12.2" Rotor, Wilwood Forged Superlite kit - S13/S14/Z32

[Def]

Installation Instructions

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8826/wwassyorgjpeg.jpg

The hard anodizing builds up about a 0.001" thick layer, so it is advisable to run a lubricated bolt through the brackets fully before installation. This will give a proper bolt preload for the torque upon installation.

Let me know if you guys have any questions about the instructions.

UPDATE 12-11

Kits are in my hands and shipping out rapidly, expect yours soon (if you paid). I'll announce post-GB kits that are available for sale after the GB kits have shipped.

ENGINEERING DETAILS Added 9-2

The design goal for the hat was a semi-floating design(the best possible with the Wilwood rotors - they cannot be fully floating in the space available). With this in mind, I have allowed for a radial slot where the rotor mounts to the hat that is equal to the thermal expansion between the two materials(iron and aluminum) at a plus or minus 1000 deg F delta. Therefore, the rotor and hat should be able to freely expand and contract at their different material-defined rates with minimal binding. This should keep the rotor from wanting to grow into a "cone" shape that the Wilwood hats force due to being solidly held on one side(threaded into the hats). The hat design keeps the cross sectional area high at all stress paths, yet uses a minimal amount of material. The total weight of the hat is 1.53 lbs, and the rotational inertia is about 40% less than the typical "flat cup" Wilwood rotor hat.

The hardware kit uses mechanically deformed mil-spec lock nuts, as well as spring washers to maintain tension.

The caliper bracket is made from 2024-T3 aluminum alloy, which has exceptional fatigue resistance as well as hardness and yield strength approaching that of mild steels and surpassing that of most grades of cast iron. This is a true structural "aircraft" alloy of aluminum, and is exactly what most bulkheads are made of in modern aircraft. The large cross sectional section enables a very stiff and strong bracket, and the usage of aluminum keeps the weight below 0.3 lbs.

...and don't worry, it's all been scienced:

http://a.imageshack.us/img256/197/wilwoodbracketfea.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img101/759/wilwoodbracketfea2.jpg

Don't worry about the distorted looking bracket - CATIA magnifies things around 1000x to make displacement visible. This FEA run was a rough assumption of Superman-style S chassis performance and its effect on the bracket. The loading assumption was all braking on the front wheels with 25" tires and total braking decelleration of a 3000 lb S-chassis at 1.5 G's. That would put actual real world braking in the ~1.8-2G range for this loading case. Max loads are around 8 ksi, which is a reasonable level for long term fatigue life without unncessary bulk(there isn't much room for a larger bracket honestly). So you should be able to pull ~2 G's under braking about 10-100 million times without worry. I just want to actually see one of you guys pull that much braking force somewhere. :D

Total displacement at the lug mounting holes is about 0.0015" at this braking, so very low. The stock spindle is going to be deflecting more than that I suspect.

The FEA analysis did bring about a few design minor design changes, so they're not just pretty pictures.

Pushing it beyond the S-chassis aftermarket "well it works I guess" phase, kids!


INITIAL POST

Got the v2 brackets in(that are designed to actually fit... amazing concept!). Here's some brake pron:

http://a.imageshack.us/img529/1755/img0662i.jpg

Brackets are made from 2024-T3 "aircraft aluminum" - this is the same stuff they use to make bulkheads and brackets in aircraft due to its high strength and fatigue resistance. Hats are 6061-T6 to keep the cost reasonable.

http://a.imageshack.us/img716/2121/img0664e.jpg

You know it, son!

http://a.imageshack.us/img59/384/img0665h.jpg

The rotors will be held to the hat with Grade 8 bolts, high temperature spring washers(belleville washers), and military spec "jet nuts." These are high temperature, vibration resistant nuts used on military aircraft. They're also the same nuts PFC uses on all their brake kits.

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/7562/img0666e.jpg

Back side

http://a.imageshack.us/img251/4671/img0667oa.jpg

If you want to add Speedbleeders to your Wilwood FSL calipers - here's the Russell p/n(it/s a 1/4-28 bleeder). So now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


"So how's it all look Def?" you ask - budget baller of course!

http://a.imageshack.us/img821/9255/img0672c.jpg


But does it all fit well? You bet your ugly ass it does!

http://a.imageshack.us/img90/3931/img0670c.jpg

Pistons are fully retracted on both sides. As you can see - fitment is perfect.


Bracket looks budget baller:

http://a.imageshack.us/img688/6199/img0673i.jpg



GB run will have both the hat and bracket hard anodized a gunmetal grey.


Pricing for (2) hats and (2) brackets is $320, (1) mil-spec rotor hardware kit is $30. Shipping is an extra $15. The final kit pricing(before shipping) of $350 included EVERYTHING you need to bolt the below-linked calipers and rotors to your car. It is a bolt-on kit that anybody can install with a few hand tools.

Parts list and price breakdown vs. the $1000 Wilwood kit for S13/S14:

Def's kit:

Hat + brackets = $320
Rotor Hardware Kit = $30 <---Hat + Bracket + Hardware kit is what the GB is for!
WIL-120-11133 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-11133/) FSL Caliper (x2) = $150x2 = $300
WIL-160-2894 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/) 12.2x1.25" rotor (R) = $42
WIL-160-2895 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/) 12.2x1.25" rotor (L) = $42
Wilwood BP-10 pads(although I recommend Hawks) = $60


Total = $794 (comparing to what Wilwood kit comes with)

Wilwood's kit street price is over $200 more for a 12.9x1.1" rotor kit with the same calipers. Wilwood leaves you also needing to purchase the lines, and for that I recommend the WIL-220-9199 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-220-9199/) ($60)brake line kit if it's in stock. I can post up specs for fittings and line lengths if you want to save approximately $15 and build your own(they're identical when it's all said and done).

Advantages of this kit

1. Weight savings - Save approximately 18-20 lbs over a 30mm Z32 front setup, about 25-27 lbs over an EVO/STi Brembo setup
2. Low running costs - $42 rotors, and pads that are ~40% thicker and about 40-50% cheaper than Z32 pads will have the kit paying for itself if you track your car. Let the huge economies of scale of the circle track guys work for you!
3. Race bred caliper design - lighter and most likely stiffer than a Z32 caliper - the Forged Superlite is good stuff.
4. More brake cooling up front - the cooling channel in these wider rotors and directional vanes pump a huge amount more air than Z32 front brakes. This should keep brake temps down all things equal.

Alternative brake pads I recommend(LPIRacing does free shipping for any order over $100 - definitely a bargain! I get all my pads from these guys!):

-Hawk HT-10 for track usage - low cost, more difficult to bed (http://www.lpiracing.com/HB521S-800-Hawk-HT10-Race-Brake-Pads-759p11080.htm)
-Hawk HPS for street usage (http://www.lpiracing.com/HB521F-800-Hawk-HPS-Street-Brake-Pads-759p11079.htm)
-Hawk DTC-60 for track usage - easy bedding (http://www.lpiracing.com/HB521G-800-Hawk-DTC-60-Race-Brake-Pads-759p11075.htm)

I'll be taking orders for a few weeks then start production. If you want the rotor hats and brackets, I highly suggest jumping in on the GB. I do not expect to have significant extras.

Parts Price = $320+30 = $350

Shipping is $15 in the lower 48 states. Contact me for overseas shipping quotes.

List:
*No "4 lug" notation means you are signed up for 5 lug(5x114.3) hats

1. McCoy
2. annoyed
3. No Rotr
4.
5. Ando
6. Scole - 4 lug
7. s13_wave
8. Dark horse
9. Ross
10. Geno
11. mattah
12. g81981
13. SoSideways
14. Ruff Ryder 6
15. Sleepy_Steve
16. Bumnah
17. 240ian
18. Zhanshi
19. oldschoolrice
20. Buddha
21. Equinox
22. koeprototypes

Total: 21

[Black R]

Just out of curiosity, how do these compare to evo brembo brakes?

