A Time Attack Vehicle? Road Race Vehicle?? [Archive]

SoSideways

12-01-2009, 06:42 AM

They always say their ****'s build for like, the "World's Fastest Car Around The Track" events or whatever, but they never are. They're just built for an article, and that's it.

BTW I know one of the guys that helped that guy build the car. I gave him poop for the horrid wheel fitment. They probably said that it was for "time attack" or whatever because the owner didn't want to lower the car so he could daily it (I'm pretty sure that was the truth) without scraping.

2Fass240us

12-01-2009, 06:58 AM

I personally think the best part of this build is the 18 x 10" and 18 x 13" Work Meisters paired with OEM Z32 brakes front and rearIt makes my head spin when I see a higher-dollar build like this with NO attention given to the brakes. Far too many people undervalue a good brake setup.

Bumnah

12-01-2009, 07:13 AM

A.) Too pretty to race.
B.) That's as time attack as my mom's Honda Accord.

Show car through and through.

McCoy

12-01-2009, 08:32 AM

rollbar painted purple with glitter
giant drifter style shift knob
.
.
.
.
yeah

Your Mom

12-01-2009, 09:09 AM

cusco zero-2r coilovers

too ashamed to post dyno

"this 240SX is a horse of a different color." flat black is a different color

iLL Garage

12-01-2009, 09:21 AM

I find it amazing (SoSideways) that you bash us on every occasion you have on the internet, however I digress. I do appreciate your input even though its negative.

I understand not everyone is going to appreciate the car, I have no problem with that. The car is far from complete. The day it rolled into HIN, the paint was still literally curing, not wet sanded, and a couple of other odds and ends including the ride height and tire setup. What I've tried to do with this car is incorporate a lot of ideas other people have done along with give it my own taste. With about $13-15k in the car, I would hardly call this a BIG BUDGET BUILD. Lots of things could have been done better on the car, however I will be driving it and functionality was more important to me then getting certain things perfect.

I do admit, that I don't have a lot of experiance with "Time Attack" or road racing, but I'm willing to learn and willing to learn with THIS car. It just so happened that Super Street liked it, in addition to a few other people out there. I didn't build the car STRICTLY for road race, lets get that straight. Let just say I didn't build it for DRIFT! Not That I don't like it, its just not for me.

Thanks again for all the feed back, even though you all hate me, lol!

LOL @ the shift knob. I needed to sell them, I have too many in stock.

a_ahmed

12-01-2009, 09:32 AM

rollbar painted purple with glitter
giant drifter style shift knob
.
.
.
.
yeah
This LOL.

This is as drift inspired hard park daily as it gets.... I have no doubt it can move though but yeah :-/ Nothing wrong with the guy's effort though cmon... not everyone has to have a banged up ride like many of us (including myself) do lol... All go and no show haha...

Should give me the wheels though lol.

Edit: honestly the only thing that bothers me is the glittered roll cage... just wtf.... otherwise nice car. And the tires are stretched... which is a waste of wheel... and still doesn't fit right if going in that direction (fix that)....and the dildo knob and roar brown jdm furry creature (these things speak drift land memories)

McCoy

12-01-2009, 09:35 AM

I don't think most of us were hating, maybe giggling from the thought of it being called a Time Attack car, which seems to get thrown out there way to much these days. Clearly this looks to be more of a show car than anything else, but that's just my opinion.

iLL Garage

12-01-2009, 09:37 AM

hahahah well, we forgot to paint the cage when the glass was out so we couldn't cover all of the bars... doh! Won't ever make that mistake again hahaha.

Again, I don't take criticism to heart. I built the car to best of my ability and yes it is pretty flashy and somethings I probably would have done differently. But all in all, i'm happy with it so far and can't wait to see what it does functionally.

Thanks again.

a_ahmed

12-01-2009, 09:39 AM

What tires are you running? Brand/model/sizes? Curious. No spacers I assume. I like the negative offset craziness lol :D I'd wana fit some 335s on them 13" wide rims lol but I think that still would look stretched... if its a street tire anyways... Could be able to fit a 345 on there and make it square i think.

