Discount Tires S13 Build Article

[Umai Kakudo]

WARNING!!!!! Evil Drift Content.

MotoIQ has a good build article on the Discount Tire LS2 S13 resurrection for Dai Yoshihara.

It has some good LS2 install pics and some good info on removing anti squat in the rear for increased traction.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/tabid/59/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1355/On-the-8th-Day--Falken-Tires-S13.aspx

Cliffs Notes:

You're doing it wrong
http://photos.motoiq.com/photos/694289916_XKzxq-O.jpg

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5364/682369435_XmLrP-L.jpg

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5435/682369308_bc6vw-L.jpg

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5393/682368954_5ckkW-L.jpg

G-Force Dog Gear 4 speed. 4" exhaust after the Y
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5422/682369227_sv8sc-X2.jpg

S14 rear subframe (which was not mentioned in the article)
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5421-1/682368946_ZTMFp-X2.jpg

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5427/682369215_TqcHq-L.jpg

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5456/682369174_sdubJ-L.jpg

Drifters don't need much fuel. Accusump is a long way from home.
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5446/682369068_XxNBH-L.jpg

Everyone needs a breather for their rear diff and transmission like this
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5449/682369070_bJBV5-L.jpg

"KRC power steering pump is adjustable for the amount of power assist." That would be nice.
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5441/682369121_ByXy7-L.jpg

Willwood front brakes also use solid rotors on alloy hats. Drift cars brakes need to be powerful and responsive but do not need to do repeated high speed stops, thus the rotor selection is done for light weight and not fade resistance. Many pros also tweak the brake bias to the front so they can control the front and rear slip angles independently between the foot brake and rear hand brake. Lots of left foot braking is used in drifting.
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5477/682369025_Fd9pb-L.jpg

SPL and Battle Version land
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5420/682369261_zoJ2t-L.jpg


The lower arm is adjustable for roll center and anti squat with the roll center being raised to compensate for the cars low ride height. The rear subframe sits on solid SPL Pro bushings. The bushings are adjustable for instant center location and anti squat. The bushings also get rid of squish rubber. The rear antisway bar is an adjustable part from The Progress Group. It uses spherical end link bushings for direct coupling. KW Motorsports 3-way adjustable dampers give the crew a lot of setup flexibility. To improve forward traction, the amount of anti is reduced in the suspension geometry by relocating several links withing the 1" allowed by the FD rules.
(note - Mike is wrong. 2009 rules don't allow for inboard pickup points to be relocated any more. This chassis is grandfathered in)

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5402/682369446_dFzUX-X2.jpg

"The amount of anti is adjustable to some degree quickly by moving the lower arm in one of two positions". I had a hunch that reducing rear anti squat would help with the S chassis annoying tendency to have poor on power grip coming out of corners.

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5404/682369455_MWa2T-L.jpg

"From this angle you can see how the lower arm is spaced down at the spindle. This raises the roll center and quickens the camber curve allowing the suspension to be adjusted for less static negative camber." I never thought the quickend camber curves would actually be a good thing with just lowering the LCA piviot but it makes sense. A lot of drifters are starting out with 0* rear camber and letting the aggressive camber curve take care of the rest.

http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5398/682369365_BUwTC-X2.jpg

According to the KW rep the motorsport 3 and 4 way front dampers for S chassis are monotube and use a bearing instead of a bushing to reduce stiction. I'd really like to see the bearing setup they are using and cycle the damper by hand with no spring or fluid.
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Features/Falken-240SX/JEF5395/682368992_tZvMg-X2.jpg

I love that the pro drift builds are now so technical and every bit as advanced as road racing. Competition has brought the sport from a bunch of beat down hoopties to finely tuned dedicated race cars at the pro level. Only a matter of time until it trickles down with the ProAm level of competition ramping up.

http://photos.motoiq.com/Event-Coverage/Formula-D-Irw/JEF6351/688907367_SimRU-L.jpg

[Just_Wanna_Drive]

Nice find.

[SoSideways]

So they didn't do anything about the toe links in the rear?

Since S-chassis get toe out when the rear suspension is compressed, I figured that they would have relocated the toe link mount on the spindles themselves downward, so that they would get toe in under compression instead of toe out.