[Def]

I guess I did forget weight.

In a nutshell, they are generally going to be the same cost or cheaper than a set of EVO/STi/G35/350Z Brembos, and save you about 22-25 lbs up front(imagine getting a wheel that is 12 POUNDS lighter - that's huge), and they're roughly the same size(EVO Brembos are ~12.6"x1.18" - so the Wilwoods are a little smaller in diameter, but wider which equals more cooling).

They save about 18-20 lbs over 300ZX/Z32 30mm brakes. So you're saving right about 10 lbs per wheel and getting a wider rotor that's 1.2" larger in diameter.

[turtl631]

Notice the lustrous, milky finish on the trick aluminum parts, that's from the WP....whoops wrong site.








It's almost mindblowing that these save that much weight and aren't made of papier-mache. Perfect option for the track frequenting 240SX enthusiast!

[McCoy]

Just out of curiosity, how do these compare to evo brembo brakes?
Besides what def just mentioned about weight, don't forget that the pad and rotor costs are less for the wilwood setup and you are getting new calipers vs some eve takeoffs. Food for thought...

For what it's worth I'll be paying for my set as soon as he's ready to take payments!

[Def]

Yes, pad cost is about 50-65% of the average OEM caliper fitment for track pads, and the pads are thicker for the Wilwood FSLs. Just put a wheel on, and MB Weapons clear by a mile. I stuck my whole hand between the spokes and the caliper - so I don't see anybody having an issue with caliper clearance.

[cdlong]

what about wheel diameter? what's the smallest that will fit?

[Def]

I'll post up a pic of them under my wheels tomorrow. I imagine they'd fit any 16's, maybe a few 15's, but that's pushing it. I'm going to say as long as you have about 13.25-13.5" of diametrical clearance where the caliper would sit(roughly right above the wheel bearing), then they should fit just fine.

[WorkInProgressK]

Nice kit.

But you always have to start a GB when I am out of cash ^^. 4 more weeks till the first pay..

[Ruff Ryder 6]

I'd need to know if these would fit under z32 16's. I use those fir autocross and don't want to switch to these and not be able to use those wheels anymore.

[Def]

I'm pretty sure they'll fit inside the wheel, and the spoke to caliper clearance is VERY similar to a set of Z32 brakes. I'd say at most you might need a thin spacer for a tad of caliper to spoke clearance.

[Def]

I'll go ahead and start a list. I don't plan to keep this open forever, so go ahead and show interest if you're serious. Payment will be due in a few weeks.

1. McCoy 1 set

[SoSideways]

I'm curious... these calipers look thinner than Z32 30mm calipers. How much thinner are these?

I could use the extra few millimeters in clearance, so I don't have to run a 7mm spacer up front to fit the bigger and badder brakes if I don't have to!

[WorkInProgressK]

Def what is the pad number or shape, I want to try to see how much the pads would cost locally.

[Def]

They use the Wilwood 7420 shape(.800" thick). Hawk number HB521(referred to as Superlite bridge bolt).

I'll take some measurements later tonight for those that are curious of fitment.

[SoSideways]

Thanks Def!

[annoyed]

count me in on a set, will be assured to stash away some monies for this. thanks

[McCoy]

But you always have to start a GB when I am out of cash ^^. 4 more weeks till the first pay..
The nice part about this GB is that you only have to buy the one part of it right now... the rest (calipers, rotors, lines, etc) can be purchased when you have the funds :)

[Tower240sx]

FWIW I put a set of the EVO brembos under my Z32 16's on my track car with about a 5/8 spacer...(because I made the brackets and had the calipers on hand for measurements)....these will easily fit diametrically under 16" z32's you may need a small spacer but most likely not, as they mount in the same plane as the Z32's and are smaller in width if anything.

[McCoy]

For more information on the Forged Superlite caliper, here's the specs page from Wilwood. The width of the caliper is only 5.55" in width. A random picture I found on the internet of a ruler sitting on a Z32 caliper shows it to be about 5 to 5.2" in width, so worse case the superlites will stick out an addition .27". Of course the picture is hard to read, so I'm hoping they are actually wider than the superlites.

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl120.pdf

[Matt93SE]

They're pretty close in fittment. Can't remember which takes up more room, but they're both pretty close. I used to have some pics of my FN01s at 17x8+35 with both calipers on the same rotor, but I can't find them anymore. one cleared by about 1/4" and the other cleared by about 1/8".

suffice it to say if your wheels clear Z32 calipers by a 1/4" which is pretty common anymore, then you shouldn't have a problem with these.

[SoSideways]

I guess I'll go out and measure the Z32 calipers when I'm out in the garage tonight.

[Def]

This is an approximate value, as it's hard to get an accurate value with just a tape measure.

I measured the Z32 calipers as going out 4.375" from the outboard face of the caliper mounting ears.

The FSL-4 goes out 4.335" according to Wilwood's dimension sheet(which is accurate to +/- 0.030").

What does that mean? This kit gives essentially IDENTICAL wheel spoke to outboard caliper face clearance.

I don't see any wheels that can fit a Z32 30mm front caliper having any issue fitting these.

[Def]

Nice kit.

But you always have to start a GB when I am out of cash ^^. 4 more weeks till the first pay..

Like Monty said - keep in mind you can always just buy the bracket + hat now, then source the Wilwood pieces later.

[WorkInProgressK]

I just love my brake bias at the moment..... Silvia fronts, z32 backs. HP+ at every corner. Anyway I am already in debt because of the turbo...:P

So when you need the payment?

[Jonty]

sorry it's off topic chaps, but my tenuous link is that they've been mentioned a few times in this thread and others; can anyone direct me to the info on Z32 uprights? I can't seem to find a thread on it, but it sounds like something that lots of people are familiar with- If they offer an unsprung weight advantage then I'm interested, but need them to fit on my S14 with R33 rear brakes and S14 Driftworks CS2 coilovers....

Def, back on topic: with these brakes is there any plan for making a kit to fit a larger disk? I've got R33 brakes which are alloy calipers and 323mm (I think?) disks, and I'd really only want to swap for something larger diameter (say 345mm ish, or as big as I can get under 17" R33 GTR alloys) as for a given pad compound and level of deceleration performance the pad temps have got to be higher, and I'm really looking to build reliability into everything on the car, so right now this kit it looks to be the wrong direction to go for me.

Cheers,
Jonty

[Def]

Z32 uprights save 6-7 lbs per rear side. They swap right in, and just need a fork style mount on the bottom of the shock.

No plans to design something around a larger diameter rotor. I think this is enough for 99.999% of S chassis out there, and the cost/running expense would go up exponentially. The whole point of this is the biggest bang for the buck brake upgrade period.


As far as performance increase, this kit will probably save ~25 lbs over R33 brakes. I'd call that a pretty big performance increase. :D

Imagine going from a 20 lb wheel to an 8 lb wheel...

[Def]

I don't have a firm date on payment in mind since I'm just doing this on NRR. If you are interested but want to chat about options, feel free to pm me. I'd like to think I'm pretty flexible on this stuff since we're all enthusiasts here. :)

[SoSideways]

I measured the 30mm Z32 calipers off my car last night.

From inboard face to the outboard face (I took into account the raised up "Nissan" letters too), excluding the nubs for the brake lines, it was about 5.75". If you include the brake line nubs, it's about 6" in total from inboard to outboard face.