Another compliment: I like the flocked dash. I'll be doing that to my chopped up one lol.

iLL Garage

12-01-2009, 09:46 AM

Its actually a swede cover. I would like to learn how to flock, ****s looks nice.

As much as I wanted to stay away from the "DRIFT" theme, I have to admit it does have a lot of it. I do like how some of the cars out there look, I don't think its ideal for true racing.

As of right now, i'm running a 235/40/18 up front and a 335/40/18 in the back. It looks like I will be changing to a maybe a 315 or a 285 or something smaller. I'm clearing the rear and now I can drop the car lower, but the camber is STUPID nasty negative. So its a choice of run it the way it is with the -300 camber or smaller tire size. URGH,

a_ahmed

12-01-2009, 09:49 AM

Bro u shoulda thought about that prior to doing the body work :-/ U need to run wider body work... Maybe (would look ugly) run some of those 20-30mm flap overs like the old z cars... eeh but that may look ugly.

The front yes please go wider... thats just a waste of a wheel... on a 10 ya just run a 285/30/18... the 13" wide rim is honestly f*n huge... thats for a 345 size tire... running a 315 will be mad stretched... waste of wheel... as is assuming its a 335 it looks stretched (street tire im guessing anyways).

I'm assuming you meant to say 335/30/18 not 40 profile...

lol... what i have planned is something around this... but i will be running bn blister wide body front and rear thats 50mm front and 70mm rear...

275/35/18 is a dumb size go with 285/30/18 or 295/30/18 (25" tall like stock).... you will most likely rub.... make sure to take care of all that as well... thats a big prob with s13s up front...

Bumnah

12-01-2009, 09:56 AM

I don't think most of us were hating, maybe giggling from the thought of it being called a Time Attack car, which seems to get thrown out there way to much these days...

I'll go one step further, "time attack" is just a marketing term at best, to me.

iLL Garage

12-01-2009, 10:07 AM

I originally had 275 up front and still running the 335's.

BN Blister kit would have been ideal and still would have taken some work to fit, but your overfender with overfender idea, that was the original plan as well, but we bowed the Origin Fenders as far as we could and thought it would make it... it didn't.

SoSideways

12-01-2009, 10:11 AM

Tommy, I bash your **** cause you didn't think things through before you just went and did it.

Building it in 3 days... did you have to meet some deadline?

Should have known how the wheels were gonna fit before you even bought them, so that whole "well it doesn't fit" excuse is kinda... inexcusable?

BTW I've had that same shift knob in my car for years. Like, since '04? It's actually pretty awesome.

Yes, $13-15k into that car isn't a lot, but it was just done so hastily, almost seemed like it was a drunken decision one night to just put a shell together in 3 days, and thus a lot of things didn't come out the greatest, and then some stuff were made up for the article for Super Street... which is why this thread was started to begin with, cause a lot of stuff just didn't sound right.

Nothing against you Tommy, but even you admitted that the car could be better.

In any case, say hi to Kevin for me, and I look forward to further development on the car in the future.

iLL Garage

12-01-2009, 10:38 AM

Not sure if you ever tried to fit a 18x13, -36 wheel on a 240, but its pretty hard. I assure that it was NOT rushed. It was fitted to the best of our ability. Sorry you don't like it or thought that you could have done a better job. I do look forward to what you have coming out of your garage though. Hopefully its a lot nicer then what we did.

SoSideways

12-01-2009, 10:50 AM

My wheels will fit, I can tell you that lol

Maybe the front will look a little funny, but the rears are gonna fit fine :)

a_ahmed

12-01-2009, 10:57 AM

Stop being dicks to one another.... lets love one another lol.

SoSideways

12-01-2009, 11:01 AM

I'm not being a dick. Stating facts here...