[a_ahmed]

the bastards shoulda sponsored me i buy from them LOL sick build, drift = eh...

[Matt93SE]

Maybe they fixed it by relocating the rest of the mounting points- or they just don't care since the rears are always spinning and it doesn't really matter which way they're pointing?

[Epstein]

I don't think you can generalize the toe curve as all "s-chassis". The S14 subframe, which this has, has way less bumpsteer as I measured before.

What I'm curious about is what they're getting out of lowering the anti-squat on an S14 subframe that already has greatly reduced anti-squat over the S13 stocker.

[Ronald So]

I don't know that they care much to setup the vehicle for optimal kinetics.
My personal opinion being around the drift community seems to be, the general drifting community don't have much interest in correcting issues with the suspension. There are very talented fabricators and drivers there but, I believe its mostly driver ability and big balls to commit to tossing the car at 100mph trying to get as close to the wall as possible. (my logic is incompatibly with this idea in that I generally see consequences and financial burden in trying to be good at this way of fun)

Ronald

[SoSideways]

These guys are the pro guys, which are much more interested in suspension, chassis, and engine builds than your grassroots "just to have fun" guys, so yes, I believe they do give a rat's a$$ about their suspension.

As for the rear tires spinning comment, yes it's spinning, but it's also gripping to a point, and having toe in as it compresses will help the car gain speed out of a corner while the wheels are still spinning.

Say what you want, but there are some impressive drift car builds out there, and the guys that have what you guys call a "s**t bucket" that's too low, or have too wide of wheels, or whatever whatever, those guys are amazing drivers, and say what you want, but they have the ability to get their cars to do what they want it to, which some of you are still having issues with, so really, who are you laughing at?

[Def]

These guys are the pro guys, which are much more interested in suspension, chassis, and engine builds than your grassroots "just to have fun" guys, so yes, I believe they do give a rat's a$$ about their suspension.

As for the rear tires spinning comment, yes it's spinning, but it's also gripping to a point, and having toe in as it compresses will help the car gain speed out of a corner while the wheels are still spinning.

But what does that do to corner entry and mid corner handling? With being able to adjust the lengths of other links, you really have no idea what their bumpsteer curve looks like, especially since they relocated at least one link of the suspension.


Say what you want, but there are some impressive drift car builds out there, and the guys that have what you guys call a "s**t bucket" that's too low, or have too wide of wheels, or whatever whatever, those guys are amazing drivers, and say what you want, but they have the ability to get their cars to do what they want it to, which some of you are still having issues with, so really, who are you laughing at?

There's definitely some money put into them, but I wouldn't call the average "drift build" that involves some kid putting some little stitch welds all over the car and then bolting on some super hyped crappy dampers on the car "impressive." Pro teams of course have money and a crew to do some pretty nice things(although I *REALLY* wonder why they are still using the stock steel uprights, that's 12 lbs total unsprung weight sitting back there), but the average, or even above average car I see on Zilvia or Ziptied isn't anything to get excited over. It's typically got a lot of money spent on flashy "name brand" stuff(aero, interior, suspension bits that probably aren't tested etc.), and there is very little work put into the car to make it better beyond bolting on new **** to it.

[SoSideways]

But what does that do to corner entry and mid corner handling? With being able to adjust the lengths of other links, you really have no idea what their bumpsteer curve looks like, especially since they relocated at least one link of the suspension.



There's definitely some money put into them, but I wouldn't call the average "drift build" that involves some kid putting some little stitch welds all over the car and then bolting on some super hyped crappy dampers on the car "impressive." Pro teams of course have money and a crew to do some pretty nice things(although I *REALLY* wonder why they are still using the stock steel uprights, that's 12 lbs total unsprung weight sitting back there), but the average, or even above average car I see on Zilvia or Ziptied isn't anything to get excited over. It's typically got a lot of money spent on flashy "name brand" stuff(aero, interior, suspension bits that probably aren't tested etc.), and there is very little work put into the car to make it better beyond bolting on new **** to it.

I think people should stop talking about race car builds and what not, and go out and drive more, you and I included.

Car builds are cool to see and read about and all, but when a car is being built, it's not being driven, and driving is what we're all about, yes?

