah well :-/ I know you are working on a budget, much respect on your track experience though there bro :)

[Def]

The damping is pretty crappy on them. You say you don't need a nice damper setup on any 240 unless you're racing, but IMO *NO* car is fun to drive with a set of crap dampers that get skittery on rough roads.

Not to mention I'd be VERY surprised if the springrate was within 10-15% of the rated spec or compared to each other.


Even a used set of GC coilovers + 8610's up front and yellows in the rear will absolutely blow a set of Stances away, and not cost much more.

[turtl631]

Skittery indeed. I've played with mine quite a bit and I'm not too thrilled. They're just way too uncomposed over any irregularities on the track. When I approach small bumps, I know the car is gonna skate, not soak them up and keep gripping. With the streets around here looking like a close-up of the face of a 16 year old with bad acne, I think the street driving manners will be much improved with the Konis as well. But, I'm more concerned with how they'll work on the track.

My thoughts are that while having too good of a car (i.e. tons of power with flexible powerband, gummy R-comps) masks mistakes by allowing you to keep up with better-driven, but less capable cars, having a balanced chassis with a good suspension that really works for you can never hurt. Sure, you might not learn how to drive an evil, loose, snap-oversteering car by driving a mild-mannered one, but you'll learn how to drive fast and smoothly.

[sr20goofus]

i do know the koni setup is better, its a matter on money as i stated before. For a much cheaper price and money saved towards gas for getting to long distance events i will be going with the stances, if i had a larger budget id be getting the koni yellow's most likey.

I am up grading from KYB AGX shocks with Tein springs, so just about anything is an improvement over this setup that i have been tracking for 3 years. Ill use the stances for a year, maybe more, turn them around for what i paid (hopefully) and get something better. I might end up just loving them who knows, each driver has their preference. I got really used to my cars body roll and i used it to my advantage on track even tho it still limited me in the end, where as my brother in his civic run 14k springs up front and 11k out back, it rides like a kart but hes fast as hell.

We will see what happens, i may hate them after an event or use them all year with zero complaints who knows. I appreciate the input guys, but my budget has me by the testiculars for awhile.

[sr20goofus]

Brake ducting done yesterday. I used 2" Scat tubing from aircraft spruce with high temp rating. I attached it to he back of my dust shield with a pinched 2" piece of tubing. The front attaches to my bash-bar for the most strait on opening for best air flow. I will post pictures later when i get a chance.

[sr20goofus]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0152.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0153.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0154.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0156.jpg

[Def]

That a NE car?

I guess I'm spoiled with a 100% rust free S13.

[sr20goofus]

i have surface rust on quite a few little things.....but i also have BAD rust in a few spots.


next year i am thinking the car will get a full makeover (rust repair, and full interior and exterior paint).....or ill be switching chassis entirely. If i decide to do teh restoration i will be soing most of it, if not all.

[2Fass240us]

2" ducting? Loser. :)

[sr20goofus]

so it was a scammer i guess?


either way, 2" ducting was a must because of extremely limited space on the dust shield and between wheel and the inner fender.

[sr20goofus]

just purchase a large variety of used r-comps today. So i can delay switching to 16" tires for awhile.

8 Hoosier R6
4 Toyo RA1
4 Hankook 214

all with 50-75% tread left. Yay for 2 seasons worth of tires....

[McCoy]

what sizes are they... out of curiousity..

[sr20goofus]

245/45R16 all sets, no stagger.

[McCoy]

245/45R16 all sets, no stagger.
that's what I thought you were running...

I have been running with no stagger and enjoy how the car handles on track... especially once I added the HLSD. Some people fail to see the added cost of tires once you go to a stagger... and the fact that you can't rotate tires.

[sr20goofus]

EXACTLY!!!!

its much easier and more cost effective to run tires down to the bone, and rotate them around every corner of the car. I havnt ever planned on going stagger ever just to make the most of whatever tires i have.

HLSD made that big of a difference you say, i have been using my VLSD for years with no real complaints, mostly because i havnt felt anything better i guess.

[McCoy]

HLSD made that big of a difference you say, i have been using my VLSD for years with no real complaints, mostly because i havnt felt anything better i guess.
I was running an open diff last year... NA it was fine, but as soon as I added the T28 I had issues :(

[knate]

HLSD made that big of a difference you say, i have been using my VLSD for years with no real complaints, mostly because i havnt felt anything better i guess.

I really like the HLSD for road course use. With the VLSD when the back end would start losing traction it felt like it needed two seperate corrections. I believe from the inside tire starting to spin, then for the outside tire. The HLSD feels more stable in this situation and has more grip overall. I was happy with my VLSD until a friend with a clutch LSD kept leaving me out of the corners at the track. Now that I have an HLSD that doesn't happen anymore.

I have also had the VLSD get me in trouble in areas that the HLSD would not, like getting an inside tire on a damp curb. VLSD can't handle that, and will get wheelspin inside then transfer to outside, but is no problem with HLSD (torque mostly on outside tire).

[2Fass240us]

Damn Casey, nice loot you found there. And all prefect for my K1's (gimme!!!)

[sr20goofus]

no way mang...all for me, im hogging all used 16" r-comps...forever.


pics coming soon, they are glorious and meaty and in definite need of track time :).


ecugrad, whats with the deleted post?

[sr20goofus]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/PICT0163.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/PICT0162.jpg

[McCoy]

Yep, I'd say your set till mid next year for tires ;)

[Epstein]

Dats a lot of donuts!

[sr20goofus]

Welp had my first adventure on the Summit Point Shenendoah track this past weekend. Picked it up pretty quick, its a very agressive, lots of turns and very technical track. Overall i did quite well, especially when they combined the instructor group and Advanced students togeather for the last two sessions, had me some fun with timid advanced drivers, all on video i believe so hopefully i can have that up on here in the next 2 days.

Next event is with PCA next weekend, 3 days of tracking and i should only have one student for the entire event, so i am excited. I should have video from that also, and probobly traqmate data as well, official lap times.

[sr20goofus]

POP....went the engine.....time for cheap, fast inexpensive rebuild....hopefully this one will last another 2 years.

[turtl631]

What happened?

[sr20goofus]

What happened?


a harsh studder...some smoke and a huge loss of power....then the sweet subaru exhaust sounds..from my own car, and more smoke from the catch-can.


Engine is out an don a stand ready for disassembly, ill have pics of the destruction tonight or tomorrow.

[racepar1]

Sounds like the rings took a dump to me. No holes in the block right? My dad always told me that once you feel the shudder it is all over, just shut it down so that hopefully you can save the block.

[Def]

Yikes, I worry about that sometime, but I try to keep the boost pretty mild.

What kind of boost/power were you running? Tuning?

[sr20goofus]

Sounds like the rings took a dump to me. No holes in the block right? My dad always told me that once you feel the shudder it is all over, just shut it down so that hopefully you can save the block.


well i got the shudder at full throttle in 3rd gear, high rpm range in a turn. My thought were not on me trying to save the motor as much as get off track and keep my mess in the grass. If something bad enough to make a hole was going to happen, i wouldnt have been able to prevent it anyways.

What kind of boost/power were you running? Tuning?


only running 12psi on a T28, dyno showed at 270whp. Tuning was just with SAFC I.

[racepar1]

Sooooooo hole or no hole? Or are you going to make us wait for pics to find out? I hope not because waiting for pics probably not only means a hole, but a BIG one.

[Epstein]

S15 turbo
12psi boost (HKS actuator)
STI 540cc injectors
BC 264 cams
full exhaust
9.0:1 CR
walbro fuel pump
SAFC 1


Wait, you blew up a built short block with a T28?

[turtl631]

Tuning was just with SAFC I.

Could be the culprit here...

[Def]

Yep - I got heavy knock on the track with the stock ECU and T25 at about 9-10 psi and stock SMIC. It's pretty aggressive in timing at higher RPM, and runs very lean in the midrange - not a good combo.

I'd never think of running just an AFC tuned car on the track...

A couple hundred bucks on a tune would have probably prevented this...

[sr20goofus]

well i have 3 melted pistons, block damage at the top of Cyl 1 and and head damage in cyl 1 and 2.

Not a built short block, stock pistons. And i have been running the same ECU and engine setup for 2 years now without issue. I am going to get another longblock and replace the headgasket, and just use stock injectors and 10psi, keep it simple and just enjoy the seat time. This old engine made great power for being so minimally moded, but all good things must come to an end.

A good tuen and good ECU, etc prolly could have helped, but i dont think it would have prevented the overall failure, i put thousands of track miles on this engine (17 track events) and odds are it wasnt going to last. It was a good run and a blast to drive, now it time for me to concentrate more on momentum than hoping the raw power would help me with the vetts.

[sr20goofus]

pictures tonight, i was pretty pissed once i looked everything over and realized it was all just garbage meow....cause im not sleeving the block and the head has already been milled 0.040" so odds are i have passed the max already there.

[2Fass240us]

Sucks. I saw your picture message last night and even showed it to the wife as we were in bed at the time.

[turtl631]

So, is the image of a blown SR20 much of an aphrodisiac?


SR20Goofus, you really should get a ROM tune on there. I don't think an AFC of any sort is a good way to go, much less an older SAFC-I with such low resolution. But the way they interfere with timing maps is problematic, as is not having a decent timing map to begin with as Def mentioned.

[sr20goofus]

i know i need somethign better, i just cant afford it...between getting the new motor togeather in 3 weeks, vacationing to colorado next week, and saving up to drive my ass 12hrs to gingerman to do a track event with my brother in july......imn VERY strapped for cash.

i have no issues putting the motor back to stock form if itll help it all last longer, less power will help me tune in my skeeeelz anyways.