Your Mom

12-01-2009, 11:14 AM

dyno please

stewiefied

12-01-2009, 11:29 AM

You have to admit ill garage took all the criticism pretty well. He didn't blowup like anyone on nico would have. Some people have to realize that there will always be someone out there that doesn't like your car. There's a lot of people that give my car crap because it's not dragging frame, and that my tires are supposed to go on a 9" wheel.

SoSideways

12-01-2009, 12:09 PM

He built that car for him, and likes it the way it is for him, so that's good.

Blowing up on the interwebz if people diss your car is kinda pointless... I mean, what are you gonna do? Throw some e-punches?

Anywho, like I said, I can't wait to see what Tommy is gonna do to improve the car.

Could be good, could be bad, but as long as he likes it, the kittens will still sleep soundly at night.

Your Mom

12-01-2009, 12:19 PM

dyno pretty please? time slip?

Basic1

12-01-2009, 12:29 PM

It makes my head spin when I see a higher-dollar build like this with NO attention given to the brakes. Far too many people undervalue a good brake setup.

THANK YOU. I love this forum eleventy billion times more. Slogan time!!:

"Nissan Road Racing Forums: Great Minds Think Alike"

Basic1

12-01-2009, 12:53 PM

Actually read all the posts, and I must say it's impressive that this thread is three pages deep already, LOL.

In my quest to Google something completely different, yet 240sx-related, I happened upon this vehicle, and it really hurt to see those miniature brake rotors hiding behind some exceptionally large wheels.

I am glad to hear the car is not finished yet, and I do hope some good R&D goes into a formidable brake setup.

Overall, I think seeing massive wheels and unmatched brakes, and then seeing a major publication dub it a "time attack" vehicle (note to ill Garage: if that wasn't your discretion for S.S. mag to label your car as such, you should take issue with them; if you knew they would label it as such and didn't care, that might be why so many are taking harsh issue with the vehicle), and then seeing a lack of engineering in chassis and powertrain execution, it raised some questions (and conclusions) pretty quick.

Basic1

12-01-2009, 01:08 PM

On a more constructive note: what are your plans for the chassis and handling setup? Have you talked to any road course instructors about your setup and sought their consult (I'm assuming since you're learning you have or will take some driving lessons in the near future)?

Bumnah

12-01-2009, 01:41 PM

Basic1: You should understand Super Street is trying to sell magazines. The target audience will not notice any of the items we're talking about.

iLL Garage

12-01-2009, 01:46 PM

I guess I'm exactly sure what your questions and conclusions are leading to. 240's in general are NOT considered Time Attack cars so maybe which ever 240's you are refering to (240sxMotoring, Kognition, etc), yup its not your typical setup, i.e., huge wings, diffusers everywhere. Is it cause its too pretty??? I can live with that :P

Personally I think what bothers people the most is that it has an S15 front and wheels that are just plain ridiculous. Its normal for someone to look at that and say... "thats just fricken insane." And to tell the truth I really don't mind that. I haven't built a lot of "Time Attack" (ANY) cars to tell you where things will go wrong, however I have built a few 240's in my day and I do know what works. A lot of my knowledge is personal hands on, not "internet" knowledge.

What brake set up would be ideal? I have used Z32 and stock brakes on a 240 with no iLL effect. We talkin Wilwoods, Endless, and Brembo? Personally I think it needs a lot more attention in the tuning before everything, but yes it has a ways to go.

And for those that think this is an internet argument, its not. I'm actually learning here.

thanks

McCoy

12-01-2009, 02:30 PM

Brakes... It's tough to say what the right brake setup is for any given car. It really comes down to hp/weight, how big and sticky the tires your going to use, and how good of a driver you have behind the wheel.

Big money, just buy Stoptech and never worry about it!

Have money, but want to be conservative, I would think a Wilwood setup (SL4 caliper minimum) up front and the Z32 rears (or wilwoods) would be good enough. The 350Z brembo package would be nice, but is HEAVY and doesn't save you much in costs over the wilwood setup, actually will cost more once you start going through pads/rotors. With the wilwoods you have a large selection of pads (street/track) at lower costs. 2-piece rotors are lighter and better at heat dissipation.