[Def]

I think people should stop talking about race car builds and what not, and go out and drive more, you and I included.

Car builds are cool to see and read about and all, but when a car is being built, it's not being driven, and driving is what we're all about, yes?

I drive plenty given other things going on in my life.

Nothing wrong with talking about a build on a car forum... since that is why we're here and all. So please, if all you have to say is "stop discussing this build and other drift cars," then just keep it to yourself.

[Umai Kakudo]

In the '08 season several of the pros were running extreme rear toe in with the idea that it allowed the car to stay settled and more stable when in full drift.

Tanner's 350z had something like 2" to 3" of toe in.

This year it seemed that the trend in the rear was towards 0* toe and 0* static camber for maximum off the line grip and even tire wear.

Remember that the '09 FD rules prohibit modifying the crossmember and suspension pickup points cannot be relocated so they are left to do what they can with control arms.

FD was allowing modifications and replacement of the front uprights for steering modifications (shorten knuckles and aftermarket uprights (GP Sports)) even though that was a bit of gray area.

The rumor is that the 2010 rules will have some significant changes so it will be interesting to see what the teams do.

Remember that drifting is still pretty young and the grassroots competitions are just starting to ramp up. You'll start seeing better engineered builds as the grassroots guys start competing in more local comps and the need for a faster, better handling car is required to win.

[SoSideways]

I drive plenty given other things going on in my life.

Nothing wrong with talking about a build on a car forum... since that is why we're here and all. So please, if all you have to say is "stop discussing this build and other drift cars," then just keep it to yourself.

I said nothing of the sort.

I do find it funny and a bit amusing that anytime anything having to do with "drift" is immediately considered "stupid", or "evil", or whatever.

In the '08 season several of the pros were running extreme rear toe in with the idea that it allowed the car to stay settled and more stable when in full drift.

Tanner's 350z had something like 2" to 3" of toe in.

This year it seemed that the trend in the rear was towards 0* toe and 0* static camber for maximum off the line grip and even tire wear.

Remember that the '09 FD rules prohibit modifying the crossmember and suspension pickup points cannot be relocated so they are left to do what they can with control arms.

FD was allowing modifications and replacement of the front uprights for steering modifications (shorten knuckles and aftermarket uprights (GP Sports)) even though that was a bit of gray area.

The rumor is that the 2010 rules will have some significant changes so it will be interesting to see what the teams do.

Remember that drifting is still pretty young and the grassroots competitions are just starting to ramp up. You'll start seeing better engineered builds as the grassroots guys start competing in more local comps and the need for a faster, better handling car is required to win.

If the teams are running modified knuckles and stuff in the rear, then I guess that could explain why they're running 0 static toe, because if it toes in under compression, that's probably why.

The guys that ran a lot of static toe in probably doesn't have modified knuckles or pickup points, thus they probably toe out under compression.

[Ronald So]

I'm sorry to offend or agitate this thread. Just to give you a background of why I've articulated myself earlier. I started driving 240sx's, and the only car culture/community I knew in mass back then, was drifting. I was involved really to just have a common interest in the car, but the chassis a lot of influences from japan and drifting (hindsight not incredibly interested in the sport, the car yes, fab yes, culture, not so much) . I just realized my interest wasn't really into drifting (too many consequences,parts status, and offset) I was bought to a track day and that was that. This was the only real thing that gave purpose in making decisions in the way my car was modified. Now, nearly everything has perspective and meaning to why I do it. There were too many purchases before I did lapping days that were just to conform with the culture, not understanding why I really needed upgrades I.E.300zx brakes. Brake fade in drifting, never once was makes a concern, I was just compelled from our young knowledge car community.
I just believe my ability now to modify my car maturely is in some type of correlation to my hobby of HPDE events.
-Ronald

[JRas]

what differential is that?

[Longfellow]

I'm betting a J30/Z32 pumpkin, or atleast a J30/Z32 diff cover. I just sold one a week or two ago. Seems they also swapped to an S14 subframe.

[Bumnah]

Pfffsh. No lime green rear sub frame. Amateurs! :rolleyes:

[Def]

That's a Z32 NA rear diff cover.

[JRas]

That's a Z32 NA rear diff cover.

output shafts look different then my s14's