[turtl631]

If I were you, I'd look really hard at where I was spending my money and try to save up for the tune. You'll just be pissing away money on a rebuild if you don't have good fuel management for it. Check out what Def said- "stock form" is not so hot when referring to the ECU tune. If I were allowed only 1 mod for whatever reason, it would definitely be a ROM tune.

That said, I hope you don't drop the G-man event, because I still want to roll out there and check it out. Registration was already closed when I looked into it, but that's okay. Might go with some Honda friends of mine who are getting interested in tracking their cars one of these days- maybe seeing the real deal will get them to actually do it.

[sr20goofus]

Oh i will be at the gingerman event and another before it, as long as i can get the pistons i need and the machine work done. Gingerman is a big trip for me, not for a great track, but its a very long drive and i get to chill with my brother and have fun on track with him, so its worth it. Ill be tracking my DD if it comes down to it.

[sr20goofus]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/engine%20failure/PICT0204.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/engine%20failure/PICT0206.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/engine%20failure/PICT0205.jpg

cyl 1 piston has a hole in the side of it, its awesome.



new block is off to machine shop tomorrow, ill fin dout if oversized pistons with max clearance will be enough to make the cylinders pretty. Then pistons will be on their way almost immediatly and the engine assembly will begin once i get back from colorado.

ill be MIA for a few days fellas, so be gentle with your comments about my busted ass SR, i cant defend myself till next weekend.

[a_ahmed]

Damn it looks like it was dug up near the titanic haha... fun fun... hope your next motor does better :)

[sr20goofus]

Damn it looks like it was dug up near the titanic haha... fun fun... hope your next motor does better :)

this one already did better than most peoples track motors do. 2.5 years, 17 track events, id say its done a very good job, i just with it wasnt catastrophic failure, i just wanted bad rings or something.....im too naive i i guess.

[sr20goofus]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/engine%20failure/PICT0270.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/engine%20failure/PICT0272.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/engine%20failure/PICT0273.jpg

pics of the new pistons and block will be up tomorrow, since all i can do is install the crank and put the pistons in the block until my con-rod bearings show up, im sort of stuck....

[Def]

That thing was knocking its ass for a while. Never heard anything?

[sr20goofus]

no noise situation....car shuddered, lil smoke, loss of power, i pull off track immediatly.


tho i did start teh car to get i on the trailer...and to pull it in the garage to work on it....that mak have been the icing on the cake.

[McCoy]

When I detonated my first SR motor on track, I also never heard a thing... just started laying down a big cloud of white smoke down the front straight :eek:

I guess a top mount intercooler with no ducting wasn't such a smart idea afterall.
http://www.prmsg.org/albums/The-New-Project/detonation.sized.jpg

[Def]

no noise situation....car shuddered, lil smoke, loss of power, i pull off track immediatly.


tho i did start teh car to get i on the trailer...and to pull it in the garage to work on it....that mak have been the icing on the cake.

That damage is a result of prolonged detonation on the piston.

Notice how the carbon is "pitted", and I'm willing to bet the center of the piston is rough feeling. The center of piston receives cooling from engine oil hitting it from the relatively thin section of the center, while the outsides have much more material to conduct to before they transfer large amounts of heat to another medium. Therefore under prolonged detonation they'll typically be the first to undergo melting. The edges melt, and combustion gasses start escaping and hitting the rings/ringlands. Eventually it either eats a hole through the piston like you saw, or it cracks the ringlands/piston on the side.

Are you still running your V-mount setup? Any ideas on IATs?


I do think the main reason was the large-ish injectors and an S-AFC. That's BAD mojo for timing.

[sr20goofus]

V-mount is long gone, FMIC now with koyo rad....no idea of IAT.

only one cylinder had damage liek this, others had small signs but nothing close, which is why i accuse an injector. I ran SAFC all last year with no problems, but i also ran stock injectors. The ended up being ALL screwed up also...just cyl 1.

[Def]

So there is no little white/light specks on the other spark plugs, no "pock marks" on the other pistons?

Do you run Deatschwerks injectors?

[Def]

Looking back at your pics, it might just be the lighting, but I'm pretty sure you have quite a bit of detonation damage on the number 2 piston, and possibly the number 3.

One piston completely melting down does make me think that one was running differently than the others.

[sr20goofus]

damage to the edge of two other pistons (3 & 4), but no detonation damage to the top surface, nothign like the melted piston in the pics....

[Def]

So you're say there are not little pock marks/rough areas on the other pistons? Maybe I'm just seeing some weird lighting on piston 2.

If there's damage(cracking?) on other pistons, then yea, you were getting pretty regular detonation.

I'd strongly recommend getting a ROM tune. I can hook you up for less than the "going price" if you have an S13 SR.


BTW - what type of injectors do you have?

[sr20goofus]

before i put the Subaru STI injectors in, i replaced the headgasket, and both the pistons and the head were perfect, no damage, just dirty. Since i ran 2 events with these injectors things went down hill. I made one change and things went wrong, seems sort of easy to point out the culprit.

I dont have the money for a rom tune right meow, maybe next month. I do have S13 SR and "less than going rate" price would be awesome, but i am strapped right now between paying cc bills from going to colorado and getting this motor togeather.

I have stock sr injectors now i am installing, while i decide what to do with the STI's. Stock boost and injectors will be fine for me, i dont need alot of power, just a running car. To help me in the mean time until i can afford your rom tune what can i do timing wise to help keep me in the safe zone (advancing/retarding to what degree)?

[Def]

Stock injectors and stock ECU at stock base timing is good.

Did you ever dyno tune the AFR with the S-AFC after installing the STi injectors? The stock ECU's midrange AFR is very lean.

The reason why you got detonation with the STi injectors is the AFC reduces the MAF voltage the ECU sees to trick it into running less injector pulsewidth. This makes it think you are running "less boost/air" - which means more timing advance. This leads to knock obviously since the more you take out of the MAF signal the higher the timing goes.

For S-AFC settings on stock ECU/stock injectors, do +10% high throttle up to about 4.4k RPM, 8% to 5k RPM, 4% to 5.6k RPM, then zero from there to redline. Should get you to a more reasonable AFR. I'd keep the boost at 10 psi or below with the GT2560R and stock injectors. I was about maxing out my stock MAF with 11 psi towards redline on mine.

[sr20goofus]

i had it tuned on a dyno at about 11.8-12 AFR. Thats my dyno sheet on like pg 3 or something with the STI injectors.

i plan to keep it more stock from now on, just to help everythign last, and concentrate more on picking up speed the old fashioned way and less the redline TA way.

[Def]

I'm not a fan of the stock tune whatsoever, but it should be better than running STi injectors with an S-AFC from a timing perspective.

[sr20goofus]

anything would be better, if i had forseen this happening i would have always run stock everything :)....

if my AEM EMS didnt get fried last year i woul dhave great tuning, but i got it fixed and sold it before i could hurt it again.

[Def]

Well let me know if you want a ROM tune in the foreseeable future. I'm ordering a few daughterboards soon. I don't tune enough cars now to justify keeping a stock of them.

[sr20goofus]

PM sent, conversation can continue there, seems more appropriate.



pics soon of how the block is comming togeather, i wish i had my bearings and HG here, i could so finish assembly today if i had them. DAMN!

[sr20goofus]

I am now to the point where everything i can possibly install is done, until my rod bearings and HG arrive. So i am stuck until then.

pics are from this morning, not this evening, everything you can imagine besides head, and the oilpans is done, to leave access to the rods and bearings.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Engine%20Assembly/part%202/PICT0279.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Engine%20Assembly/part%202/PICT0280.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Engine%20Assembly/part%202/PICT0281.jpg

[2Fass240us]

When we talked you said something about OE oversized pistons...is that what those are? IF yes, what P/N?

Are you doing anything with the oil pump, chain, etc.?

[sr20goofus]

the pistons are for a TT 300zx Z32. OEM

and i cleaned the oilpump and lubricated the gears for the install and put hte old chain back in, no need to replace, nothing wrong with either.

[Epstein]

Did you actually take the oil pump apart? I'm curious to what it looked like. I haven't sent much of anything through my old pump and it looked like the surface of the moon.

I haven't seen someone go with TTZ pistons in years. What CR is that supposed to get you? That doesn't look like much dish at all.

[sr20goofus]

the inside of the oil pump was very clean and in good shape, my pump was making great oil pressure before i removed the engine also (last time i pulled it into the garage).

The TTZ pistons might give me like 9.0:1, not much of an increase, the N/A pistons would bump it up a decent bit. The dish is fairly small, less than SR, so maybe ill be 9.5:1 ish....

[Epstein]

You'll really want a tuning solution with that increased compression ratio as the motor will need less timing across the board. But that setup should have some good flexability with the T28 and 12psi.

Is that pic of the piston at TDC? or just somewhere near the top?

[sr20goofus]

its TDCish...without the bearing.....it will most likely sit flush once the bearing is installed....assuming it shows up tomorrow.

the TT Z32's are claimed at 8.5:1 CR (different combustion chamber i am sure) but it seems the head i am using isnt cut either, so its got a healthy amount of chamber there. Hopefully the compression isnt too high and everything is fine until i can get Def's rom tune.

[McCoy]

From a quick search on the sr20forum with Z32 TT pistons, your new CR will be 9.0:1...

[sr20goofus]

thats what is was with my old motor (i had the head milled 0.040" with stock pistons) so i should be fine. I ran that motor on stock everything and 10psi for 2 years. Tho yes a good tune would be better, i am completely out of money for this motor and the next few races, so SAFC will have to do and low boost.

[McCoy]

well, I'm currently running a DE (9.5:1 CR) and have had no issues at 12psi on track.