Budget minded, Z32 caliper and Z33 rotors. Better than the Z32 setup, but not idea either. Probably not the way you want to go here.

Why I don't suggest the Z32 setup... track pads for the Z32 caliper are expensive, the rotors are heavy and not that good at disipating the heat so you end up going through rotors/pads pretty fast once you get the speeds up. With the size of tires your running, I'd think you would be taxing these guys out real fast

2Fass240us

12-01-2009, 07:15 PM

Budget minded, Z32 caliper and Z33 rotors. Better than the Z32 setup, but not idea either. Probably not the way you want to go here.Given that he already has the Z32 calipers, he should stick with the Z32 rotors. That is TRUE "budget." My idea of Wilwoods, Z33 track rotors and my brackets is a damn good compromise.

Basic1

12-01-2009, 08:36 PM

Basic1: You should understand Super Street is trying to sell magazines. The target audience will not notice any of the items we're talking about.

I know Bumnah, I know.... :-( hence the reason why I haven't subscribed to their magazine since 2002.

Your Mom

12-01-2009, 08:57 PM

you have a dyno at the ill place?

come on

Basic1

12-02-2009, 05:47 AM

I think he said it has yet to be tuned. With that much meat on the tires though, I hope it's tuned for a good torque curve.

Matt93SE

12-02-2009, 06:57 AM

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 07:12 AM

Guys cmon stop being retarded, seriously. What benefit do we have on picking on the car. At the end of the day it possibly is probably faster than your car. Stop being dicks.

McCoy

12-02-2009, 07:51 AM

Ahmed, no ones being a dick here... we're just turning him to the dark side, that's all ;)

Matt93SE

12-02-2009, 07:57 AM

Who's being a dick? I didn't insult anyone or badmouth anyone or any vehicle. I very carefully chose my words. too many people get butthurt when you talk smack online... and I've been around car forums for about 12 years now.. I've had my share of keyboard wars and don't really give a damn..

2Fass240us

12-02-2009, 08:05 AM

Ahmed, no ones being a dick here...Plus Juan.

If anyone's getting iLL, it's you.

Bumnah

12-02-2009, 08:11 AM

Oh ****. HOLLLLLAAAA!

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 08:11 AM

lol i like that 'keyboard wars'

I'm surprised no one made a poster/flier thing yet

http://billstclair.com/blog/images/melted-keyboard-1084x451.jpg

iLL Garage

12-02-2009, 08:18 AM

No Dyno runs yet, needs tune and more money.

Matt93SE

12-02-2009, 08:25 AM

lol i like that 'keyboard wars'
I'm surprised no one made a poster/flier thing yet
http://billstclair.com/blog/images/melted-keyboard-1084x451.jpg

That's a Mac.. it needs to die. :)

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 08:44 AM

LOL i tell that to my company's graphics/designing department too.... and I have a degree in media and computer animation (yeah ironic i ended up doing IT after getting married). They hate me :D They use outdated once 'powerful' software that is garbage today :D

They keep talking about how great MACs are and I just giggle. At least the 28" mac monitor they have is pretty bad ass :P

iLL Garage

12-02-2009, 09:04 AM

I used to be a designer turned Shop owner... Bad move, lol.

I had PC's for web design and Mac for print, my work station was BALLER! Cinema Display, 3 screen setup..... and I still hated it, lol.

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 09:14 AM

lol@ ur signature

Eh... I mean there's no point using inandated MACs anymore... there's nothing cool about a MAC... not the hardware, not the UNIX backend, NOTHING... its crap LOL.

You can use photoshop, illustrator, aftereffects, 3dsmax, lightwave, maya, solidworks, whatever crap you can imagine on a PC with like dual xeons or even a single core 2 quadro if ur baller enough and rape that mac crap LOL. Hell my home PC has 8GB of DDR3 now for internet browsing LOL.

iLL Garage

12-02-2009, 09:45 AM

Very true. I was computer animation major as well. I went to Columbia College in Chicago. Had lots of fun, but no jobs here in Chicago. Everything is in Hollywood. My Cuz is an animator there and doesn't make jack****.