I didn't even think about measuring from the mounting ear to the outboard face. I guess when I go out to bolt everything back up from the passenger's side front tonight I will do that.

[koukimonster]

this is awesome! As a guy with q45 brakes, I would love to shed some unsprung weight....money is tight though, maybe I'll get lucky on a lotto ticket, maybe even a scratch-off...:)

[No Rotr]

Def count me in on the group buy.

[James]

Def, I'm in also if your able to do the hats in 4 lug for me.

Cheers

James

[Jonty]

As far as performance increase, this kit will probably save ~25 lbs over R33 brakes. I'd call that a pretty big performance increase. :D

Imagine going from a 20 lb wheel to an 8 lb wheel...
cheers for the Z32 upright info mate.

Yes the weight drop definitely sounds like a performance improvement, but I think I will look to doing it with 324/345mm discs to use the R33 calipers so I get the majority of the performance increase/weight decrease that your kit offers whilst still reducing the pad temps... long term I have a pipe dream of competing in endurance events, so want to build a spec that can basically run a new set of slicks into the ground in one go...

[onosqv]

Very cool!

Do you happen to know how this will change brake bias compared to:

- All Stock S13/S14 brakes all around?

- Z32 brakes all around w/ 17/16 bmc?

I would love to shave the unsprung weight, but I would prefer not to have to play w/ brake bias until way down the road.

- Do you plan on making something similar for the rear in the future?

- This GB is just for the hat, bracket, and hardware kit, correct? Just wanted to confirm.

[SoSideways]

Yes, Def does not provide any of the Wilwood pieces, those are sourced by the end user.

[Def]

Very cool!

Do you happen to know how this will change brake bias compared to:

- All Stock S13/S14 brakes all around?

- Z32 brakes all around w/ 17/16 bmc?

I would love to shave the unsprung weight, but I would prefer not to have to play w/ brake bias until way down the road.

- Do you plan on making something similar for the rear in the future?

- This GB is just for the hat, bracket, and hardware kit, correct? Just wanted to confirm.

I'll provide more detailed bias info in the original post later, but the short story is with Z32 rears, this kit gives very close to stock overall bias(I.e. Same bias as stock rotors and calipers all around).

A full Z32 setup frt and rear gives slightly more rear bias than stock, and piston area is similar between the 1.63" piston FSL and Z32 front calipers. So hydraulic bias is about the same. The larger lever arm of the larger rotors gives more front bias due to mechanical advantage.

The bias will be very similar to a Z32 front caliper on a 350Z track rotor.


All that said, if you want different bias, Wilwood offers this caliper in a variety of piston diameters. The one I linked is the best fit for a stock BMC S chassis though.

For BMC diameters, any of the usual 15/16-17/16" bores will work fine since these have similar piston area to a Z32 front.

[Tower240sx]

Def, I'm in also if your able to do the hats in 4 lug for me.

Cheers

James


James 4-lug can be accommodated only because I'm a nice guy

Mike

[Def]

James 4-lug can be accommodated only because I'm a nice guy

Mike

And there's your answer. Didn't even take any sweet talking either.

[Ando]

Please add my name to the list. I would like to buy the full set up, brackets hats and rotors and calipers if that is available(speed bleeders too?). Much easier to source everything from one spot. Might be a little extra for shipping over the ocean. Also I want the four lug option, too. I am prepared to sweet talk if required ;)

money is set aside for payment.

[Def]

I guess I wasn't clear on what exactly the GB entails. I am only selling the brackets and hats to make off the shelf components work on our cars. The off the shelf Wilwood components are up to the end user to source.

[scole]

In for a 4-lug set.

[wave_s13]

I'm in as well. (5-lug)

[Dark horse]

Whoohoo, I'm in for a set too!
(5 lug)

[Ando]

I guess I wasn't clear on what exactly the GB entails. I am only selling the brackets and hats to make off the shelf components work on our cars. The off the shelf Wilwood components are up to the end user to source.

That's fine. Do you have a supplier for the other parts that you reccomend?

[McCoy]

That's fine. Do you have a supplier for the other parts that you reccomend?
He did, just click on the part numbers in the first post and it'll take you to Summit Racing...

[WorkInProgressK]

Oh, fu.....I didnt think about that. Do I go 4 or 5.....

[Tower240sx]

Go 3 lug all the pimps are doing it

[McCoy]

Go 3 lug all the pimps are doing it
I think you should just drill the hats full of holes (swiss cheese style), to cover EVERY possible lug combo. And you can call the extra holes weight reduction as a bonus... shouldn't affect the strength of the hat to much :)

[No Rotr]

How are you going to make it possible for the 4 lug guys? I really don't want extra holes in my hats. I vote 5 lug only.

[Tower240sx]

I'm gonna handle it and not make compromises like I always do. geeeesh

the 4 lug hats will have 4 holes the 5 lug hats will have 5 holes, exactly 4 and 5 holes respectively

[SoSideways]

What about if someone wanted to put these on their truck? 6 holes?

j/k hahaha

[Geno]

I was too lazy to read all 6 pages to find this out. Can we buy the hats and brackets separate from the calipers and lines? I'm too broke at the moment (too many deals on car parts lately D: ) to be able to buy the entire thing in one go.

[Tower240sx]

I'm sure DEF would work with you on that...


HOWEVER: with out the caliper mount brackets the hats won't do you alot of good.
as they won't work for any other fitments but together AFAIK (and i'm doing the machine work so I "think" i know)

you don't however have to buy the calipers and rotors now this GB is just for the custom aluminum pieces

[Def]

This is a group buy. I wasn't really planning on keeping large inventory of these parts around to sell forever.

I'll pm you though and maybe we can work something out.

[wave_s13]

How are you going to make it possible for the 4 lug guys? I really don't want extra holes in my hats. I vote 5 lug only.

Was wondering the same.

[McCoy]

I'm gonna handle it and not make compromises like I always do. geeeesh

the 4 lug hats will have 4 holes the 5 lug hats will have 5 holes, exactly 4 and 5 holes respectively

^^^ This...

How are you going to make it possible for the 4 lug guys? I really don't want extra holes in my hats. I vote 5 lug only.

Was wondering the same.Was wondering the same.

[Def]

We'll just make a given bolt pattern for each hat.

[Geno]

I misread, I just want the hats and brackets. I somehow read this as hats, brackets, calipers and all the other bits.

[Def]

Well that's all I'm selling, so looks like we're on the same page. I take it you want a set of 5 lug hats + brackets + hardware kit?

[Geno]

Well that's all I'm selling, so looks like we're on the same page. I take it you want a set of 5 lug hats + brackets + hardware kit?

Yes, yes I do. :D

[mattah]

Def put me down for one set also. I'm sure if I miss out on this now I will regret it later.

[turtl631]

Can I have a fedora with 13 holes drilled in it and a bracket to attach an F1 wing to the trunk of my ///M3? I'll pay you later.

[Def]

I'll probably keep the ordering phase open for a few more days then collect payment shortly thereafter.

I'm thinking next Friday 9-3 as the payment date. Expect the kit to ship out from me about 6-8 weeks later(machining + anodizing + shipping time).

[WorkInProgressK]

Def can you check if you can do a 4-5 bolt one? if its safe. I would like that more because I am not sure if I will be going 5 bolt this year.

[g81981]

Put me down for a set for 5-lug. PM me for more information.

[Def]

Def can you check if you can do a 4-5 bolt one? if its safe. I would like that more because I am not sure if I will be going 5 bolt this year.

I'd rather not do that. One or two of the holes always end up very close to another when doing that. I'm pretty sure it'd be fine, but you're definitely asking for something to yield there over time if it was ever going to fail. I don't like to mess around with brake stuff, so I try to always err on the side of safety.