[sr20goofus]

welp got the engine assembled last night, minus manifolds and tranny.


everything went together smooth, rotated nicely and pistons sat flush with the top of the block. head went together perfect no issues and rotated everything through a few times before setting the CAS timing.

finish assembly and install tonight, then runup tomorrow and easy street tuning, hopefully.

[2Fass240us]

Good luck, mengal0r. Sorry about not returning your VM...I'll try calling you today or tonight.

[Ronald So]

I had the opportunity to try out some Ohlins struts. w/ some RSR springs. I'm not sure the model or spring rate, put them up front and are more impressed with these than my KTS coilover ( i know its junk)

Just adjusted the rebound and got the aditude out of the front end and it works so well! But your more committed to the turn than heavier spring rated cars. Could use compression adjustment. I might leave these in the fronts until I can figure out what dampers I want to use

[sr20goofus]

back from my 4th event this year....and for the first time i can tell you guys i had only 1 small issue that was easy to fix.

Issue - Battery cable broke at terminal going to battery, reinstalled cable, done.


Toyo RA-1's are money, they grip good once you start getting them hot and they seem to resist wear pretty well.

Even tire wear all around, 2.5* camber up front and 1.5* out back. toe is zeroed out.

Stance suspension is a huge upgrade over my old shock/spring combo, i will be switching to stiffer springs later this year, i want to get more used to the 7k/5k setup with dampening at about 3/4 capability.

Didnt get any video (no camera), but im sure i will have some pics to post up in a day or so, the car sits great, rides great, and was very responsive. Motor ran strong with out a hiccup and power was always there, minimal lag noticed.

[2Fass240us]

Damn son, you're quick. I would be out for at least a year if my engine went blurp.

[sr20goofus]

it was a very inexpensive rebuild, and i had to pull alot of strings to get it going....

no fancy parts, lots of OEM parts, lots of late night nights, lots of favors from friends ive helped out...

engine ran very strong, i was very happy with it even though i was very skeptical of it working out this well.

ill have some pics ot post of the car later...the track shots look sooooo mean.

[sr20goofus]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Track%20shots/_11X4690.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Track%20shots/_11X0264.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/Track%20shots/_11X4795.jpg

[2Fass240us]

sweet

What's the "x" for?

[nismofly]

any hard parking pics?

im wondering exactly how low it is since youre looking at the weighted side in all 3 pics, looks pretty low though

[sr20goofus]

sweet

What's the "x" for?

"X" is a symbol of the elite......For NASA it signifies instructor.




parked picture...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/New%20Look/PICT0283.jpg

[2Fass240us]

"X" is a symbol of the elite......For NASA it signifies instructor.
Oooooo, look at me, I'm sooooooooooo cool! :)

[sr20goofus]

andy dont be jealous, its ok.

[nismofly]

whats nasa use for rookies in w2w?

for scca you have x's just like yours on the car so people know to watch out for you :D

[sr20goofus]

all HPDE groups have numbers, thats about it, and instructors to make sure no one does anything stupid.

Usually the instructor group is a more lively group, lots of passing, some racing, but never really aggressive, just fun and entertaining to watch.

[sr20goofus]

alright fellas, its about 2 weeks until im in Illinois on my way to WMHM at Gingerman raceway.

I am re-balancing my RA-1's mounting a set of hankook's as back-ups and i already dialed in a touch more front camber (-3*). Everything has been cleaned up, vacuumed out, wiped down, and ready for video and photos. Hopefully i get some good stuff to post up and show off for the sponsor.

wish me luck boys, its a 13hr drive there, so ill be needing it. Feel free to let me know if you can make it out and hangout for a day (19th-20th)

[ecugrad]

whats nasa use for rookies in w2w?



A big fat X ;)

[sr20goofus]

A big fat X ;)


ouch.......

[turtl631]

I'm moving that weekend....the missus will probably not appreciate me going to Gman, especially if I'm not even driving myself. Are you staying near there?

[sr20goofus]

I'm moving that weekend....the missus will probably not appreciate me going to Gman, especially if I'm not even driving myself. Are you staying near there?


camping at the track YO!

ill get there friday afternoon and im leaving directly after my last session on sunday.

i try to keep it as cheap as possible since im spending so much on gas just to get there.

[turtl631]

That's what I do too, I love when tracks allow you to camp on the grounds. Nothing sucks more than waking up in a tent, packing up, driving 20 miles to the track, and falling asleep during the drivers meeting because you spent half the night awake in a thunderstorm.

[sr20goofus]

That's what I do too, I love when tracks allow you to camp on the grounds. Nothing sucks more than waking up in a tent, packing up, driving 20 miles to the track, and falling asleep during the drivers meeting because you spent half the night awake in a thunderstorm.


ya that does sound like it sucks....

I have lucked out in the ran so far, i empty out all my track support (tool, tires etc.) from the back of the tow vehicle and sleep in there, gets a lil stuffy, but keep me dry.

[sr20goofus]

re-did my oil relocation and oil-cooler lines over the weekend with some fittings a SS line i had laying around from my brothers old car. Worked out quite nicely and now its a very sealed and secure setup.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0288.jpg

[Def]

What's the black stuff on the lines below the ferrules?

[sr20goofus]

electrical tape to hold the braid down so i wouldnt stab my fingers assembling the lines....

[Def]

Oh - never seen them assembled with the tape still on there. If you have trouble putting the ferrule on there the best thing is a flatheaded screwdriver and just work it all the way around the circumference of the hose.

[sr20goofus]

it wasnt difficult, the ss threads kept stabbing my fingers was all. I wasnt going for an eye-pleasing finish, just a finished look :). Its a HUGE upgrade over the old setup, i dont dare tell you what the relocation kit lines were before, i might get banned .

[2Fass240us]

it wasnt difficult, the ss threads kept stabbing my fingers was all. I wasnt going for an eye-pleasing finish, just a finished look :). Its a HUGE upgrade over the old setup, i dont dare tell you what the relocation kit lines were before, i might get banned .
Share with the group, Casey. We could all use a good laugh. :)

[sr20goofus]

very similar to this....


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/15715.jpg

[2Fass240us]

^I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. :)

[sr20goofus]

^I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. :)

fantastic.... :)

i told you it was bad, i ran it like that forever without a single problem. Finally i realized i had been pushing my luck too much, so i made the change.

[Def]

it wasnt difficult, the ss threads kept stabbing my fingers was all. I wasnt going for an eye-pleasing finish, just a finished look :). Its a HUGE upgrade over the old setup, i dont dare tell you what the relocation kit lines were before, i might get banned .

I guess I've made too many of those things. I remember poking my fingers and having trouble on some ferrules, now it's a breeze. Although I will say I'm glad you got rid of the rubber hose and clamps!!! Sounds like a potential disaster there for sure. I'm actually not 100% happy with any of my non-AN connections. I'm more and more moving towards doing AN stuff on my car just because nothing sucks more than crap blowing apart on your car on track. Call me unlucky, but I've had a few instances of that on the track.


I've actually thought of wiggins clamps as well, but the welding part is a big detractor on that.

[sr20goofus]

wiggins is cool, but i dont think ill ever justify the cost....especially when its not all that necessary.

for IC piping, some of the piper aircraft we work on use two hose clamps on each side of the coupling, their couplings are a much different material then the multi-layer silicon we all use, but they use mor couplings to ensure reliability, otherwise V-band everything.

[Def]

Not a fan of v-bands on IC piping - too much movement.

I know what you're talking about with the NAS couplers - those things are actually pretty janky and not very "robust." The two hose clamp solution is pretty rare from what I've seen, as the NAS couplers tend to "stay put" easier than a silicone coupler on a hot pipe. Then again, 95% of the air side ECS connections are wiggins clamps(F-16, F-35 stuff).

If you've never messed with one, they're truly badass with the articulation they have while never leaking. Then it's a simple two finger operation to remove/install them.

Like you said though, the cost(especially new!) is very hard to justify. I've seen a few assemblies pop up used here and there, and still expensive, but not so bad when you think about how much good quality silicone connectors are.

[sr20goofus]

I havnt ever messed with military aircraft, all general aviation, Piper, Pilatus, Cessna, etc...

silicon couplers are rare here, if non-existant all together.


I have played with the wiggins junx before, and they are cool, but id rather keep it simple and inexpensive if everything working fine, AN fittings even get overkill at a point for me.

[2Fass240us]

I have played with the wiggins junx before, and they are cool, but id rather keep it simple and inexpensive if everything working fine, AN fittings even get overkill at a point for me.
Loser.

Wiggins clamps are justifiable in certain situations where de-coupling could cause catastrophic engine failure. They are expensive, but they're also :cool: as chit.

[sr20goofus]

Loser.

Wiggins clamps are justifiable in certain situations where de-coupling could cause catastrophic engine failure. They are expensive, but they're also :cool: as chit.

when and where would you see yourself loosing a coupling? a 3ply coupling with properly made IC piping should never fail, unless your trying to push 40psi though it, then maybe.

IC piping should be made for a very close fit without the coupling, so even if the pipes move, they dont pull all the way out of the coupling, and if the piping has a bead-rolled edge, it should also never be able to pull out.

I can justify this all day andy, try me, unless its a super high HP drag car, or a formula car, i dont see the necessity, despite the ballerness of the clamps :). I try to keep things as grassroots as possible, so i think functional and practical instead of cutting edge and blingy.



best example of rediculous overuse is the rx-8 drift car (blue) with about $3k+ worth of wiggins clamps for fuel lines, IC piping, etc...way overdone....especially because i think it crashed...

[2Fass240us]

Yeah, I would be hard-pressed to use them, but may on some places down the road, like oil lines.