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 09:50 AM

Yeah I needed money fast... and didnt wana spend 10 years building up a portfolio and being underpaid .... so I needed cash fast being married.... IT being my second alternate set of skills I rolled right into a job. So meh... at the end of the day whatever makes money its all good.

Dream job would be bodybuilding, racing cars, building race cars LOL.... doing things I enjoy plus getting paid = win... but meh... honestly animation is not that fun when you have deadlines and are awake 48hours (literally sometimes) and the client doesn't like the product and you gotta redo the ****... or worse case scenario you lose the work (happened to me lost 80GB of data ****).

SoSideways

12-02-2009, 09:55 AM

You guys realize that you can build a sick PC, and just install the Mac OS onto the comp and run either Windows, Mac, or whatever else OS you want to boot with, right?

There are advantages to using Macs, but for me, those advantages don't really apply to me, as I do not want to turn everything in the house into Apple products, which my friend did, but because he did, he was able to run anything in the house from... well, his iPhone. He can use his iPhone to access his laptop, which gets signal from the wireless router that's also plugged directly into his home entertainment center, so he can change the tunes playing on his home theater system through his iPhone.

Pimp stuff.

Just not pimp enough for me to drop like $3k into.

Bumnah

12-02-2009, 10:05 AM

My computer can technically last me for ever. As long as it open up word, and plays mp3s I'm golden.

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 10:18 AM

meh i have my iphone jailbroken and with a terminal mwahahaha (its basically a unix phone)... whatever everything you can do on the one u can do on the other macs are just pointless today

iLL Garage

12-02-2009, 10:27 AM

2 screens are good for surfing pron.

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 10:38 AM

lol now back to your car's discussion

You better fit some 355s or something on the rear with those 18x13.

Your Mom

12-02-2009, 10:40 AM

hate thread to aahmed flirting with ill. he's just using you for your 335's!! LOL

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 10:40 AM

HAHAHAHAHA meeeooow

iLL Garage

12-02-2009, 11:02 AM

i'll sell them to you :P

Matt93SE

12-02-2009, 11:37 AM

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0903/derailed-train-derailed-thread-demotivational-poster-1237346157.jpg

2Fass240us

12-02-2009, 01:49 PM

ahmed only cybers with ppl online if they have square tires. srsly. u guys.

a_ahmed

12-02-2009, 02:23 PM

You found me out damn you

mmdb

12-02-2009, 06:17 PM

I personally think the best part of this build is the 18 x 10" and 18 x 13" Work Meisters paired with OEM Z32 brakes front and rear:

There's a solution to that right HERE (http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1349)!!! :D :D :D

Bumnah

12-02-2009, 08:03 PM

There's a solution to that right HERE (http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1349)!!! :D :D :D
Do you offer a lay away program?

mmdb

12-02-2009, 08:35 PM

Hmm... hahah... I dunno... You can always get a loan from a bank, or a family member I guess haha.

jmauld

12-03-2009, 06:52 AM

iLL, can you post your own details of your build?

I refuse to read that StuperStreet Crap.

Epstein

12-03-2009, 11:01 AM

600whp turbo. Stock MAF sensor. No **** there's no dyno chart!

Matt93SE

12-03-2009, 11:31 AM

http://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Bumnah

12-03-2009, 08:35 PM

I'm a fan of the open valve cover vent. HOT.

Basic1

12-09-2009, 09:03 AM

I'm not surprised if little things were missed if the car was rushed for a photo shoot.

Hey iLL Garage, keep this post updated man. Don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see the vehicle's evolution from this point, chassis-wise really.

iLL Garage

12-10-2009, 03:30 PM

Its snowing here so I think I have some time before the season hits.