Sorry if that messes your plans up, but I'd rather turn someone away than see their brakes fail.

[WorkInProgressK]

I could still get it and do it my self. But no worry I wanted to ask your opinion. I know Iron is strong enough, but aluminium I wouldn't be sure.

[Def]

6061-T6 aluminum in the hats is probably just as strong as the iron used in the brake rotors - maybe even stronger. Normally the clamping force of the wheel keeps them in place through friction, but if something did happen to start loading the lug holes, I'd hate for something to fail. Aluminum also keeps fatiguing and losing strength vs. iron/steel. Not a problem considering it maintains about 50% of its strength with ~1million cycles(guessing here, I don't remember the exact values - it drops to ~25% at 10 million cycles and almost flatlines out there). So basically I design around that far far away fatigue/endurance limit(even though aluminum technically doesn't have one).

It's probably fine... it's still not something I'd like to do just because it IS creating a "failure point" if the lug holes ever get loaded.

[2Fass240us]

I don't know what this says about us as a board, but I only sold one set of my brackets, and those are being sold now.

[Def]

I don't know what this says about us as a board, but I only sold one set of my brackets, and those are being sold now.

I think your brackets look nice, but I think this is a higher performance solution for a little more up front cost and probably lower maintenance costs in the long run. No offense intended, just two different solutions catering to two different segments of the market.

[2Fass240us]

It's just interesting when the SilviaV8 guys ate them up.

Plus, everyone knows that rotors <12.20" are for suckas.

[Def]

No boat anchor rotors in this thread. Move along now... :D

[jmauld]

Andy, most of the guys here don't have enough HP to require the larger rotor that your kit works with.

For those people with lesser hp the lighter weight upgrade does make sense.

[mattah]

Andy, most of the guys here don't have enough HP to require the larger rotor that your kit works with.

For those people with lesser hp the lighter weight upgrade does make sense.

Yep, the light weight was the most appealing part of it for me. I'm running only just over 200hp and I'm trying to get the car under 2200 pounds.

[Equinox]

Would these handle a 340rwhp car running R-comps doing sprints? (Couple of hot laps at a time)

[marcinko]

I'm guessing the 6-piston superlite calipers wouldn't work with these rotors/brackets?

[2Fass240us]

4- and 6-piston Superlites are pretty much interchangeable

[jmauld]

Would these handle a 340rwhp car running R-comps doing sprints? (Couple of hot laps at a time)

I think you will be pushing them close to their limit. You might be fine since you're only doing sprints? But I would wait for Def to answer the question since it's his work.

[jmauld]

Yep, the light weight was the most appealing part of it for me. I'm running only just over 200hp and I'm trying to get the car under 2200 pounds.

I might be mistaken on this, but I think brake requirements are basically related to hp, and not so much the weight of the car. A 200hp, 2200 lb car is going to be going a lot faster than a 200hp, 3800lb car at the end of the straight, so the brakes will still be doing a similar amount of work.

This is putting aside any cornering advantage that might allow one car to go through the corner quicker and therefore not use as much brake going into it.

[Tower240sx]

you decelerate the weight of the car not the HP of the car....so it's a two way street.

You need more brake to pull a 3200# car down from 100 mph than a 2200# car,

But it takes more HP to get it there

so yeah...that didn't help at all did it... glad I could be of service

I'll go get some coffee now

[wave_s13]

Would these handle a 340rwhp car running R-comps doing sprints? (Couple of hot laps at a time)

I would like to know as well, as my setup is similar.

[SoSideways]

Just pump coolant through the calipers like they do on the WRC cars and you'll be fine :D

I am on the fence about this still, because I didn't make as much money on this side job I took this weekend as I thought I was going to...

But if I do get this stuff... what color are you going to anodize the hats Def?

[wave_s13]

Just pump coolant through the calipers like they do on the WRC cars and you'll be fine :D

I am on the fence about this still, because I didn't make as much money on this side job I took this weekend as I thought I was going to...

But if I do get this stuff... what color are you going to anodize the hats Def?


"Hats and brackets will be hard anodized. The color is sometimes hard to get with a true hard anodize(vs. a cosmetic anodize) - but I'm going to tell them to aim for a gunmetal grey."

From my PM question :)

[SoSideways]

Gotcha.

Thanks.

[Matt93SE]

you decelerate the weight of the car not the HP of the car....so it's a two way street.

You need more brake to pull a 3200# car down from 100 mph than a 2200# car,

But it takes more HP to get it there

so yeah...that didn't help at all did it... glad I could be of service

I'll go get some coffee now


At the end of the day, it's HP that determines brake requirements. Def and I went round and round about this a year or so ago, but at the end of the day, your only energy input is HP. your only way to remove that energy is by converting it into heat in the brakes. there are some other variables that come into play (wind resistance, rolling friction, aero, brake cooling, etc) but the jist of it is that the brakes have to stop the HP, not the weight.

Weight matters on a single stop. Lapping at a race track is completely different and is HP dependent. lots of other threads on the subject so I won't waste the time going through the math again (mainly cause I'm too damn tired to think after working a 16 hr day and climing about 2000 stairs carrying 80lb of cargo the whole way..)

[Matt93SE]

Would these handle a 340rwhp car running R-comps doing sprints? (Couple of hot laps at a time)
I would like to know as well, as my setup is similar.

Not a problem at all. You'll just have to go to a full race pad compound, but they'll handle that kind of power all day long. They'll handle a 500hp car running all day long, assuming you don't run them out of brake pad.

[Equinox]

Not a problem at all. You'll just have to go to a full race pad compound, but they'll handle that kind of power all day long. They'll handle a 500hp car running all day long, assuming you don't run them out of brake pad.

Ah cool. Any recommendations on pad compound? I've only run local stuff or Project Mu; nothing from the states yet.

[Def]

Would these handle a 340rwhp car running R-comps doing sprints? (Couple of hot laps at a time)

I don't see why they will not hold up to that much power or more for essentially ever as long as you've got the pad to back it up.

I make about 300-320 rwhp on track, and I don't forsee ANY issues running 20-30 min sessions in 100+ deg F ambient temps and only SPL tension rod deflectors as "brake cooling."

Keep in mind these brakes have a cooling channel that's almost twice as wide as a stock Z32 rotor and directional vanes. In reality, the rotor will probably pump ~200-300% more air than an OEM rotor. This will do a lot to keep things cooler.

This is a kit that should handle the braking needs of 99.9% of the S chassis that hit the track. Just pair them with a track pad and have at it. Like I said, a Hawk HT-10 or DTC-60 is what I like, but if you've got some other brand, buy their TRACK pad(not dual duty) and you should be fine on track and get tons of life from them due to them being about 60% thicker than stock pads.

[Def]

"Hats and brackets will be hard anodized. The color is sometimes hard to get with a true hard anodize(vs. a cosmetic anodize) - but I'm going to tell them to aim for a gunmetal grey."

From my PM question :)

Yep, aiming for a medium-dark grey anodize. This will be a true mil-spec hard anodize, not just some cosmetic junk.

[Tower240sx]

What he said, I'll be sending it to the same plating co. that we use to plate parts for JPL/NASA Boeing Satellite Systems etc.

MIL-A-8625 Type III "Hard Anodized"

[2Fass240us]

What he said, I'll be sending it to the same plating co. that we use to plate parts for JPL/NASA Boeing Satellite Systems etc.

MIL-A-8625 Type III "Hard Anodized"nice...
I made another change that should be well-received: I upgraded the finish from a Type II anodize to a Type III hard anodize that increases both scratch and chemical resistance. It just so happens it also meets military specs (MIL-A-8625, Type III, Class 2) for anyone interested. :D The color should be the same as the first batch, although the process itself may produce a small bit of color variation from batch to batch.
I made this switch per Estevan's recommendation, and am glad I did.