[Def]

I've lost a properly torqued intercooler pipe at the track(it was bead rolled). Silicone couplers just get slippery when they get hot in my experience, so while they might never come off in 100k miles on the street, all it takes is one really hot track day and reasonable boost pressure.

The silicone couplers also cold flow over time, so I've gotten in the habit of going over every connection before and during a track weekend multiple times. It gets annoying...

AN hoses are pretty damn vibration proof, and they're honestly not expensive for the important stuff like oil lines(compared to an engine rebuild if you lost oil pressure).

[sr20goofus]

for important things i do use AN lines (now). Its alway s good idea to check fittings and such before and after events because anything can happen no matter how baller your parts are. From what i have noticed on most other forums, problems occur from user ignorance and installer error, people dont check and re-check things and installers dont follow directions, **** happens.

I have have things pop off before under boost also, but it was a BOV pipe plug i hadnt checked in months, so it probably got loose over time and i just never looked, my fault not the plugs.

[2Fass240us]

I've lost a properly torqued intercooler pipe at the track(it was bead rolled). Silicone couplers just get slippery when they get hot in my experience, so while they might never come off in 100k miles on the street, all it takes is one really hot track day and reasonable boost pressure.
Would one of the constant tension t-bolt clamps have kept this from happening? Like this one from the McMaster site: http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/114/gfx/small/8946kp1s.gif

[Def]

It could, but I'm definitely not a fan of t-bolt clamps. I'll stay with worm drive clamps and check them over t-bolts. Slight stubborness, and some bad experiences with them as well.

[McCoy]

I'm running the T-bolt clamps and 3-ply silicone couplers that came with my $100 ebay piping kit. Once everything was tightened and pressure tested I've had no issues to date. If I had to choose, I'd probably still go with good qty worm drive clamps though...

[Caithness]

The only issue I ever had with T-bolt clamps on my old DSM was that they were too awesome and could be clamped down too hard. I had a thin-wall aluminum throttle body elbow welded up for me and the first thing I did was crush a small dent into it overtightening a t-bolt clamp. I had no beads or anything to help avoid blowing off pipes, just good old t-bolt clamps- not even the fancy spring-loaded clamps pictured above. I never had any issues with blowing off the couplers even running 25+ PSI at the drag strip. I swear by the things and would never run worm gears again.

[sr20goofus]

well fellas im heading out on my 12hr drive to Chicago, then to Gingerman Raceway from there. Wish me luck, if you happen to be nearby feel free to come say hi over the weekend. Oh and i have been tossing the idea of racing around for the end of next year, its a big debate tho.

[nismofly]

would you run the comp school next spring then just in case?

from what ive read you could do it at pocono in like april, im not sure when MA does their comp schools because i know you run with them pretty much every time

[sr20goofus]

I would do the comp school with NASA MA in the fall if anything, still a debate, until the bitter end im sure.

[sr20goofus]

UPDATE!!!!!

got back from gingermanthis morning, nonstop 12hrs of driving after the event...awesome....not so much.

the track was cool, more-so than i had originally thought.

Sat -
Rained all day, sloppy wet track, guys with all-seasons and AWD dominated, i was all over the place with Hankook slicks, but i was enjoying my track time (i snuck in 2.5hrs) i ran with 2 groups, it was nice...even tho it was wet. Car started having battery light come on, and odd misfire at high rpm when defrost and wipers were operating on track. Learned a basic enough line i could slide around the track and not be rediculously slow, still able to pull 95mph on the front strait in the rain, pretty good in comparison to the other guys becaus eof my last turn exit strategy.

Sun-
the track dried up after some light rain in the morning. bat issues ocntinued, found a broken case ground, fixed it, problem persisted, ECU seems to be in limp mode, or there is a huge lack of electrical power to the entire system at high rpm, causeing the misfire. Fien tuned my line, ended uphavign to run the course in 4th gear mostly just to maintain speed in the corners and limp my way down the straist at 4k rpm in 5th gear..not so awesome, but i learned alot about eliminating shifts in about 7 corners, carried alot mroe speed this way and really used the car more, great experience no matter how annoying on the straits. Everyone on teh sidelines said i was commign through a few of the corners faster than everyone....then i confused them with my partial throttle and no speed on the straits. If i had the engine power i did last event i would have completely whopped up on the whole instructor group, but i was limited to tailgating through the turns and then watching on the straits. Oh i again ran in 2 run groups, got another 2.5hrs track time. 5 hrs track time in 2 days, talk about tiring, and sneaky, no one at the event besides me and my brother had that much or even close, it was nice to abuse the system.

Issue seems to be directly related to my alternator, puts out 15V at idle, so the car runs fine of fthe alt, but it doesnt seem to be putting out any AMPs to charge the battery, so i killed the bat in a few sessions then the alt kept me alive, but very limited on power, causing the limp mode. I have a back-up alt here at home, a test this week/weekend will show the culprit and maybe the cure. Some good pics to follow soo, have to round them up from the track guys.

gingerman is deff. the track to hit if your within a reasonable drive, very fun, very fast, lots of safe run-off space, and fairly grippy tack surface, difficult race line to pick up, party line was a joke, but the fast line was a lil hard to get on. Wish i had gotten video, i was too busy with track time, schedule was too fu*ked up to spend time setting up camera.

[sr20goofus]

UPDATE!!!!

I have come to a crossroads, time to start thinking about the future, not settling down with babies type of future, but thinking about legitimately racing or always being an HPDE whore/instructor.


W2W Racing-

Racing would be great, it is possible to do it cheap, tho it would directly hurt being competitive (ie r-comp take-offs, heavy chassis, lacking aero, only racing at close tracks). I am able to get my car to fit into the NASA PTB class with some weight reduction (-200 lbs) and hopefully be competitive once i learn some more about trusting the brakes and tires even more than i already do. PTA would involve Aero work, more power, and wider rubber, all in all a more expensive class especially once the expensive wheels and aero gets banged up racing.

I would go through Comp. school next october at the end of the season and race the following year, and possibly once before the year was over just to get my feet wet.


HPDE Whore -

I would sell my car and all spares to get the most out of it financially. Buy something as a DD/Track warrior and use a small tire trailer to haul tool and rubber to the track. Car would have rollbar and CF buckets for tracking, but also be modded enough to be a DD also. This would be the best long term budget tho maybe not the most fulfilling. New car + lots of track time instructing would be fun to learn something all over again and spend 20min packing up at the end of the weekend instead of 1.5hrs loading up the car, trailer and all the BS that goes with it.


I am just trying to decide if its worth it to keep my cr and race, keep my car and continue instructing, or switch to a different car and instruct. No matter what i will continue tracking, it is far to addicting and fun no matter how bad of a weekend i have to let it all go.


Any input on my mind boggling decisions is more than welcome, throw out some pros and cons if you want.

[2Fass240us]

Stop being gay. Keep the S13. :)

[nismofly]

i saw this post on zt and since i cant post there i said, "oh i bet the same post is on NRR"

sure enough

anyways:

im sort of at the same point, only ive got next to nothing as far as track time goes (ill be in HPDE 1 still next summer), but my problem isnt whether to sell or build, its that im keeping my car and want to decide what to build it for

and i think the conclusion ive come to, and one that will possibly apply for you, is that im really not looking to do a totally crazy non-street legal w2w build with this car, but rather a car that i can drive to the track (even if it is a swapped turbo s13 hatch) and tow tires and carry my tools and whatnot, and later on when ive got the resources to go crazy like i want ill build a true w2w car how i want

you could run hpde's, continue instructing, and i know you hate them, but you could run time trial with nasa and other time attacks maybe?

i wouldnt want to run w2w unless i knew my car was at the level i want it to be at and was capable of winning, and you sound like you really wouldnt enjoy everything associated with getting to that point, and if youre not enjoying it, whats the point right?

maybe im just thinking out loud and ranting, but maybe youll see the point im trying to make, i hope

[sr20goofus]

its not that i wouldnt enjoy racing, its just that money wins races in the end, fresh motors, legit aero, new rubber, etc....

its tough to be a rookie racer and actually be competitive with seasoned if not nationally competitive racers.

its a very tough choice to make cause i dont want to tow my car to the track for the next 3 years then decide to race. Maybe switch to another S13/S14 chassis and swap all my goodies over and do it that way, a consideration for sure.

[nismofly]

sure its tough from a driver standpoint, but id much rather know that its my own skills keeping me from winning rather than not being able to spend the way i need to to get to the top of my class

this wont help much, but as far as your last paragraph goes, you could look at it from the other standpoint, you could sell your car now and in 3 years decide you want to race and now youve got this DD/track day car and youll be in a similar position

[2Fass240us]

its a very tough choice to make cause i dont want to tow my car to the track for the next 3 years then decide to race. Maybe switch to another S13/S14 chassis and swap all my goodies over and do it that way, a consideration for sure.
S14 is the only car you should replace it with. I'd sell the SR and get a LSJuan though. :D

[sr20goofus]

no need for LS anything, that would be more power than any S chassis driver needs on track..

[Cory]

What all does the Traqmate record? Also, what rate does it process GPS data at?

I use a Racelogic PerformanceBox which records at 10Hz. I am curious of how the Traqmate compares.

[2Fass240us]

no need for LS anything, that would be more power than any S chassis driver needs on track..
Can you make this thread any gayer?

I know plenty of people who could use 300/300 NA powuh.

[McCoy]

I know plenty of people who could use 300/300 NA powuh.
After riding/driving a Camero SS with 1000lbs of extra fat on track, I could only imagine what my car could do with that motor :D

[2Fass240us]

After riding/driving a Camero SS with 1000lbs of extra fat on track, I could only imagine what my car could do with that motor :D
Roll people. Lots of em.