There is a lot I need to do, tune, change tire set up, tune the suspension. I'll post up updates as soon as they are available.

mufflerman

12-13-2009, 08:40 PM

I like it. I wouldn't have built it exactly that way, but isn't that what makes custom cars/homebuilt racers interesting? If everyones car in the paddock looked the same that would be awfully boring. Ill, your a good sport, looking forward to your progress with the car.

ramm

12-14-2009, 01:42 PM

Throw some Z33 rotors and some ducting on the brake setup and you should be good to go..maybe sprinkle a little RBF600 in the lines too.

Rittmeister

12-14-2009, 03:20 PM

I think it's a good start. I don't hate it at all, and ordinarily I'm annoyed by the S15 front conversion - just seems like extra, unnecessary work. This time I'm ambivalent.

On the other hand, that article is some pretty lousy writing.

Cory

12-15-2009, 07:13 AM

I didn't have any problems last track outing with 115mph 2900lb car with Z32 brakes all around, Cobalt Friction XR2s up front/XR3s in the rear, ATE super blue, and front brake ducting.

iLL Garage

12-15-2009, 09:13 AM

I didn't think I would either, but its a lot of rim and a lot of tire. I hate to say it, but I might have to go with a smaller tire to make the whole thing work. We'll be testing different setups to see what works best. I have a Wilwoods waiting if the z32's don't work.

Theres a lot of quirks to be ironed out. I'll be looking to get seat time and dial the car in as needed for next year. Basically just have fun with it.

Cory

12-15-2009, 04:30 PM

Well I am not even on the most aggressive pad. There are still XR1s and Carbotech makes a pad that can stand up to 2000*F, though I don't know what the frictional coefficient is at that point. I also have relatively small ducts compared to what some run.

I would also recommend Castrol SRF for fluid.

240sxTTC

12-15-2009, 05:18 PM

Black R

12-15-2009, 05:38 PM

There's a solution to that right HERE (http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1349)!!! :D :D :D

I guess you're reposting that FS thread?

Anyway, iLL I think you need to check out this thread:

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/166563-maximum-tire-rubber-fitment-thread.html

:)

Def

12-16-2009, 08:52 AM

I use Z32 aluminum front brakes with Hawk DTC-60 compound pads (3" cooling ducts on the front) and stock rears with Hawk blues. I also have a Z32 BMC. The braking and balance are great. I use to run HT-10 pads on the front but switched to the DTC-60's this year. They are excellent pads; dust like crazy but are easy on rotors.

I have dtc-60s too. VERY pronounced friction hump as you get them warm, I've locked the fronts when that has happened and wasn't prepared for it.

How is your overall impression of them vs HT-10s?

charles

12-17-2009, 06:11 AM

They could have at least replaced the waterpump for ~$45 to get rid of that crusty rust on the nose of theirs :)

240sxTTC

12-17-2009, 06:43 AM

I have dtc-60s too. VERY pronounced friction hump as you get them warm, I've locked the fronts when that has happened and wasn't prepared for it.

How is your overall impression of them vs HT-10s?

With cold Hoosiers on the first green lap it's easy to look the fronts with both pad compounds. I agree the DTC-60's seem to have a steeper fricton ramp but the stopping power is definitely better than the HT-10's. They also seem to be more consistent throughout the session.

Matt93SE

12-17-2009, 08:48 PM

Huh.... maybe I never got the HT-10 up to temp, but they always felt rock-solid consistent to me. same coefficient on lap 1 and lap 21..

240sxTTC

12-17-2009, 09:25 PM

Huh.... maybe I never got the HT-10 up to temp, but they always felt rock-solid consistent to me. same coefficient on lap 1 and lap 21..

Yeah... the fade occurred with the turbo motor at Mid-Oh where I would hit 135mph in between turn 1 and 2 then 150mph right after that.

Matt93SE

12-18-2009, 08:27 AM

heh.. I still have the 120mph speed limiter in my car.. I never get above about 110 on any of our tracks though. fastest I've been on track was at Sebring when the only time I hit the speed limiter was when I was drafting a 350Z. without the draft, I'd get to 118.