[Sleepy_Steve]

This seems like such a good thing to blow my paypal balance on...

[SoSideways]

Damn it...

Just sucks that I have my wife's birthday coming up this month (September) and the fact that I didn't make as much money as I'd hope this past weekend, really makes it hard for me to spend the money on this... but then again, this is probably the ONLY time this will be done anytime in the near future, so I guess it's now or never.

Put me down for a set Def, plus the hardware :)

[2Fass240us]

I didn't make as much money as I'd hope this past weekendWorking the corner?

[SoSideways]

Yes.

There were some corners involved.

And there were lots of ports being plugged in.

[Black R]

Dammit!

Why didn't you make these last year???

I bought $300 evo brembo takeoffs, along with the $100 new rotor and pad set on eBay...

I thought I was going to have the overkill brakes that fit under 17" wheels...

Now I have to dump it all to save some weight thanks to you!

[SoSideways]

words...

Now I have to dump it all to save some weight thanks to you!

That last bit reminded me of the Dos Equis commercial where they were like "if he punched you in the face, you would have to fight off the urge to thank him."

hahahahahaha

[Tower240sx]

Black R,

did you even get to use those EVO brackets I sold you?

well now you can put the whole kit up on $!%^!&.net and probably fund this kit entirely...lol that's what I'll be doing as I have the brembo's on my track car now.

Some people are wheel whores, I'm starting to feel like maybe a brake whore...I have 3 sets of brakes for my one car...and now I'll buy a 3rd...

[Matt93SE]

I have no idea what you're talking about...
http://blehmco.com/stuff/wheels.jpg
I've bought.. umm... 5 more sets since that photo.

[Def]

Updated the list. Let me know if I've overlooked your name and you want to get added.

Feel free to pass the word along to people that you have the confidence to follow directions well enough to bolt a hat and rotor together. :D

[Ruff Ryder 6]

ok i want in on this too. weight savings ftw. I'll just sell off my 3 sets of Z32's

edit: 5x114.3 hats, brackets, and hardware

[Sleepy_Steve]

Well, I may be sitting on them for a while, but its on my to-do list for the car.

Sign me up for a set of 5x114.3 hats, brackets and mounting hardware.

[Black R]

Black R,

did you even get to use those EVO brackets I sold you?


Never received any...

[Equinox]

A couple more questions.

I see Wilwood also sell an 'HD' line of rotor in the same size which is gaurenteed to have less than 1thou runout out of the box. Does that suggest if I order the normal 'UL' model ones that they will come with more than 1thou runout?! That's quite large.

Should I slot these things? Or just run them as plain face rotors? I can get them CNC-slotted locally for a decent price but I don't know if it'd be worth it.

Thanks for putting in the time to offer this kit Def.

[Def]

Mine don't appear to have excessive runout. There's a small amount, but not any worse than any other new rotor. They will typically smooth out a bit with wear.

The HD rotor has a little bit thicker rotor face IIRC(these are between 1/4-5/16" IIRC on each side), and I think they probably just machine them on a better lathe. That said, the machining on the non-HD rotors looks better to the semi-trained eye than any aftermarket OE rotor I've had(Brembo, Powerslot, any of the cheaper brands etc).

[Def]

I wouldn't slot the rotors personally. I think it's more a cosmetic thing, and has as many disadvantages(aggressive pad wear) as advantages(keeps the pad from glazing in some situations).

[Equinox]

Cool thanks for that. Yeah I have definately noticed more agressive pad wear while running slotted rotors on my current setup vs plain rotors. Never had an issue with glazing on the plain ones either.

[SOneThreeCoupe]

I have the AZCar front and rear brake upgrade, but I've always felt constrained by small pad size and large mounting lug width. Also, it doesn't really work with my LCAs and I've never been totally stoked about the mounting; seems flimsy.

Would this be a good choice, or am I just throwing (more) money down a hole? Is the FSLI a more rigid caliper than the Forged Dynalite?

Maybe I should just buy it and find out. It isn't that expensive...

[Def]

The FSL is definitely a stiffer caliper with a larger pad than a Dynalite.

My brake pedal feels as stiff as the Z32 calipers I had on there before - which is "super stiff" in relative terms.

[Ando]

A couple of quick questions
Master Cylinder?
Stock sized good enough, or is a replacement recommended?
My plan was to run the stock MC and add an Adjustable proportioning valve to the rear circuit and remove the stock proportioning inside the distribution block. Then adjust MC size according to brake feel if necessary. I have stock rears, and I do not forsee any future upgrades.

Def- Does $15 shipping to my 96741 zip code still hold or is some extra required?

BTW Summit has The Polymatrix E pad for this Caliper if anyone has any thoughts on that.
WIL-15E-6084K (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-15E-6084K/)

[Matt93SE]

I noticed a HUGE difference in pedal stiffness when I change from non-forged Dynalites to FSL. I also changed piston sizes which made the pedal stiffer, but I noticed the caliper didn't visibly flex as much when I had the wife helping me bleed the brakes...

also note some of the spongy pedal on the dynalites could be the pads you're using. my pedal was ALWAYS soft with Ferodo DS2500. I loved the way they worked and the low rotor wear, but they were spongy. I switched to Hawk HT-10 and the pedal was rock hard compred to the Ferodo set.

[Def]

7/8"(stock) MC might give you a slightly spongy brake pedal, but it's all personal preference.

You can also go with 1.38" pistons instead of the 1.63" piston version I linked. That might work better with a stock MC and a bias valve to control overall bias. I imagine 1.38" pistons would give you a nice stiff pedal with a 7/8" MC.

[Def]

$15 shipping covers anywhere in the US. International shipping is more of course.

[SOneThreeCoupe]

The fiancee is threatening harm to my man-bits if I order this now because it will cut down on the money for our honeymoon.

Wait, she told me she wanted me to get back on the track. Son of a... Women and their double standards.

Will there be a way to order the hat and bracket separately, at a later date, for similar money? If not, I'll just wear a cup.

Edit: Sorry if this is answered earlier. Just ignore me if it was and I'll find it in the thread tonight.

[Matt93SE]

Just man up and buy it. don't tell her. ship it to your work.

(I have a separate bank account for my car toys... I put all my mileage and work expense reimbursement checks into that account. wife never sees it. ;) )

[SoSideways]

Oh you sly dog you.

[Tower240sx]

There will be some spares made so some kits may be available for a short time period after the group buy, pricing will be similar but I'll leave that up to DEF....Im just the greasy machinist here anyhow...

[2Fass240us]

I put all my mileage and work expense reimbursement checks into that account. wife never sees it. ;)Glad I'm not the only one trying to subvert wifey financial rule. :)

[McCoy]

Glad I'm not the only one trying to subvert wifey financial rule. :)
Make 3 of us, lol.

As Matt, I keep a seperate checking account just for the car/track day spending... makes it harder for the other 1/2 to earmark it for something else, or complain about how much is being spent, lol.

[Def]

There will be some spares made so some kits may be available for a short time period after the group buy, pricing will be similar but I'll leave that up to DEF....Im just the greasy machinist here anyhow...

This. There will be some spares made just because it's far easier to crank a few extra out during the run than go back and do setup again(or at least that's how I understand machine shop ripof... I mean pricing structure :D).

But yea, if your man bits will be harmed, there will be a few extras at the end. There is no way to say how long they'll hang around though, and I personally(as well as my GF) hate having lots of unsold car parts hang out at my house for months on end. So I don't aim to have a ton of these hanging around.