I don't get too irritated by it, but it sucks to catch or leave someone in the curves only to get spanked on the straights. A guy in a C5 finally gave me the point-by after holding me up through most of VIR-Full. I think his instructor told him to suck it up. After that, he was pretty good about letting my chitbox by. :)

[Cory]

^Yea.. Some (****ty) drivers confuse that with being fast.

[sr20goofus]

What all does the Traqmate record? Also, what rate does it process GPS data at?

I use a Racelogic PerformanceBox which records at 10Hz. I am curious of how the Traqmate compares.


the traqmate can record RPM, speed, lap times and give you actual GPS readouts of you on track. Once you download the data to a computer it will show you lap by lap what lines you take, how they vary, speeds everywhere and such. Really it does a great job, and you can compare your data with that from other drivers.

[Cory]

Sweet. That is pretty much what my performancebox does as well, short of engine parameters. The software is definitely very cool. I love being able to see what I was doing.

The trick is to convince somebody faster than you to drive your car, and see what they are doing differently. hehe.

[sr20goofus]

All done the changes i have been working on to make the car "seem" legal, so i can drive it to local track events for lapping days and such. No daylight shots yet, ikeep forgetting after work.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0297.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/PICT0294.jpg

high-beams and headlights work independently of each other and blinkers work separately from daytime running lights.

[Def]

no need for LS anything, that would be more power than any S chassis driver needs on track..

I think the ideal power on a big track once you get everything sorted on an S13 is likely in the 300-350 rwhp range. Any more than that and I bet you'd be struggling with traction more than just driving, or it's something that makes that extra bit more power at the upper end of the rev band and it's not going to make a difference in the lap time.

[a_ahmed]

lol the car looks evil or batman like at night mwahahahaha

Actually that looks like those cheap ebay headlights? Weight savings yes, quality no?

[sr20goofus]

weight added, i had no headlights before......

they are the old Eastbear headlights no longer made. i got a good deal on a set i had to modify to clear my IC pipes.

[a_ahmed]

oh damn... :( LOL added weight, well it sure is lighter than my motorized crap i have now :D

I always wonder what to do... should i do s13 silvia conversion, s15 silvia conversion, make my own fixed headlights that fit the popups... or get the ebay crap.. or one of the jdm brands... the ones i really really wanted actually were the veilside flushlight kit but that's discontinued. Circuitsports i believe (i forget which company) had some used ones for sale for 600$... damn pricey so I said no at the time, then when I emailed them again they never responded lol... the kit looks pimp and is lighter than the stock crap... the stock assmebly/motor etc.. is a pig.. the ebay non popups are almost like eastbears just cheaper in quality and price and they stick out which is kinda uhm ugly.. but they run about 80 bux on ebay or something...

[sr20goofus]

Alright guys UPDATE!!!!!

this month of October is a busy one for me. I have 3 events, 3 weekends in a row, and i am instructing at each of them, so not much down time at the track to relax or work on the hooptie, so cross your fingers for a solid car.

I just installed my repaired/overhauled STI 530cc injectors, Z32 MAFS, and Enthalpy roadrace tuned ECU. The car has MUCH better low end torque, less turbo lag and overall great acceleration. No dyno yet, that will come next friday most likely (but possibly monday). No other changes made performance wise, just a good solid tune to help make things last much longer.

First event is with Mazda Drivers Assc. at Summit Point Shenandoah circuit from 4-5.

Second event is with NASA MA at Summit Point Main circuit from 11-12.

Third event is with Lindsey Cadillac club at Summit Point Main circuit on the 20th.

I will hopefully have video from the second two events, no access to a camera for this weekend, tho my most recent footage is from Shenandoah it would be nice to compare, just doesnt seem to be in my favor this time around.

Lots of pics hopefully and good write-ups from each event.

[2Fass240us]

Cadillac club eh? Wonder what the average age is? :)

[sr20goofus]

Alright guys.......UPDATE!!!!!!!

My last 2 events were amazing and great in terms of having awesome students and learning more about the car with no actual power changes or suspension mods.

I have been testing a road race ROM tune from RS-Enthalpy with STI injectors and Z32 MAFS, no boost changes (12psi). The actual changes to my timing map helped the turbo spool up so much faster to reduce my lag, which was pretty noticeable before, tho manageable on track like I had a 0.86 A/R. The response of the turbo was awesome, and helped with corner exit speeds which in the end helped my overall laptimes.

With the bigger injectors and tune i do use a touch more fuel than usual, about 2.5 tanks over a weekend with NASA (190ish miles).

I upgraded to my slightly stiffer springs to help reduce body roll, so now i am rocking the 8k/6k setup on my stances which had no other adjustments. After viewing several pictures of my car on track i noticed i still have a decent bit of body roll so stiffer springs will be in order for next year.

Problems -

ont he Summit Point Main circuit i kept locking up my front RT wheel in the intense braking zones (2) and i couldn't figure out why for the life of me even after playing with tire pressures and such. This caused me to brake SUPER early and pump the brakes allowing everyone catch me in the braking zones. I started using a very soft initial braking method early to get the pads seated on teh rotor than squeeze down on the pedal getting my zones fairly compressed to where they used to be and keeping me from getting caught by some of the vett's. I think i may try a Z32 booster next year and see how it works out, and possibly change back if the pedal is too soft, right now its far too stiff forcing that locking of the front wheel at about 150mph...causing a good "pucker" factor the first time around.....then more of an aggravated effect each time after that.


Best lap times from the last 2 events-

Summit Point Main - 1:24.8 (matched with modded E46 M3 with traqmate, we ran
several laps chasing each other)

Summit Point Shenandoah. - 1:40 (Matched with 350Z i ran some laps with)

I will credit my current excitement and laptimes to the new ECU rather than the spring changes, gaining more speed everywhere was much more a benefit than a touch less bodyroll. Chris at RS-Enthalpy helped me put the setup together and to get it tuned with my injetors which were not the advertised 540cc, but 525cc, so a basic ROM tune would not have been as precise as him actually tuning his car with my injectors then sending me the ECU. All in all this should help my engine survive longer than last time and help me concentrate more and more on driving and improving my own personal abilities than always worrying about the condition of everything under the hood.

Hopefully i will have video from my event this coming monday, and a few pictures to post as well. For now you guys will have to deal with just a written update.


PS
275/40R17's are in order for next year, i spent alot of time sliding and not gripping where necessary even when i was as smooth as possible.

[veilside180sx]

Congrats.

Good on Chris and Enthalpy for taking care of you. They are good people=)

[a_ahmed]

Congratz man, always good to hear on your progress :)

[sr20goofus]

thanks guys. I have been concentrating so much on how to get faster because i have a good idea of what the car is capable of, but i need to get myself up to par and not so much the car. So just about the whole year is less modifications and more technique and trust. Trust is both my ability and in the cars, its a tough barrier to break sometimes but i have been making progress and its very aparent at each event usually througout or at the end when compared to the very first session.

side note....both of my students were very fast in the beginner and novice groups.

HPDE 1 - SPEC E30 BMW....fully prepped and the guy was great, deff HPDE 2 worthy and soon to be HPDE3 if he gets his consistency and visual awareness down, i smoothed him out tremendously and got him compressing his braking zones.

HPDE 2 - 1975 Datsun 240Z, mint-condition w/ koni yellows, 4-wheel disc brakes and hankooks. Great driver had to work on consistency, late braking, late passing, and overall confidence for high-speed turns. He basically did the whole last session with me silent next to him, he did great and had a blast after all the hard work.

[WishIHadaSilvia]

Are you going to make it to the Chin Motorsports event in December at VIR? I'm going to try my hardest to make it my first HPDE but I'm not sure if I'll have the money to do it yet....it kind of depends on me getting a job as I need new brakes and tires on top of paying for the new suspension. Not to mention I'd like to replace some bushings before then as well, and get the new FMIC piping done and turn the boost up, and the list goes on, haha.

[floodo1]

are you sure you dont need stiffer sway bars instead of springs? if you switch to stiffer springs you're going to get less body roll, but also less fore/aft weight xfer. if you switch to a stiffer sway bar then you'll only get less body roll, same fore/aft xfer.

anyway, please post if you figure out why front right locks up first. on my car with z32 30mm front and stock rears, and an alleged z32 1 1/8" MC, im getting massive early right front lockup compared to the rest. its REALLY annoying :( plus my pedal is pretty stiff and only moves a short distance before it stops moving (aka hard stiff short pedal movement)

[sr20goofus]

Are you going to make it to the Chin Motorsports event in December at VIR? I'm going to try my hardest to make it my first HPDE but I'm not sure if I'll have the money to do it yet....it kind of depends on me getting a job as I need new brakes and tires on top of paying for the new suspension. Not to mention I'd like to replace some bushings before then as well, and get the new FMIC piping done and turn the boost up, and the list goes on, haha.


I do not think ill be making that VIR event.....in December?

Do not worry about all thsoe mods before your first event, you dont need them. If you really want to learn get the car moving and safe. Tighten all bolts, change over to decent brake fluid, and check tire pressures. You do not need to upgrade suspension, power, etc especially nto for your first event. Keep it simple this way you will get the most out of the car and then realize how you dont really need power when you dont know how to use it yet.

This mentality is the same as msot Time Attackers who have no experience and just want to go fast without really knowing how. I have been using about the same power for 3 years and i have reduced my lap times by over 15sec per track over the years with just a few mods in suspension and brakes. Keep it simple and easy to drive i cannot stress this enough...save all that soon-to-be-spent money and put it towards the drivers seat (track time).



are you sure you dont need stiffer sway bars instead of springs? if you switch to stiffer springs you're going to get less body roll, but also less fore/aft weight xfer. if you switch to a stiffer sway bar then you'll only get less body roll, same fore/aft xfer.

anyway, please post if you figure out why front right locks up first. on my car with z32 30mm front and stock rears, and an alleged z32 1 1/8" MC, im getting massive early right front lockup compared to the rest. its REALLY annoying plus my pedal is pretty stiff and only moves a short distance before it stops moving (aka hard stiff short pedal movement)

Sway abrs are not what i am interested in, especially when i am using as soft a spring as i am now. Sway bars or just bar will come later on once i have my braking down (fwd-aft weight transfer), when body roll needs to be dialed in.

