School me on S14 suspension setups, please!

[greenman100]

I recently picked up Epstein's KW v3 setup. Unfortunately, I forgot my car came with Z32 rear uprights, and as far as I know KW doesn't make anything for the fork-type Z32 mounts.

:(

So, I need something that uses the standard S14 mount. So far, all I've found is the J30. Q45 and 300zx (obviously) don't work - wrong shock mount type.

So, if the S14 and J30 are my only options, is there an advantage to the J30 setup? Lighter knuckles? Better brake options?

Which setup is going to be easier? What do I need to source to do the conversion? While I'm at it, are there any other upgrades worth doing? I'm the type of guy that likes doing things once instead of three or four times.

Last, but not least, can you guys look at these pictures and the "mod list", and let me know if it looks accurate?

Thanks!

http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0370.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0371.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0373.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0375.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0377.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0382.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0383.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0384.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0385.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0386.JPG
http://fusioncontrolcentre.com/fusioncctim/IMG_0387.JPG

Aluminum 300zx 30mm brakes front and rear
R33 emergency brake cables
Aluminum 300zx rear spindles
Agency Power Brake lines
17/16 300zx Master Cylinder
Axxis Ultimate Ceramic brake pads

Traction Rods - Unknown Brand, came with the car.
RUCA - Unknown Brand, came with the car.
Tension Rods - Unknown Brand, came with the car.
SPC Toe RodsProgress Front and Rear sway bars
SPL steering rack bushings
SPL solid subframe bushings
SPL Tie rods and ends

[Matt93SE]

1. pink is ghey.
2. on the KW coilovers, can you unscrew the end of the damper assy and change the bottom shock mount?

worst-case, you can take the KW mount and the ones on your car to a job-shop and have them machine you something that will fit out of some aluminum/steel tube and weld on a u-bracket to the bottom.
just a thought...

[Def]

I'm betting the thread pitch and size is such that you could get a set of lower z32 type mounts from another set of coilovers. Or just get a few threaded tubes made up at a local machine shop and a fork welded to them for the KWs. Not the cheapest option, but if you find someone willing to do a small job it could work.

[greenman100]

1. pink is ghey.
2. on the KW coilovers, can you unscrew the end of the damper assy and change the bottom shock mount?

worst-case, you can take the KW mount and the ones on your car to a job-shop and have them machine you something that will fit out of some aluminum/steel tube and weld on a u-bracket to the bottom.
just a thought...

Agree about the pink. They'll get repainted.

I don't think it can be unscrewed.

Here's a picture:

http://www.alexchang.net/Ebay/DSC_7705.JPG

I could SolidWorks up a tube and u-bracket, but slip over the shock body? Like, an interference fit? Maybe. I still feel like that's a ghettofab solution compared to swapping uprights.

Does anyone know if there's benefits to the J30 setup? If not, I'll go back to S14.

[greenman100]

I'm betting the thread pitch and size is such that you could get a set of lower z32 type mounts from another set of coilovers. Or just get a few threaded tubes made up at a local machine shop and a fork welded to them for the KWs. Not the cheapest option, but if you find someone willing to do a small job it could work.

I wish. I don't have them in front of me, but I don't think that part threads on.

[Matt93SE]

You could fab a slip-fit tube assembly with fork on the bottom, then clamp it onto the tube. it's not the best solution, but yeah- there's no threaded portion at the bottom to just machine/borrow a threaded fork assembly like what's in the pics of the stuff on the car.

Even to do that, you'd have to cut off the end of the KW assembly which would kill any warranty hopes you had.

[Def]

Yea.. maybe not the best idea to go with those.

There's always the Koni route. :D

[Matt93SE]

Or swap back to s14 uprights. :shrug:

[marcinko]

I had z32 uprights and went back to s14 uprights. The shock mount angle on the z32 uprights is no good on a s14 and it looks like you have polyurethane in those z32 uprights which I've recently discovered is a bad idea.

Get s14 uprights and enjoy the KWs:)

Oh and I like that style tension rod.

[2Fass240us]

+1 on swapping them back out for S14 uprights

[turtl631]

Or get a pair of Def's bearings and then the misaligment is no big deal.

[greenman100]

Or get a pair of Def's bearings and then the misaligment is no big deal.

But then I run into the shock mount issue!

My main questions now are:

Since I'll be swapping uprights, is there any benefit to the J30 setup?

Is there anything I should replace while I'm in there?

[SoSideways]

I was gonna say, while you have everything apart, some Simple Green or Castrol Super Clean + a bucket of water + a brush seem like a good idea.

What I'm trying to say is, your car's dirty lol :D

[greenman100]

I was gonna say, while you have everything apart, some Simple Green or Castrol Super Clean + a bucket of water + a brush seem like a good idea.

What I'm trying to say is, your car's dirty lol :D

ha, yeah, that too. Cleaning and paint I can figure out on my own. :)

[Matt93SE]

I was gonna say, while you have everything apart, some Simple Green or Castrol Super Clean + a bucket of water + a brush seem like a good idea.

Take a jack and jack stands to the car wash FTW.
(and lug wrench... and rain slicker... and face shield...)

[Black R]

I'd like to know the differences between s14 and j30 rear 5lug also...

S14 components are always gone at pull a part, but there are tons of j30's and the prices are super low.

[marcinko]

Or get a pair of Def's bearings and then the misaligment is no big deal.

IMO it still has a negative impact on the rear strut... If you must have z32 uprights on a s14 the best thing to do would be to reweld the shock mount so the angle is not creating unnecessary stress.


Where can I get a set of tension rods like that???? I've been looking for something similar but have found nothing.

[SoSideways]

Doesn't that design place that 1 bolt in single shear, which is still bad?