[Equinox]

Last question from me I promise. :P

Why did you choose the Internal Superlite caliper over the ones with the external cross-over tube?

[Def]

Last question from me I promise. :P

Why did you choose the Internal Superlite caliper over the ones with the external cross-over tube?

They're cheaper, you don't have to worry about a L/R side, and most importantly, the external crossover tube ones have been superceded by the internal crossover calipers AFAIK.

[Equinox]

Ah fair enough.

Do you not attach the brake line to the strut like the stock setup?

[Matt93SE]

I use a 45* adapter on mine and run the hose in the same direction as stock hose.

[Def]

Ah fair enough.

Do you not attach the brake line to the strut like the stock setup?

I've got a 90 deg elbow on there now, but a 45 would probably fit better. Have it zip tied to the bottom of the strut.

[Bumnah]

01.) Will there be a group buy again at a later time? I want to buy but there are other parts of the car that need more attention.
02.) If I do buy will I get a special "Def" signed copy or a lime green hat powder coating option.
03.) Will you whisper sweet nothings into my ear?

[Geno]

Just paid for mine. Forgot to add a note of who I am, cmr750 is me.

[Def]

01.) Will there be a group buy again at a later time? I want to buy but there are other parts of the car that need more attention.
02.) If I do buy will I get a special "Def" signed copy or a lime green hat powder coating option.
03.) Will you whisper sweet nothings into my ear?

1. Maybe, but in my experience, once the "initial rush" of demand is met, there is probably not enough interest for a while to justify a GB run.

2. Signatures are $20(I'm major league y0!), and the Zilvia-spec powdercoating edition was a super-secret surprise for v2.3. Since you ruined it, I'll have to devise something else even more garrish to easily clue people in that this in fact a modified part from 500 ft away.

3. $5.99 for each minute of steamy car technical talk up to 20 minutes, $4.99 for each minute after that. Long distance charges may apply.

[Bumnah]

Damn it. Such bad timing. This is too good of a deal to pass up. Sign me up. I'll paypal tonight when I get home.

[SoSideways]

I'm going to wait until 11:59pm tomorrow night to PayPal Deffy.

[Def]

Added you Bumnah.

Tons of people are having heartburn over the deadline, so how about I extend it out to next week. So the new deadline is Friday 9-10. I'll probably not be around much next weekend(11th and 12th) since I'll be putting the Wilwoods through their paces at Motorsports Ranch all weekend. But I hope that gives some people more time to turn more tricks or do-whatcha-gotta-do if they're worried about meeting the payment deadline.

[Def]

Also going to add some cooler features I designed into the stuff since most people are accustom with the rough details now. Too many product details up front just confuses people in my experience, so I kept this technical-detail-lite to start with. Now enjoy the engineering that went into it.

[Bumnah]

I hear these are SOOOOO much better than 2fass2gayus's brake setup.

[2Fass240us]

You are such a fag. You're just going to sell your S13 and drive that M3 anyways.

[Bumnah]

Exige our bust Andy, Exige or bust.

[Def]

Exige our bust Andy, Exige or bust.

I used to have Exige lust until I rode in a fairly modded one(but still NA) on track. It totally killed 99% of the "gotta have it" for the car. It was super underpowered, and it didn't seem to have that much more cornering speed than my car. The guy driving it wasn't great, but he was still good enough for me to write it off as a good car in theory, but just not as stellar as I was thinking it was.

Chassis felt good, but it reminded me of a little bit lighter S2000 with less power. Maybe with a turbo that thing would feel interesting.

[Bumnah]

Great steering feel, good brake pedal feedback, and most importantly, fun to drive. It hits it on all those marks. I have no problems pointing a geo metro by as long as I have a smile on face the whole time.

Money sent. Stupid car took money out of my pocket out of no where.

[mattah]

Put the K20A into an Elise and then a blower if you need more power. I was all lined up to buy a K20A powered one (S1) when I was in the UK a year or so ago. Then my visa renewal got turned down and I couldn't return, so I have to settle for an S13 for now. :(

Paypal will be in nowishly. I kinda forgot.

[Black R]

Ya k20 and blower :)

Or s13 haha

[turtl631]

Def, your engineering info that you added pretty much blows every other FS post I've seen out of the water. Cool to see the though process that goes into a part like this- I think we're all learning a bit about how engineering works in general. Except for Andy, he's just pouting. At least things worked out on V8swap.com! :D

[2Fass240us]

Shiiiit. What Ross doesn't know, is that I was consulted in the design of this product.

Srsly. U guys. Are assholes. But I like (most of) you.

[Def]

Shiiiit. What Ross doesn't know, is that I was consulted in the design of this product.

Srsly. U guys. Are assholes. But I like (most of) you.

I did talk with Andy a bit so I didn't have to take a wheel off and look in the wheelwell for initial brain storming. :D

It's all good though, the more well thought out parts for the S chassis the better.

[Def]

Someone asked the question about bracket hardware in a PM, so I thought I'd address that here(and in the initial post).

The bracket uses your stock bolts on the spindle side, and I provide the hardware on the caliper side.

This is a bolt-it-in and go kit once you source the other parts I linked. You do not need anything else besides a set of brake pads of your choice. I'd estimate install time will be about 30-60 mins per side. It's just like installing any other set of brakes with the exception that you have 8 bolts and nuts per rotor to tighten.

[2Fass240us]

the more well thought out parts for the S chassis the better.+Juan

[Bumnah]

Def, I see you have a few spots still open. Are you going to make a Group buy thread on zilvia as well? Or is this just for the cool kids?

[turtl631]

I think the number of buyers is about equal to the number of active users on this forum :p

[Def]

Def, I see you have a few spots still open. Are you going to make a Group buy thread on zilvia as well? Or is this just for the cool kids?

I had a huge headache with both the GBs on Zilvia I put on. Plus $35 for 1 month of posting seems steep given the amount of handholding the average Zilvia poster needs.

Feel free to spread the word to other forums if you think they'd be interested, though. Might be a good push to get them to register here and partake of the good beer discussion. :D

[Sleepy_Steve]

Or water down this place with a bunch of people who can't read...

[oldschoolrice]

Count me in, please!

I can read and write!

[Black R]

I gotta ask Def: how do they feel on track?

[Def]

I gotta ask Def: how do they feel on track?

I can tell you tomorrow afternoon.

[Equinox]

In for results. :D

[Ruff Ryder 6]

same here

[spent]

Is it too late to get in on this?

[Def]

Is it too late to get in on this?

I'm a forgiving guy - I'll let you in. :D

[Def]

So update on trackworthiness - the brakes work great. The HT-10/HP+ combo I'm running is another story - great braking power, but they are *LOUD* on track. I was getting slightly annoyed with the whining/squeal 10 times a lap.

Thought I'd throw up this budget baller pic:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7844/msrc31911002.jpg



Overall though, brakes are great. Much easier to modulate with a larger rotor than the 11" Z32 rotor, and the bias felt good with a 1" Z32 MC. Really the only thing that was even remotely negative was the constant noise from the front and rear pads(not really a brake hardware problem). My DTC-60s were silent, so for $138 from LPIracing, I'm thinking they're a little more liveable.

[SoSideways]

Looks hot. Pun intended.

[turtl631]

Hopefully with all the kits going out, we'll get some good pad reviews, and the issue with Z32 brakes being a bit on the small side for the power of many of these cars won't matter.

[SoSideways]

So Def, you have Z32 rears to go along with those Wilwood fronts?

Or do you still have the stock S13 rears on the car?

[Def]

I have Z32 rears with HP+ - they would randomly squeal while on track, slightly annoying.

[SoSideways]

Roger that.