Your brakes are severly outmatched. Your fronts are way stronger than yoru rears so they are deff going to lock up super fast with the Z32 MC. Those brakes are way too much for street tires if you run an agressive pad, most peopel think they are necessary, btu they are just overkill if nto appropritly matched with the right tires and pad. I lock up my front right comming down from 150+mph into a short braking zone with hot r-comps, prolly not quite the same situation.

Get the Z32 brake boost and rear calipers and your brakes will be better matched, hot prolly not for your tires. The booster shoudl soften up your pedal, which is exactly what i am going for so i can keep my brakes managable.

Keep it simple, basic and easy to drive....UPGRADE LATER!!!!!!!!!!

[Def]

Yea I have a Z32 1" MC and the pedal is very stiff with the stock booster. Never had wheel lockup problems at high speed, usually just a little on the inside front(even on left handers where the inside left is the heaviest corner) a la F1 car - yep, I'm an F1 driver in my spare time(haha).

I knew a tune would make a big difference to the car. Mine drove like garbage the one time I experimented and tried the S-AFC2 route.

[sr20goofus]

Ya after talking to chris alot he convinced me his ECU would make the engien reliable, safe and strong powered.


The Z32 booster is supposidly the cure for this, but you have to get the non-abs booster for it to fit. I am going to work on getting this and let you guys know, ill try to egt one befor emy last event this year, so i can have a good comparison...i will also try to corner balance the car which shopudl help reduce the wheel lock-up also. My big self (220lbs) is prolly offsetting the suspension and causing the wheel with less load (rt front) to lock up easily.....combined with the stiff pedal its a guessing game which is more severe, but both togeather should be a fix.

[WishIHadaSilvia]

Thanks for the advice. I know the new suspension isn't necessary but I definitely need new bushings and brakes. I've got some Q45 front and J30 rear calipers sitting there waiting to be used and my pads are shot so I'd have to be buying some anyway, so why not upgrade is my thought on that. The bushings in the front of my car clunk under hard braking - I know it isn't my tension rods so I am thinking it is my front control arms since everything else up there has heim joints.

I know my car would be very fun on track with the power I currently have, I just have all of the parts minus the piping for installing the FMIC so I've just been putting it off.

I'd need tires as well because I don't think it would be very wise to track the 215/45s I have on my 17X9s right now. I've just always done drifting so I've got to prepare the car for a different kind of abuse as I think road racing is going to be a lot harder on it (at least the brakes and engine).

[floodo1]

Your brakes are severly outmatched. Your fronts are way stronger than yoru rears so they are deff going to lock up super fast with the Z32 MC. Those brakes are way too much for street tires if you run an agressive pad, most peopel think they are necessary, btu they are just overkill if nto appropritly matched with the right tires and pad. I lock up my front right comming down from 150+mph into a short braking zone with hot r-comps, prolly not quite the same situation.

Get the Z32 brake boost and rear calipers and your brakes will be better matched, hot prolly not for your tires. The booster shoudl soften up your pedal, which is exactly what i am going for so i can keep my brakes managable.

Keep it simple, basic and easy to drive....UPGRADE LATER!!!!!!!!!!

well idk d00d, in japan 240's came with the same brake setup that im running, though not sure which MC.
anyway the issue to me isnt that the front is locking up, but thats its the right front only. NEVER the left front.
it seems to me that this bigger MC should be relatively matched to the piston area of the fronts and much too large for the piston area of the rears.
also I ran this same MC with stock brakes it it still had the right front lockup problem. so it sounds like there is something up with the MC, but what could it be :(

and I'm with you, not planning on staying with stock rears, its just what I could afford right now.



anyway, to save from thread crapping: cool deal on the springs v sway bar issue, sounds like you do indeed need springs. My point was just that springs affect more than just body roll, whereas sway bars almost exclusively affect body roll (unless you hit a big bump or curb or something in which case they affect compliance)

[sr20goofus]

I knwo what the S14's come with in Japan, but we dont know what MC's or boosters they come with. If you mismatch all the parts then you get weird pedal feel and with an unbalanced car and a heavy braking foot you will lock up the front right.

I suggest switch the booster like i said would be the big fix for me earlier.

[Def]

What size MC do you have? If it's the 17/16" one that everybody thinks is best because it's "the biggest," then maybe you should step down to a 1" or 15/16" MC.

I think my 1" MC, stock S13 non-ABS manual booster, and Z32 brakes all around yields a stiff but very manageable pedal. If anything I think a bit more travel with a 15/16" MC would be a good change, but I don't think it's worth changing. The pad stiffness matters quite a bit in pedal feel as I find, as well as coefficient of friction(you can feel the pedal stiffness change as pads come into their prime friction range).

[Epstein]

I knwo what the S14's come with in Japan, but we dont know what MC's or boosters they come with.

Yes we do know.

JDM S14's had 30mm Z32 brakes in the front and stock S13/S14 rears. This is what they had behind the pedal...

S14 Silvia JDM non-abs is:
15/16" master, 230mm booster, 569psi x 0.4 prop valve

S14 Silvia JDM ABS is:
1" master, 205/180mm dual diaphragm booster, 569psi x 0.4 prop valve

S15 all:
1" master, 230/205 mm dual diaphragm booster, 427psi x 0.2 prop valve


We know what the US cars had. Here's what's behind those pedals...

S13 non-abs:
7/8" master, 230mm booster, 569psi x 0.4 prop valve

S13 ABS:
15/16" master, 205/180mm dual diaphragm booster, 569psi x 0.4 prop valve

S14 Zenki non-abs:
7/8" master, 230mm booster, 284psi x 0.4 prop valve

S14 Zenki ABS:
15/16" master, 205/180mm dual diaphragm booster, 284psi x 0.4 prop valve

S14 Kouki non-abs:
7/8" master, 230mm booster, 427psi x 0.4 prop valve

S14 Kouki ABS:
15/16" master, 205/180mm dual diaphragm booster, 427psi x 0.4 prop valve

Z32 Late all:
1" master, 230/205mm dual diaphragm booster, 356psi x 0.4 prop valve

Z32 1990 non-abs:
15/16" master, 230/205mm dual diaphragm booster, 498psi x 0.4 prop valve

Z32 1990 ABS:
17/16" master, 230/205mm dual diaphragm booster, 498psi x 0.4 prop valve

Z33 all (incl Brembo):
17/16" master, 255mm booster, elec brake dist


The FSMs all have this data listed on the last page of the brake section. I should have probably posted this in the brake thread. If you notice the trend here, the biggest master Nissan ever put on a single diaphragm setup was 15/16". Everything else was on a 205/180 or 230/205 dual booster or the 350Z's 255mm booster. In the US, only ABS cars are going to have dual boosters.

[sr20goofus]

Chris comes out of dark with all the info......you guys and your actual info.....jerks :)


Chris i am going to try and get onto the dyno next weekend, the local place is really being a bunch of di*ks about giving me time int eh evening, they only want to give me time while im at work.......

[Epstein]

I'm glad you're happy with the way the car runs now. I'm curious to see what the AFR's are if you're going through so much fuel. Either this setup is a little richer than it should be, or your last tune was a little leaner.

[sr20goofus]

I am going to try and find another dyno that will give me an AFR log with a dyno sheet, something closeish or a place that will at least make an appointment and keep it. Soon hopefully.

[nismofly]

Small tangent going back to the brakes real quick, considering going the z33/evo/sti route over the z32 route to start off, but still want proper balance...anybody know what people use MC/booster wise to run that setup properly? I don't want to ask people who have the setup but just mix and match it with stock S chassis/z32 stuff if that's not the best plan for us.

[Def]

Just my take on the "big OEM brake stuff" - I might look long and hard at an aftermarket setup that uses 2 piece rotors and has much cheaper pads available. The big OEM Brembos have hideously expensive track pads and the rotors are relatively expensive and freakin' way heavy.

[floodo1]

Just my take on the "big OEM brake stuff" - I might look long and hard at an aftermarket setup that uses 2 piece rotors and has much cheaper pads available. The big OEM Brembos have hideously expensive track pads and the rotors are relatively expensive and freakin' way heavy.

well aftermarket 2-piece rotors can be had for any of z33,sti,evo setups. though cost may still be an issue compared to aftermarket rotors.

good point on pads

[turtl631]

Calipers are still pretty hefty though, and costs are silly for pretty much anything in the system.

[nismofly]

Relative to z32 stuff though the don't make up the difference? Also not sure about rotors but a quick check on pads says z33 brembo are cheaper than both z32 and stoptech/brembo bbk's.

Either way whichever factory setup I get, whether it be z32 or z33, would be an intermediate setup. I'd eventually move to a bbk, at least for the fronts, I guess I thought they'd be better than z32.

[floodo1]

Relative to z32 stuff though the don't make up the difference? Also not sure about rotors but a quick check on pads says z33 brembo are cheaper than both z32 and stoptech/brembo bbk's.

Either way whichever factory setup I get, whether it be z32 or z33, would be an intermediate setup. I'd eventually move to a bbk, at least for the fronts, I guess I thought they'd be better than z32.

its not hard to be better than z32 setup. the big thing about z32 is its affordability. basically every "bbk" out there has much larger rotors, and usually 2-piece at that.