[greenman100]

IMO it still has a negative impact on the rear strut... If you must have z32 uprights on a s14 the best thing to do would be to reweld the shock mount so the angle is not creating unnecessary stress.


Where can I get a set of tension rods like that???? I've been looking for something similar but have found nothing.

Like mine? I have no idea - they came on the car.

What do you like about them? Maybe I link to something similar?

[marcinko]

I like how it lets the FLCA move up and down freely. The stock style seems like it gives it a slight twist/bind when the suspension travels. Maybe I'm overlooking something?

[turtl631]

IMO it still has a negative impact on the rear strut... If you must have z32 uprights on a s14 the best thing to do would be to reweld the shock mount so the angle is not creating unnecessary stress.


Where can I get a set of tension rods like that???? I've been looking for something similar but have found nothing.

What stress? With a spherical in place, there's no bending moment on the shock. The spherical isnt loaded perfectly axially, but it doesnt matter.

[Def]

IMO it still has a negative impact on the rear strut... If you must have z32 uprights on a s14 the best thing to do would be to reweld the shock mount so the angle is not creating unnecessary stress.


Where can I get a set of tension rods like that???? I've been looking for something similar but have found nothing.

With a spherical on both sides there is no bending moment on the shock. It doesn't "see" any different from a vertical mounting point. Your rear wheel rate drops slightly, but not much compared to a normal shock mounting. Getting rid of the rubber and any binding(which happens with a Z32 upright in anything, it's never perfectly square for all the travel) is probably worth way more than a small angle on the shock mounting.

[hai1206vn]

I like how it lets the FLCA move up and down freely. The stock style seems like it gives it a slight twist/bind when the suspension travels. Maybe I'm overlooking something?
It's the FLCA inner bushing that needs to be spherical, not where tension rod meets FLCA.

[marcinko]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/ImportedPhotos00034-1.jpg
Maybe it's just me but I was not comfortable with that angle. The shock was also binding against other parts of the upright even after some grinding.

That is why some people do this>
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/4605378181_8bfa03b8a7_o.jpg

It's the FLCA inner bushing that needs to be spherical, not where tension rod meets FLCA.

I figured the extra rod end on the tension rod would help with FLCA movement... but as stated probably overlooking the issue.

[ManoNegra]

IMO it still has a negative impact on the rear strut... If you must have z32 uprights on a s14 the best thing to do would be to reweld the shock mount so the angle is not creating unnecessary stress.



Maybe it's just me but I was not comfortable with that angle. The shock was also binding against other parts of the upright even after some grinding.

I figured the extra rod end on the tension rod would help with FLCA movement... but as stated probably overlooking the issue.

Maybe you didn't grind enough?
I just installed a set on my s14
and have no binding problems

[Equinox]

Reakon you could get a pic of the angle and how much you had to grind ManoNegra?

I'll be doing this soon but I'm not keen on welding it. The cross section there is massive.

[cheeky14]

the key to having this work on an S14 is using sphericals at the shockmount, shaving some material from the knuckle shock pickup point (area between fork & knuckle) & also if possible having a wider lower shock fork mount, so as to not have to remove to much material

[marcinko]

Sure I could have probably got it to clear with more grinding and a spherical but you guys don't think that angle has a negative impact? I believe it does.

[AceInHole]

With a spherical, the angle only matters if there's binding or if the housing shifts. Otherwise, it's no worse than the upper mounts which are mounted perpendicular to the shock.

[marcinko]

Any thoughts on possibly adjusting the caster (on the top plate) in the rear to help with the angle? You can see in the pic above there is a good amount of space before it gets too close to the axle.

I'm no engineer but in my mind the load on the shock is not "square" with that angled shock mount creating more stress in the middle of the shock possibly wearing it out quicker... also it seems the shock will not be as efficient at an angle like that... why else would people be correcting/clocking their z32 lower mount on the s14?

Am I once again overthinking things?

[Matt93SE]

That's what the sphericals on the bottom and a pivoting top mount are for. that removes any side loads on the shock assembly. If the top is bolted in place and the strut 'bends' at the bottom, you're going to have uneven loading and side loads on the shaft, which cause premature wear and possible bending.. Look at iBid's recent thread for photos of what happens in that case.

Thus the top and bottom of the strut need to pivot. so what if the spherical isn't perfectly centered at the bottom of the strut. As long as the joint isn't bottomed against anything, then it's not a problem. ideal in a perfect world? no. sufficient? yes.

[marcinko]

I'm not one of those people who can say 'hey if it works it works'

I would like to go back to z uprights one day when there is a solution to the angle but until then I'm sticking to stockers to be safe.

[AceInHole]

I would like to go back to z uprights one day when there is a solution to the angle but until then I'm sticking to stockers to be safe.

The solution to the angle is to run a spherical bearing, which which eliminates any unwanted loading (spherical bearings can only enact loads radially outward from its center). The reason people clock the mount is only to gain more clearance, the same thing that can be achieved by grinding a small portion of the mount. Other than clearance, there is no difference between the clocked and ground mount.

[Def]

Yep, you can't bind the shock with spherical bearings on both ends.

The wheel rate goes down slightly due to the angle, but it's not a very big change.

[AceInHole]

The wheel rate would only go down if the entire spindle was moving on a different path. Just because it's angled doesn't mean the movement is.

[ManoNegra]

Reakon you could get a pic of the angle and how much you had to grind ManoNegra?

I'll be doing this soon but I'm not keen on welding it. The cross section there is massive.

I apologize, I forgot about this thread

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1145/image823.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1817/image824.jpg

****ty phone pics
it's hard to tell but I have about .100" clearance to the forks