So yeah, you like how I paid at almost midnight on Friday? lol

I actually did it at the McD's parking lot hahaha

[Bumnah]

I actually did it at the McD's parking lot hahaha


That's what she said.

[Ando]

For anybody planning to order from summit, they don't stock the calipers. You have to order, then they order them from wilwood, THEN they ship them to you. I ordered on 9/9 and they are scheduled to ship on 9/23, so figure about 2 weeks delay.
Just so nobody is surprised by the wait.

Soon, I'll be running the complete line of Defworks (Defwerks?) products.
I wonder if there is any contingency money if I run the sticker?

[2Fass240us]

All of Gheycob's money will be tied up in bearings. :)

[Tower240sx]

I'm starting the brackets on the first operation tonight...If Def doesn't get back to me on what he wants engraved on the parts I'll start taking suggestions.....

[SoSideways]

Skull and cross bones?

A heart?

How about the Halo Legendary badge? Oh wait, that might cost more to engrave than the brackets themselves...

[McCoy]

"Budget Baller"

[Sleepy_Steve]

pedo bear image

[Bumnah]

Barney from The Simpsons since we all talk about beer on this forum.

[Def]

"Budget Baller"

I'm liking this...

The more I think on it, too much "works" happening in the world today. I think the new nomenclature will be "DefSport."

So I'm thinking "Budget Baller Wilwood FSL by DefSport and Skullworks".

I'll get you the files later tonight Mike. 10 hrs of sleep over the weekend and heat index of 105 at the track knocked me out last night.

[Matt93SE]

puss. get out there and do some 2.5 hr driving stints in that heat like I did during LeMons. yeah buddy. dehydration FTW!

[Def]

I'm thinking my boosted SR that just so happens to be spewing exhaust right in front of the firewall is a bit warmer than your 72 whp wonder. :D

That thing seriously roasts from the exhaust heat.

[Sleepy_Steve]

Melting your shoes yet?

[Matt93SE]

Mine melted my shoes until I put 3 layers of DEI heat shield on the bottom of the car. now it's only toasty.

Plus we weren't in my car. I was LeMoning in a Miata.

[Def]

Mine melted my shoes until I put 3 layers of DEI heat shield on the bottom of the car. now it's only toasty.

Plus we weren't in my car. I was LeMoning in a Miata.

I know, that's why I called it the 72 whp wonder. Your S14 would be the 97 rwhp wonder. :p

[Geno]

I vote this. Can work on it some more, for some reason the Def Sport section hated being sunk into the background and kept dropping the shadow in PS, but you get the idea.

http://airepoweraviation.com/pictures/Defsport.jpg

[Bumnah]

I want the skull and bones on my brakes, but change the writing to "Palin 2012" on mine.

[Def]

haha - I'm thinking there'd be a price increase for an hour of CNC engraving on each bracket. I do like the photoshop though, even if the skull looks a little happy(somebody playing with his bone???).

[turtl631]

I think they should just say "Budget Baller." Everyone who needs to know will understand.

That skull & crossbones logo is rubbing me the wrong way. I don't want to be mean, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Tower240sx]

My fiance would kill me as she is a graphic designer and has created me a very nice skull to use associated with my name

[Def]

No skulls on these pieces - I run a tight ship. No paying for Mike to go all arts and crafts on my stuffs!!!

[Geno]

I think they should just say "Budget Baller." Everyone who needs to know will understand.

That skull & crossbones logo is rubbing me the wrong way. I don't want to be mean, so I'll just leave it at that.

Be mean, I was bored out of my mind waiting at the dmv and drew it on my phone. BE MEAN.

It was meant as a joke anyway :P

TBH I'd prefer no logo, and just the text like Def had written, in Courier new font that almost all engineer types I've encountered seem to love. It seems more in touch with the budget baller design.

[Tower240sx]

The CAM software likes moorpark best...and I only engrave in CAPS...to save money to feed starving civic owners in New Guinea.

I got the 1st operation on the brackets dialed in last night, got about 5 run, should run the rest (of this side of this part tonight..)

Is there any interest in CNC money shots, or is that too fan boy for this crowd?

PS I don't care I'll post 'em anyhow... later

[koeprototypes]

Well I am using jdm S14 big brakes.I want to up grade to a 6 pistons in the front which is the same as the R33 skyline brakes and hub Assembly.I now wilwood makes super lite brakes.Do this calipers bolt on the Z32?

[McCoy]

Do this calipers bolt on the Z32?
Seeing as how the Z32 calipers bolt onto the S13/S14 with no real issues, it's 100% safe to assume that Def's brackets will bolt onto a Z32.

[SoSideways]

R33s had 6 piston front brakes?

I was not aware they were THAT baller...?

[Tower240sx]

....um I don't recall that being the case...no

[koeprototypes]

No I want to install some wilwood six piston calipers in the front.Mine is now a four piston.Same as the R33
My rims are 17x10 front.can I fit a 12 or 13 rotor set up like that wilwoods?

[Tower240sx]

Generally the crowd here is a little more tuned in to the overall function of their setup vs. the more is always better philosophy 6 pistons is just a brake biasing problem waiting to happen.

Will the rotor setup fit under 17's? yes, they will clear alot of 16's im sure, these are not super baller brakes they are marginally larger than the z32 setup (same setup as your S14 K's brakes)

The idea behind this package is decreasing the overall cost of replacement parts for track oriented vehicles. while minimizing unsprung weight on the cheap.

[Matt93SE]

To answer the question, yes.. 6 piston calipers and 13" rotors will fit just fine under a 17" wheel. but it won't do you any more better than a properly sized 4 piston setup.

I'm only running bolt ons, but Wilwood dynalites (tiny 4 piston calipers) have done the job for years on my car with race compound pads and R32 rotors.
I've since switched to a 2 pc version of the same size rotor for weight savings (about 6-7lb per rotor), but the rotors themselves would last 2-3 years of frequent track use before the surface cracks got bad enough I was scared not to replace them.

nonetheless, the brake setup here will do you just fine up to about 500hp and slicks. it's all about the pad selection with these calipers.

[e1_griego]

It's better for the touge....



bro.

[Def]

No I want to install some wilwood six piston calipers in the front.Mine is now a four piston.Same as the R33
My rims are 17x10 front.can I fit a 12 or 13 rotor set up like that wilwoods?

Brake bias is fine with the Billet Superlite-6 Wilwoods. Actually a hair closer to stock. There is a 0.020" inboard movement of the caliper relative to the centerline of the rotor(rotor won't be exactly centered on the rotor). 0.020" is so small it's likely you'd never notice. There would also be a 0.040" pad overhang(probably not an issue) with the 6 piston caliper on 12.19" rotors.

No idea why Wilwood changes things around slightly - I'd think there's no reason to not keep those dimensions the same between calipers. At least the pads are the same between the calipers.

That said, the main reason I didn't advertise the fact that the Billet Superlite-6 calipers would "work" with these brackets and hats when using 12.19x1.25" rotors is that the dimensions are not exact, and the big factor is you're looking at about $200-250 more per caliper.

I think the Wilwood Superlite-6 is a pretty nice caliper, but nothing make it much better than the FSL-4 IMO.

[2Fass240us]

I think the Wilwood Superlite-6 is a pretty nice caliper, but nothing make it much better than the FSL-4 IMO.I just went on the Wilwood site to look at the selection of 6-piston calipers, as (IIRC) the FSL only had one piston combination but the Billet SUperlite 6-piston had multiple ones. I could swear that there used to be more piston combinations available in the various calipers (Superlites, Dynalites, etc.) compared to what is offered now.

EDIT: Apparently I am crazy.