[Def]

They're "better" - but the costs were definitely higher last time I looked, and I think each rotor is over 20-22 lbs.

[Epstein]

... I don't know about that. I'll weigh one of mine when I have everything apart next week. Z33 aluminum hat rotors are in the $550-750 range. Z33 calipers aren't really that substantial. STi calipers have a lot more bulk/mass. I had both sets a while back.

[Def]

I got the Z33 stock rotor weight confirmed as being over 20 lbs(can't remember the exact amount) last time I checked. A Z32 rotor is pretty heavy too, and it's only 11" in diameter. That mass adds up when you start adding inches on the outside.

[2Fass240us]

Z33 aluminum hat rotors are in the $550-750 range.
Are you sure they aren't Ti? Geez.

I know that Brembo and other names are more expensive, but simply cannot justify the expenditure over Wilwoods on my budget. If it gets beyond the conjecture, I can start looking for a suitable replacement if someone gives me rotor specs.

[Epstein]

I did a little research on the aluminum hat Z33 rotors... Stoptech 2-piece aerorotor for stock replacement are in the $600-street range. No definite weights, but the same rotor for EVO is only 2-3lbs lighter than stock. 324x32 friction ring for Z33 is 16.8 lbs alone. The DBA 5000 series rotor is up over $600 as well.

I'm pretty sure Nissan's OEM price on a stock Z33 Brembo rotor is in the $500 range a piece.

[sr20goofus]

***UPDATE***

Cadillac club was a little lax, and alot of inexperienced people, even in the instructor group.

Overall a fun event, after a corvette wreck (totaled/destroyed) was cleaned up from the 2nd lap of the day....hes ok (2 broken ribs), but he was an instructor tryin to be andretti at 8:30am in 40* track temps.

my LH rear tire wouldnt hold air, kept dropping like 8psi per session so i had to keep refilling ti and dealing with a deflating tire on track....unsafe? yes.....learning experience? of course.

I started taking a few turns with more momentum, and still attempting to control the brakes at the end of the front strait. Locked up the FR RH wheel a few times, but it was manageable with some early soft braking, which also has lead to premature pad destruction....3 full events dealing with this oddball braking and i have gone through a set of pads.....i need to get the car corner balanced and change out the MC for a 1" or 15/16" piston.

Car some very consistent time,s but not very fast once i looked back at my video. Braking is killing me along with the old worn and sort-of-flat tire. So it is understandable, tho not acceptable, i need to switch out my tires and get the brakes under control an di think i can get another few seconds out of the car.

No pics i know of yet, but i do have video that will be posted in a few days. So hang tight, the video is half decent, tho its doesnt show the sweet vibrations from the bad tire.

[turtl631]

***UPDATE***

Cadillac club was a little lax

I'm sure most of the owners are on their way out anyways, what do they have to lose?

[sr20goofus]

it was all CST-V's even a few of the '09's that are supercharged....Fast, heavy with lots of brakes.....tho not much talent behind the wheel.

[sr20goofus]

UPDATE!!!


I have a set of Hawk DTC-60 brake pads on the way for my next event.

I have a new brake MC that is 1" instead of 17/16 to help give me better pedal control, i am hoping this will help reduce front right wheel lock-ups. If it still occurs at the next event i will have to try corner balancing since the only changes i have made to the cars attitude is the suspension, which is fairly level without my fat-as$ in the car. so that sets it off by about 230lbs to the left, leaving the RH side lighter reducing friction applied by the front RH wheel under braking.

My dyno session and data was sent to the RS-enthalpy guys in hopes of correcting my high EGT's. Their diagnosis was a bad knock-sensor causing the ECU to pull timing and fuel which would basically point out my low dyno numbers and high EGT's from leaning out. I have the new knock-sensor and just need to install it along with all my brake goodies and take the car for a little spin to see how much more wonderful it feels.


DYNO CHART and AFR/boost chart:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/Caseypennhptq.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sr20goofus/FMIC/Caseypenn.jpg

enjoy guys, let me know what you think. My video from the last event is taking some time to get done, its an older camera and giving me alot of trouble.

I will have some decent footage with a different camera from my next event on Nov 15-16 at CMP....another new track for me this year, but video shows some good stuff and the event gives me about 12 20min sessions and im not instructing so i should be relaxed and ready to rip.

[2Fass240us]

Nov. 15 & 16 @ CMP huh? You should drop by on the way down.

[sr20goofus]

i may.....depends on how nice you are to me :)

[2Fass240us]

i may.....depends on how nice you are to me :)Don't you have that backwards?

FWIW, it was 1.25 hours from door to door, towing, and that wasn't even taking the best route.

[sr20goofus]

CMP to your house?

[2Fass240us]

CMP to your house?Yes.

addedthisbecausethemessagewastooshort

[Def]

Yes.

addedthisbecausethemessagewastooshort

soundslikeagaysexpartyinvitekthxbye

[sr20goofus]

soundslikeagaysexpartyinvitekthxbye


def you jealous you were not invited? its ok, andy wasnt either, im just stopping by his house on the way down to the real party.

Andy i can deff stop by on the way down, we are leaving friday morning so i could be there harassing you by early afternoon.

[2Fass240us]

Andy i can deff stop by on the way down, we are leaving friday morning so i could be there harassing you by early afternoon.D-oh, I have to be uptown that day. I won't be home until at least 5. LMK what time you're coming through.

If you need a place to crash Sunday night, that'd work too.

Gacob is just jealous.

-Andy

[sr20goofus]

UPDATE!!!!!

It has been a few days since my last event of the season, also being my 10th event, the most i have ever done in a season and prolly wont come close to it next year. Overall its been a great season driving wise, learned tons about my car, on track awareness, picking up more speed, carrying more momentum, and adjusting my driving style depending on how the car is reacting.

Last event of the year was at CMP, Carolina Motorsports Park, about an hour south of Charlotte, NC. At soem point Saturday morning i found a broken Alt. charge wire, quick easy fix, tho not the source of my dead battery. I spent time diagnosing my problems down to the alternator again, which i thought might have somehow gotten fried while the wire was broken. I drove an hour away to pick up another Alt. and got back just when my 3rd session was starting, so i did everything i could to get the Alternator installed and hooked up ready for the afternoon sessions. Mission accomplished and i was out on track for the first time by 2pm and i got in two full incident free sessions.

Sunday morning i start the car up and realize its not charging the battery, so i get back to diagnosing and the same situation with no charge and no broken wires occures, so i start playing with everything and its starts to work. Turns out after missing my morning session that the pins in the plastic connector for the Alt. are loose and or almost broken free from the wires which is causing me to constantly obtin and loose alternator power. Problem found, no real fix at the moment, sadly, but i still go out on track of course because i didnt drive 8hrs to sit on my ass.

On track the course is alot of fun, fairly fast, and super flat. I had to make several adjustments to my line to finally find a place the car would sort of stick, but it was a very soft ride and the car wouldn't react immediately at steering inputs. So i started playing with tire pressures and i also started getting more grip. Finally i figured why my front RH wheel keeps locking up under braking also, deff due to an unbalanced car, front rh corner is the lightest even under braking. I adjusted the front RH coilover down one full rotation to bring more weight under load. and sure enough it was a good temporary fix to get my braking zones more compressed without wheel lock-up.

I played with a few guys on track, one of which being an C5 Z06 with lots of grip and local experience, couldn't keep up for more than a lap or so then he would get by a few cars i couldn't on the same lap. Other car was a R35 GTR all stock for all i know. He caught up to me once i got stuck behind an integra who wouldn't let me by for awhile. So i eventually let him by and tailed him for 3 laps or so until i got in his mirror a lil much and he ended up putting two off and spinning in front of me. Fun track days and met alot of nice people willing to help me figure out my charging issues to get me out on track.

The car runs smoother than ever now that i replaced my knock-sensor which helped it run smoother, except im still on the lean side of the scale with EGT's creeping up on 1600*F, at least according to my gauge which could be wrong. Acceleration out of corners was great, tho i do need to get on the throttle sooner still, but that comes with more seat time at an unknown track, but it was still noted as needing work.

I will be making a few adjustments to the car this winter, tho not as much as last year.

Front sway bar, changing the springs to 10k/8k, adding rear wing (necessary eye sore), and corner balancing. Depending on how my events go next year i may do no other mods all next year execept a digital dash, AiM sports perhapse, or maybe a Stack unit. I need better more reliable engine monitoring than my crappy gauges and stock cluster. We will see how funds and tracking go before i make that plunge tho.

Safety wise i am considering some type of neck support/restraint and a fire-suit. A TT guy i know here that i instruct with died during a NASA event when he lost one of his rear brakes and had a terrible side impact into a wall at the end of a strait at Summit Point. He was on life support for 2 days, he was in fact wearing a 5pnt harness, legal helmet, with foam neck donut, and a harness bar. No damage to any of his safety gear was noted after the accident, but the side impact fractured his neck and left him comatose. Sadly he dies last tuesday, 27yr old Cale Kastenick of Hagerstown, MD.

I dont mean to be a downer, but this is something everyone needs to keep in mind can happen with one small problem, even tho its so very rare for someone to get more than a broken rib or a bruise, it can happen. He was a great driver, very smooth and consistant, leader in TT points for the NASA MA TTC region, no fault of the driver, just plain bad luck.

Safety first everyone, no compromises, and dont cheap out, a few extra bucks spent may save your life one day while out enjoying your hobby.

[ecugrad]

Safety wise i am considering some type of neck support/restraint

Good idea, I have decided that before I hit the track again, I will have some sort of H&N restraint.

Keep an eye out for the folks at Isaac, they are supposed to be coming out with a ~$100 head and neck restraint after the first of the year.

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPages/SuperSecretNewLinkPage.html

[sr20goofus]

Yes i have seen their other design before. And i will be in the market after Christmas for my safety gear and suspension modifications. My brother and I will be doing lots on comparisons and research for what will best suit us as instructors, being in and out of other cars that occasionally have harness's and others have factory seat belts.

[Cory]

I will be adding downforce when I return as well. I plan to do a splitter, front canards (APR), and a rear wing (APR GTC-300). Later, I may do underbody paneling. The only downside is the fact that stiffer springs are necessary. I'm not too worried though, as I am always one to give up comfort for performance.

Aren't you going to add any downforce to the front of the car?

[sr20goofus]

i havnt experienced any front lift situations,and when i get the car balanced im going to have the front lowered more. If i add a splitter i can no longer use the trailer i have, and the convenience of a free trailer over more front downforce outweighs each other.

[Cory]

Most people make thier splitters easily removable for that reason, as well as street driving. I'll probably just keep mine on for street driving though.

[Def]

i havnt experienced any front lift situations,and when i get the car balanced im going to have the front lowered more. If i add a splitter i can no longer use the trailer i have, and the convenience of a free trailer over more front downforce outweighs each other.

I think you'll get some high speed understeer with just a rear wing. If you want something cheap for a splitter, some 1/4" plywood with a few layers of fiberglass cloth is a good cheap material for a splitter.

[Cory]

I agree with Def. I think I would tune my car for a small amount of understeer at the limit because oversteering at high speed seems like a bad thing... Although, I think it would be nearly impossible to have a splitter that creates enough downforce to overpower a good rear wing.

[sr20goofus]

A front splitter does sound like the better method, but if i ever want to race that will most likely bump me up to the ST classing rather than the PTA classing im struggling to stay in meow. I will go back through the points system and see what else im taking points for that i can take back. I was rather generous with removing points in places i feel they would be picky over, so maybe if i bring my car to a real tech guy and see what he has to say. I am not officially going to race next year or the year after yet, i still have alot to learn with the car as is, especially with some weight removal and a little aero added. But i would like to know i am within a certain realm of possibility instead of being booted so a super expensive high HP class.


End of next year i am considering a VQ35 swap, i brought this up to andy a few weeks ago. I know i prolly sounds crazy, but I am a little tired of a turbo setup, its nice and all, but i kind of want to try something new and see how i fair out there with out boost. Same power range, different torque curves im sure, but about the same since i didnt really bump power up at all this year anyways.

Thoughts on my craziness? No worries this is not a trend, i have been thinking about this since i was on track with a friend in his 350Z and he was very quick, we were about matched and he had about 600+ lbs on me.

[2Fass240us]

End of next year i am considering a VQ35 swap...
Thoughts on my craziness?Do


it


now!

[sr20goofus]

I have sent an email to a PT classification guy who will let me know where the VQ engine swap will put me as a base class, if i havnt moved from my original position with the SR, then it will deff be a go for next year. Tho i will be doing all the work myself, no ordering anything but the motorswap, and a haltech unit with harness and then go to town. When not using the factory engine harness and shady work from that craptastic vqswap site i think itll all go well and only leave once person to point the finger at when it doesnt start.

[sr20goofus]

VQ35DE accepted as legal engine swap for 240sx in NASA PT race class. Base class of PTC with base weight of 2800lbs and base dynojet dyno of 237rwhp. Points system will take its toll once the chassis weight comes down.

With this classing and no engine mods besides intake and exhaust I am able to stay in PTA and have some very basic area, wide track width (275 R17 Hoosier R6's on 17x10 +12 wheels under 2" fender flares). I think overall it will be a more reliable engine and a good handling chassis, something good to debut in 2010 i think.

[Def]

How's the pricing on those things now? They've got to be pretty cheap given how long they've been out and how many cars they've come in.

Would you be able to drop weight by restricting power up top? It really wouldn't be that hard to get lots of torque with that thing then have it taper off up high to give you huge midrange and still keep the power down.

[sr20goofus]

i have been told by a friend i can get Engine, trans, accessories, ecu, wiring for like 2500 or less. ECU and wiring do me no good, im not going to waste timee installing the NATS BS so I am going standalone, either Motec M48 or AEM universal. So tuning would be good with either, and as long as i dont make any mods to the stock motor i should be alright, without any turbo lag of anykind the car should be faster through the turns.

[Caithness]

Would you be able to drop weight by restricting power up top? It really wouldn't be that hard to get lots of torque with that thing then have it taper off up high to give you huge midrange and still keep the power down.

On another forum I saw a guy who had tuned his (in this case turbo) car to make exactly the same horsepower from 4-7k. His torque spiked around 4k and tapered off to redline to keep the power the same. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard about HP-based classing, so I thought it was really cool, but he said that the car was quite hard to control with that sharp midrange torque spike.

[sr20goofus]

with the motor all stock, id much rather tune it to be reliable instead of tune it for a specific hp. All that HP and weight stuff is for base classing purposes. Alot of NASA PT, ST and SU rules are based about hp:weight ratio, this way heavier cars can have more power and the lighter chassis guys arnt unlimited in the same group.

If i add cams and say ITB's then ill take points for the modifications in the points system, then ill have to make sure my hp:weight ratio doesnt exceed the minimum allowable limit. Otherwise i get bumped up a class, which usually has cars with more money invested, so i am avoiding that.

[nismofly]

And it wouldn't take all that much to get a VQ up to the level that would put you in ST1, nevermind ST2.

[sr20goofus]

it would cost alot to get the right amount of N/A power out of it, or to get the chassis light enough where the ratio would sway that way. Doable, but i want to stay in PT classing its cheaper to be competitive, but cheaper is also a relative term in the sense of racing.

[nismofly]

I don't know, I'm not talking like well into ST1/competitive power, but just so much that you have to run there. Let's say you're race weight is 2600, that means you need to make less than 300 rwhp to be barely bumped into ST1, and that doesn't look too hard from what Sasha has done on his vert. If you're talking cams and ITB's on top of it, you'd be adding ballast for sure.

[sr20goofus]

i really dont think ill trouble staying heavy race weight, i just have to keep all factory body panels and glass and i should be alright, especially with my heavy self and finished cage, golden race weight of like 2700+. Sasha's long tube headers did give him a favorable gain, a design idea ill have to consider eventually, once i get everything sorted out and see if i can get more power without suffering consequences.

[nismofly]

So you believe in the slightly heavier car with more power theory too, I was always thinking like a sub 2500 lb car with 270 rwhp would be better than a 2900 lb car with 320, but now the more I see cars like this show up the more I'm hearing the opposite, that you're better off with some ballast and running heavier.

It is just because a lot of cars in class are that way without ballast, so you want your car to act similarly?

[sr20goofus]

i dont WANT the weight, it just costs less to keep the car heavier. Not purchasing FRP front end pieces, smashing them on track and them replacing them is a huge amount of saved money. A S13 all stripped out with a full cage and all factory body panels, isnt all that light, just the chassis can be in the 2500-2600 range, but then once you figure race weight is me fully clad in race gear in the car, the race weight is around 2750-2800. I am just being more realistic than anything. I like the idea of simplicity, easy to replace body panels, reliable power, good tune, etc...The points system promotes simplicity to help keep people racing cars built only to a certain point, not all SU cars.

Once i get to the point where i am racing i have no idea what other cars will be in my class. I dont know if there will even be any PTA cars in the NASA MA region next year, i know many showed up at NASA Nationals, but its a bunch of cars modded completely different from each other, no way to predict my competition or competitiveness against them. If all else fails an no one is running PTA at all, ill make the jump up with a few more mods into ST classing, but only if thats the next possible choice for minor competition.

[Def]

Lighter, lower power cars really huff more due to aero drag on straights compared to a heavier, more powerful car.

I think the lighter car will qualify better, but the heavier car will be a better car for a race since it's easier to get setup for a pass when you can pull a bit on a lighter/lower powered car on the straight.

[nismofly]

I asked that guy Kyle with the LS3 FD RX7 about why he wanted to run more power with more weight. He's selling the car but if he'd stuck with the current project he was considering moving down to ST2 and getting an LS1, but he was still planning on running higher power, like 330 rwhp and then carrying the maximum 250 lbs ballast to meet the power to weight ratio.

When I asked him why, he said that the addition of that much ballast to benefit weight distribution was more beneficial than running without the ballast and down the horsepower.

[nismofly]

Lighter, lower power cars really huff more due to aero drag on straights compared to a heavier, more powerful car.

I think the lighter car will qualify better, but the heavier car will be a better car for a race since it's easier to get setup for a pass when you can pull a bit on a lighter/lower powered car on the straight.

That's what I thought, and since at least in the northeast most ST2 cars are like STIs, evos, and vettes, all in the ~3k lb range, you'd be better off closer to them weight wise with the power to compensate. This way you could have a little edge in the corners for faster overall time, but not lose so much on the straights from being down on power.

[sr20goofus]

using the ballast to balance the car out is a method i have heard of before as well, helps alot to lower the CG depending on where you mount it and to help get the cross weights closer to compensate for driver weight and such.

[sr20goofus]

Well boys i finally got the 10k springs i need (freebie) , AND i picked up a used dash display to replace teh factory cluster and my console gauge setup. Used Stack 8100 setup from an old world challenge trans-am. Datalogging abilities, lap timing, sensors, and an unmodified harness, and display ($500). I most likely wont be installing the dash yet, but i will be piecing it all togeatehr and setting it up for a one day install to make it as painless as possible and to minimize down-time.

[McCoy]

Owwww, a Stack... I've been wanting one of those for a while. Probably be a few years down the road though.

[turtl631]

Damn, good deal! I like the Stack units a lot more than the AiM dashes...digi tachs don't do it for me.