It's better for the touge....

bro.i LAWLed

I'm starting to have my doubts, bro.

[Def]

They have all the usual suspects that I saw a few minutes ago. A few in the forged superlite internal(1.38/1.62/1.75 are the only ones you'd want to use on an S chassis front, and most would require quite a bit of work), and 1-2 in the Superlite-6. They have different piston sizes for the leading/trailing pistons, but the piston area is the same for almost all of the 6 pistons AFAIK.

[Bumnah]

It's better for the touge....



bro.

I too "LAWLed".

[koeprototypes]

..........Yeah I kind of wondered about that since tho...
The brakes from the r33 isn't that bad at all.But I'm afrid they can only take so much heat.I have no problem keeping a 4 piston set up.I don't sell wilwood here so I think I will need to check that up.I will take the rotors and brackets tho.
as well as a rear set.

[McCoy]

No rear sets available... Z32's work just fine

[Tower240sx]

These parts are in process (obviously)

This shows the engraving and threaded holes, I will then place the parts on a fixture that locates on 2 5/16 holes and bolt thru the threaded holes to finish the profile and backside chamfer/engraving

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/IMG_1404.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/IMG_1400.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/IMG_1407.jpg

[Def]

Gross? Is that the new slang for awesome like bad in the 80's = really good? :D

[McCoy]

Those must be the special edition set just for you, Jacob :D

[turtl631]

I don't think that's a "G" at the beginning, it looks more like some super secret symbol. Followed by the name "ROSS".

Must be my special ones.

[koeprototypes]

So they are not available right now?

[Def]

You have a tentative spot now.

As of now, every spot for the material ordered is FILLED. There are no more spots. If there's enough interest in the future another run could be done.

We should have a better idea on when the kits will be ready to be shipped later in about 3 weeks.

[Def]

BTW - would everybody that's following this thread please check your name on the first thread and make sure you are included. THAT IS THE OFFICIAL LIST! Now that the GB is full, a check by everybody to make sure the list is correct is greatly appreciated. It gets a bit hard to keep track of things with this many people.

[Bumnah]

I'm sweet 16 baby! On and paiiiid.

[2Fass240us]

I'm sweet 16 baby! On and paiiiid.You're "sweet," alright. Like this guy:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/2Fass240us/FunnyChit/christopher_lowell_chair.jpg

[Matt93SE]

More like this guy...
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/gay-pride-parade.jpg

[Bumnah]

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Finally Andy you made me "lawl".

[Tower240sx]

:-(

I'm sad for that guy

[No Rotr]

So do we have a confirmed yes or no on clearance with 16" wheels

[Matt93SE]

It all depends on your particular wheels. I have a set that will fit no problem, and I have another set that will absolutely not fit.

[Def]

So do we have a confirmed yes or no on clearance with 16" wheels

Depends on your wheels. You need at least 6.85" radius of clearance, or 13.7" of diametrical clearance.

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl225.pdf

It's all there on the 2nd page.

[Equinox]

Woot!

http://www.users.on.net/~logon/s14/parts/wilwood1_s.jpg

[McCoy]

This reminds me that I need to order my calipers and lines :)

[Bumnah]

Damn that's sexy!

[Equinox]

Are your calipers FSL Internals Def? The Internals only come in Silver. I wish mine were black. :P

[Def]

Yes mine are internal and black. The pic you posted has black calipers?

[annoyed]

Yes mine are internal and black. The pic you posted has black calipers?

How long ago did you pick up your calipers, if i remember seeing posts awhile back with them in it, earlier this year.

It seems, Wilwood is only offering the caliper in "Platinum E" finish :rolleyes:. Which looks to be the finish on the calipers Equinox received.

no bueno, oh well.

[Def]

I think I finally got them around June-July. They were on back order for about 2 months...

[Equinox]

Yes mine are internal and black. The pic you posted has black calipers?

The photo makes them look darker than they are. They are indeed the Platinum E finish. Might look to get them coated black some day.

[Def]

Mine might be the same. I honestly never really thought about it. They're a dark dark grey anodize. I kind of like it, it reminds me of a dark hard anodize(which is probably what it is).

[SoSideways]

Just checked. I'm lucky number 13, paid in full for the brackets and 5 lug hats, as well as a hardware kit.

[wave_s13]

Mine might be the same. I honestly never really thought about it. They're a dark dark grey anodize. I kind of like it, it reminds me of a dark hard anodize(which is probably what it is).

It looks like the calipers are black from the pictures you posted on the first page.

[SoSideways]

But they are not.

With better lighting (those are the ones where a flash seemed to have been used only inches away from the actual calipers lol) the calipers that Def have seem to be a dark gun metal color...

[Bumnah]

Any eta on these bloody **** tits?

[Def]

Stupid NASA was stealing our machine time, but it seems things are back on track. Hope to have some more firm progress in a week or so.

[SoSideways]

Stupid NASA was stealing our machine time, but it seems things are back on track. Hope to have some more firm progress in a week or so.

It was to prepare for this mission wasn't it? (http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-relaunches-astronaut-jim-lovell-to-finish-the,18200/)








<3 The Onion lol :D

[Tower240sx]

No,


This one OCO2 (http://oco.jpl.nasa.gov/)


I lost the Lovell bids :-(

[SoSideways]

Bah, your link was all serious and stuffs.

hahahaha

[Tower240sx]

...I wasn't kidding... :(

[SoSideways]

I know you weren't, you serious bear.

[Tower240sx]

I'm not a bear that's just slander...

I am however a serious A$$hole

ask Manonegra...he loves to tell people about it

[Tower240sx]

I have completed the machine work on the Brackets themselves, My wonderful Fiance is gonna bring me food tonight so I can get the setup dialed in for the Hats.

You'z guyz should be getting wet by now...

[Equinox]

I just had to go change my panties.

[Def]

I guess Equinox called first in line for the machine shop gangbang...


"uhhh... yea... I'm here for the gangbang???"

:D

[annoyed]

mmmm metalz. :D

[ManoNegra]

I'm not a bear that's just slander...

I am however a serious A$$hole

ask Manonegra...he loves to tell people about it

Believe it or not, this is his charming side

where's the endmill carnage?

[Buddha]

I'm hangin out for some pics as well! :P

[Def]

Yea Mike - PICS! :D

I've got a retardedly expensive hardware order coming my way. I'm going to make it rain with $200 worth of belleville washers when they get in... PERMANENTLY DEFORMED WASHER UP IN DA HOUSE YO!!!

[Buddha]

Maybe they'll come in handy for the gang bang?

[Def]

Maybe they'll come in handy for the gang bang?

Good thinking. I'll use their allure to jump to the front of the line. :p

[2Fass240us]

I'm going to make it rain with $200 worth of belleville washers when they get in.This humor would only elicit LAWLs for a small group of people. Thankfully, I'm all up in it.

[Tower240sx]

CNC PrOn

Look at all the shininess
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/240sx_god/photo.jpg

[SoSideways]

You know what would be real cool?

To have our screen names engraved on the set of brackets that we bought.

That would be baller.

Oh well, too late now lol

[2Fass240us]

That would also add eleventy dollhairs per bracket.

No anodize picture, no care. :)

[Def]

Did you just set up the brackets next to an overflowing port-a-potty???

[Tower240sx]

close enough.....that's the side of the CNC machine actually

mmmmmm coolant

[Buddha]

Did you just set up the brackets next to an overflowing port-a-potty???

hahahahaha! They look amazing!

[Matt93SE]

You're missing one bracket. Just thought I'd let you know in case you can't count by two...

[Tower240sx]

The last part was in The Machine for that Picture...

And I can't count by 2 that's why I stack my $hit...frankly I can't count at all